Deanh Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 point is they could sell an awful lot MORE....I lost a BUNCH of F150 deals due to lousy lease payments last month, same with Edges and Escapes....and guess what...same trucks are still here, so what did Ford achieve by being so proud of its product...sales were consequently down last month......thankgod I squeezed a couple of Raptors in there... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 point is they could sell an awful lot MORE....I lost a BUNCH of F150 deals due to lousy lease payments last month, same with Edges and Escapes....and guess what...same trucks are still here, so what did Ford achieve by being so proud of its product...sales were consequently down last month......thankgod I squeezed a couple of Raptors in there... ;-) Sure they could sell more but at a lower profit. Sometimes it makes more business sense to sell fewer at higher ATPs and less incentives - all depends on the circumstances with suppliers, CAFE, plant capacity, etc. - none of which would necessarily make sense to a dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotdog14 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 point is they could sell an awful lot MORE....I lost a BUNCH of F150 deals due to lousy lease payments last month, same with Edges and Escapes....and guess what...same trucks are still here, so what did Ford achieve by being so proud of its product...sales were consequently down last month......thankgod I squeezed a couple of Raptors in there... ;-) Increasing average transaction price by $1,800? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Increasing average transaction price by $1,800? Winner winner chicken dinner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 @Harley Lover....Edge leases aren't competitive either......you mention a $450 payment ( SEL ) to someone, its basically signing them visitation rights to other manufacturers..... Isn't the market out there in Cali really quirky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Isn't the market out there in Cali really quirky? FTFY 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) increasing 1800 is the least of it...ZERO rebates on an F150 lease and a high money factor......Payments on 4x4 platinums were 850 plus..........how does that sit with the guy turning his 3 year old Platinum in that was low 600s..........and yes, Cali is quirky, doesn't mea n buyers are foolish and just lay down for inflated payments, its also the most competitive market in the states....and I believe the LARGEST as well....and PS ....$1800 equates to $75 or so dollars more a month....Ford loses market share enough, for sure they will adjust, but last month was un-necessarily BRUTAL...brand loyalty only gos so far.... Edited April 5, 2017 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 You missed the point Dean. That $1800 adds directly to Ford's revenue and a good portion to Ford's profit. If they're getting record sales and raising ATPs at the same time that's the best of both worlds for Ford. We realize it doesn't help some dealers but that's not really the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) Sorry, ahem.....maybe I missed the context of the threads title..... Im just giving valid reason ( based on what I witnessed ) why sales were down....let me check the title again....nothing about ATP's or profitability.....hmmmm....Maybe it should be re-title...ATP's up $1800.... Edited April 5, 2017 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 Dean: I'll jump in. With ATP's being up $1,800 are dealer profits up as much or anywhere near per unit? Or are margins the same as before? Perhaps that would give everyone a better idea of the position you are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 You missed the point Dean. That $1800 adds directly to Ford's revenue and a good portion to Ford's profit. If they're getting record sales and raising ATPs at the same time that's the best of both worlds for Ford. We realize it doesn't help some dealers but that's not really the point. Maybe Deanh gets paid on commission? A sales decline like Ford's last month is bad news to dealership employees whose incomes depend on how many new vehicles they sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Maybe Deanh gets paid on commission? A sales decline like Ford's last month is bad news to dealership employees whose incomes depend on how many new vehicles they sell. Thanks captain obvious. Of course it matters to Dean but the question was what Ford was getting by limiting incentives and the answer is they're getting more profit and that's why Ford is in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Whatever happened, Ford still managed to sell over 81,000 F Series last month - a lot more than the GM twins combined.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 (edited) @ANTHONY....margins at the dealer level pretty much remain the same, invoices for instance don't change and that's the nucleus of whatever margins dealers make.....point is sales are being lost due to non competitive programs...rates on Superduties just went from 3.9 - 4.9, lease programs on the F-150 are NOT very enticing, and $1800 ATP improvement means NOTHING in the big picture, lost sales DO...they want market leadership, they HAVE to be in the ballpark....the Edge programs also have me scratching my head...Ford has also nixed RCL renewal ? theres some strange counter intuitive thinking as of late...so riddle me this, if ATPs are up to $1800, whats better , 1 sale with that 1800, or TWO at say 1200?so, ARE they making more profit?.....Of course Ford doesn't care what the dealer sells the car for, their money is made irrespective, but stagnating sales ( and I repeat the title of this thread is SALES DOWN ) through questionable "incentive programs " seems counter intuitive....and to underline my point, sit abck