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blwnsmoke

Fusion styled crossover?

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4 hours ago, Assimilator said:

I can't remember if the CX430 comes standard with the 2.0L EB, but I know AWD is standard.  I seem to remember that the 2.0L EB was standard.  But my memory is a little jumbled with the configurations for the Pickup/SUV combo which gets more entry-level specs with a 1.5L and FWD standard.   There is a Hybrid version.  The Hybrid on the Bronco was postponed indefinitely...but Ranger is going 2.7EB Hybrid by 2023 with the new model so I suspect a later Bronco will get an update for Hybrid. 
 

 

Hybrid Bronco is back in, JH said so publicly so now it’s included on the US development end

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13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

Hybrid Bronco is back in, JH said so publicly so now it’s included on the US development end

 

Automotive News has been insisting for some time that it is in the initial plan, but I didn't know if they were misinformed or not, based on what has been stated here repeatedly (hybrid either delayed or cancelled).

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46 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Automotive News has been insisting for some time that it is in the initial plan,

Correct,  now connect the dots.

 

Edited by jpd80

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On 10/18/2019 at 5:42 PM, jpd80 said:

The heads up is that Ford will have the price about $6K higher than Escapes, so that sounds like Edge pricing.

Ford is now in this charge more, make and sell less mentality for greater returns with fewer resources corporate stick.

So there could be enough production room to bundle up a whole lot of C2 products at one plant, I just don't see American

managers getting their heads around making so many models on just in time.

 

There is also a catch to Mexico producing and sending vehicles to Brazil and Argentina, those two countries

actively protect their own markets and  prevent Mexico from dumping lots of vehicles in their market

 

6K sounds like a lot, but I guess if it comes with a higher amount of standard content (be it powertrain or "options"), it could work ok.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

6K sounds like a lot, but I guess if it comes with a higher amount of standard content (be it powertrain or "options"), it could work ok.


$3K in upgrades and $3K because it’s unique and desirable and not just another crossover in a sea of similar, commodity vehicles?

 

Thats the big benefit - competing with Jeep and not CRVs and RAV4s on price.

Edited by akirby

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Regarding the Bronco, it's my understanding (based on their internal documents) that the Hybrid was planned for +1 year following the debut year, but those plans had been shelved to prevent further delays.  So I don't think Hybrid was ever planned for the launch year, but they could certainly announce it at the launch.  I haven't seen Hackett talk about it so I don't know what's happening, if anybody has a quote form Hackett on this I would appreciate it.  I don't see why the Bronco wouldn't get the Hybrid eventually, if not at launch, especially if the 2023 Ranger is scheduled to get it.

 

Either way, I would be surprised to see Hybrid available at launch, but more surprised if it doesn't happen at all.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


$3K in upgrades and $3K because it’s unique and desirable and not just another crossover in a sea of similar, commodity vehicles?

 

Thats the big benefit - competing with Jeep and not CRVs and RAV4s on price.

But at what point does the market say uncle to the pricing of vehicles?

 

A 6K price increase over a base Escape and up would put its price range in the $30-40K range for the Baby Bronco....if that is the case, what is Ford expecting to put the Regular Bronco base pricing at? The Ranger is $24K-I'm expecting the Bronco to start above $30K and top out at 50-60K depending on what they plan on doing. 

 

I can see the baby Bronco commanding pricing just under 29K to start and topping out at 40K+ but it also depends on the equipment it has

The Jeep Cherokee starts at $25K and top model is $38K

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4 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

Regarding the Bronco, it's my understanding (based on their internal documents) that the Hybrid was planned for +1 year following the debut year, but those plans had been shelved to prevent further delays.  So I don't think Hybrid was ever planned for the launch year, but they could certainly announce it at the launch.  I haven't seen Hackett talk about it so I don't know what's happening, if anybody has a quote form Hackett on this I would appreciate it.  I don't see why the Bronco wouldn't get the Hybrid eventually, if not at launch, especially if the 2023 Ranger is scheduled to get it.

 

Either way, I would be surprised to see Hybrid available at launch, but more surprised if it doesn't happen at all.  

 

Don't pick a stupid hill to die on again...

 

Due to the lead times of things like this-delaying things would further push it back then what your talking about-plus keep in mind that the Bronco is the next gen Ranger underneath. A 2023 ranger would be a Summer 2022 launch-roughly a year after Bronco goes full rate production.

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Bronco is a 2021 product, Ranger is 2023.  That is a 2 model year gap, not 1. 

 

Edited by Assimilator

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10 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

But at what point does the market say uncle to the pricing of vehicles?

 

A 6K price increase over a base Escape and up would put its price range in the $30-40K range for the Baby Bronco....if that is the case, what is Ford expecting to put the Regular Bronco base pricing at? The Ranger is $24K-I'm expecting the Bronco to start above $30K and top out at 50-60K depending on what they plan on doing. 

 

I can see the baby Bronco commanding pricing just under 29K to start and topping out at 40K+ but it also depends on the equipment it has

The Jeep Cherokee starts at $25K and top model is $38K

 

I'm thinking there won't be a "base" or S version of the baby bronco - it will start with a SE version.  The price difference between a S and SE Escape is $2400.   Add some standard equipment and $6K isn't hard to find.