and watch...continued market share lost and BAM, programs WILL change.....if you don't sell cars it doesn't matter what ATPs are.. Edited April 6, 2017 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 @ANTHONY....margins at the dealer level pretty much remain the same, invoices for instance don't change and that's the nucleus of whatever margins dealers make.....point is sales are being lost due to non competitive programs...rates on Superduties just went from 3.9 - 4.9, lease programs on the F-150 are NOT very enticing, and $1800 ATP improvement means NOTHING in the big picture, lost sales DO...they want market leadership, they HAVE to be in the ballpark....the Edge programs also have me scratching my head...Ford has also nixed RCL renewal ? theres some strange counter intuitive thinking as of late...so riddle me this, if ATPs are up to $1800, whats better , 1 sale with that 1800, or TWO at say 1200?so, ARE they making more profit?.....Of course Ford doesn't care what the dealer sells the car for, their money is made irrespective, but stagnating sales ( and I repeat the title of this thread is SALES DOWN ) through questionable "incentive programs " seems counter intuitive....and to underline my point, sit abck and watch...continued market share lost and BAM, programs WILL change.....if you don't sell cars it doesn't matter what ATPs are.. Here's the thing: Ford is willing to lose those sales because they don't really have the capacity to make them. You mention selling two cars at a $1,200 ATP increase, well, Ford can't build that second car. Since you joined this forum, this is the capacity that Ford has eliminated: St. Louis Norfolk Hapville Twin Cities St. Thomas That's over a million units of nominal capacity. It's a quarter of the capacity they had available at the time. That cuts all the way across the line--dealers are going to sell fewer cars, and that means that Ford can up prices when demand is good. So, on the one hand, yeah, I can sympathize with you losing sales because Ford's programs aren't competitive, but on the other hand, and this is what stinks: What's good for Ford isn't necessarily good for you, and vice versa. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 (edited) Richard, you forgot Wixom and Wayne Assembly Edited April 6, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Richard, you forgot Wixom and Wayne Assembly I knew I was forgetting a couple. I'm almost inclined to discount at least one of those because Ford also bought out Mazda at Flat Rock, which gave them some additional capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 (edited) oh....did I mention the Superduties are on a STOP SELL recall.....( not sure if its all of them, its a plate in the transmission )....Rich, I understand that, but we HAVE units to sell, its not about factory capacity ( but I see where you are coming from ) like I said...we HAVE units we could sell....yet the numbers are turning prospective buyers away....( and yes theres also lost sales due to certain models availability ).....when your numbers are significantly higher than direct competition, the quality of the unit, and its "gleam" becomes tarnished to some buyers....$850 a month on a ( granted loaded ) pickup is fine and dandy if one gauges success ath ATPs, but when the buyer gos elsewhere, exactly what is achieved aside from another months flooring......probably lost 5 or so sales myself last month because of head scratching payments....and Im one of 20 guys ( granted my base is previous customers, Municipalities, Fleet ) so potentially that's 100 deals gone awry, how many dealers in the US 1800?...... Edited April 6, 2017 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 I knew I was forgetting a couple. I'm almost inclined to discount at least one of those because Ford also bought out Mazda at Flat Rock, which gave them some additional capacity. Atlanta? Or was that before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 humor.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 when the buyer gos elsewhere, exactly what is achieved aside from another months flooring......probably lost 5 or so sales myself last month because of head scratching payments....and Im one of 20 guys ( granted my base is previous customers, Municipalities, Fleet ) so potentially that's 100 deals gone awry, how many dealers in the US 1800?...... Deanh sir, are your lost sales both municipal/fleet and retail customers? Ford seems to be reducing fleet sales intentionally to improve their profitability. Just like GM and FCA US did. However the decline in retail sales is a concern not just for dealership sales professionals but for Ford too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 @rperez....little bit across the board...but more retail customers than anything else....when payments are higher than the competition, retail customers shop elsewhere, loyaly only gos so far. as for reducing fleet sales, Fords cut down on the BAD fleet ( ie dumping to rental companies ) but their sales to Govt, municipalities and large Fleet management companies ( GE Capitol, ARI, Wheels INC etc ) is thriving, and remember, the companies those management companies cater to have choices, not just Fords product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Atlanta? Or was that before then. Atlanta = Hapville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 we HAVE units we could sell Ford is apparently content with their nationwide inventory turnover rate. The faster you sell them, the faster they have to build them, and if they can't build them much faster.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 LOL..double edged sword....we could sell them a hell of a lot faster, and more with a little more assistance.....all the recalls as of late don't help either..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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