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5 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

Bronco is a 2021 product, Ranger is 2023.  That is a 2 model year gap, not 1. 

 

 

CY vs MY

 

Bronco Launches late next year or early 2021 as 2021 MY.

 

Ranger would be a CY 2022 product as a 2023 MY in all likelihood. 

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6 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

I'm thinking there won't be a "base" or S version of the baby bronco - it will start with a SE version.  The price difference between a S and SE Escape is $2400.   Add some standard equipment and $6K isn't hard to find.

 

I get that-the thing is that 6K price tag is what vs what when it comes to the Escape-a Escape Ti is $36K or so loaded. I don't see the Baby Bronco commanding an extra $6K over that. Maybe $3-4

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2 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

And? 

 

Its only a single "actual" year between products

 

2021 CY Bronco

2022 CY Ranger as a 2023 MY

 

 

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2 hours ago, akirby said:


$3K in upgrades and $3K because it’s unique and desirable and not just another crossover in a sea of similar, commodity vehicles?

 

Thats the big benefit - competing with Jeep and not CRVs and RAV4s on price.

...and Land Rover with their new Defender (though full fat Bronco is probably the better comparison).

Edited by Gurgeh

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31 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

But at what point does the market say uncle to the pricing of vehicles?

 

A 6K price increase over a base Escape and up would put its price range in the $30-40K range for the Baby Bronco....if that is the case, what is Ford expecting to put the Regular Bronco base pricing at? The Ranger is $24K-I'm expecting the Bronco to start above $30K and top out at 50-60K depending on what they plan on doing. 

 

I can see the baby Bronco commanding pricing just under 29K to start and topping out at 40K+ but it also depends on the equipment it has

The Jeep Cherokee starts at $25K and top model is $38K

 

I'd agree.  Explorer's pricing seems high.  Sales will show if the market will accept those much higher prices, but I worry that they'll push too high.

 

I also pegged roughly Edge pricing - maybe a tad higher for Bronco.

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22 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Its only a single "actual" year between products

 

2021 CY Bronco

2022 CY Ranger as a 2023 MY

 

 

 

Bronco is 2020 CY/2021 MY, no?

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16 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

...and Land Rover with their new Defender (though full fat Bronco is probably the better comparison).

 

Isn't that a huge price difference?  Not sure that's real competition.

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16 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Bronco is 2020 CY/2021 MY, no?

 

Given the rumor its launching late next year (2020CY around November/December timeframe)-it might as well be a 2021 CY/MY launch due to production issues that will most likely crop up-I'm betting we won't see them on the lots in large numbers till the Spring of 2021. 

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33 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'd agree.  Explorer's pricing seems high.  Sales will show if the market will accept those much higher prices, but I worry that they'll push too high.

 

The only models I'd say might be over priced is the ST and Platinum models.

 

When the Explorer Sport came out it was about 2K more then my SHO, which listed at $47K

 

The price keeps creeping up and now starts at $54K

A well loaded XLT is just under $50K

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10 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Given the rumor its launching late next year (2020CY around November/December timeframe)-it might as well be a 2021 CY/MY launch due to production issues that will most likely crop up-I'm betting we won't see them on the lots in large numbers till the Spring of 2021. 

 

I have a feeling they're going to inch along with Bronco's production/introduction - that they won't want to screw it up (how Explorer should've been).

 

5 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The only models I'd say might be over priced is the ST and Platinum models.

 

When the Explorer Sport came out it was about 2K more then my SHO, which listed at $47K

 

The price keeps creeping up and now starts at $54K

A well loaded XLT is just under $50K

 

Well, XLT keeps getting hit in reviews for not being as nice as competitors/not having the features.  :shrug:  we'll see!

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3 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Well, XLT keeps getting hit in reviews for not being as nice as competitors/not having the features.  :shrug:  we'll see!

 

Oddly enough all the reviews have been against the Kia and Hyundai models. I just saw one this morning with a Buick thrown in there and the Buick in came dead last.

 

Let me put my tinfoil hat on and maybe we are seeing advertising dollars getting thrown at media combined with lower pricing ala the Lexus LS400 launch to make both models seem better then they actually are?

 

Should be interesting how it plays out, none the less. 

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6 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Oddly enough all the reviews have been against the Kia and Hyundai models. I just saw one this morning with a Buick thrown in there and the Buick in came dead last.

 

Let me put my tinfoil hat on and maybe we are seeing advertising dollars getting thrown at media combined with lower pricing ala the Lexus LS400 launch to make both models seem better then they actually are?

 

Should be interesting how it plays out, none the less. 

 

Yeah, that could be.

 

Though with them all debuting around the same time, it's also natural for them to be compared.

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3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Given the rumor its launching late next year (2020CY around November/December timeframe)-it might as well be a 2021 CY/MY launch due to production issues that will most likely crop up-I'm betting we won't see them on the lots in large numbers till the Spring of 2021. 

It will be very similar to Ranger's launch, SOP is early December so yeah, January/February on dealers lots assuming OK to buy..

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