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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, akirby said:

Why on earth you would ever build a plant with such a restriction is mind boggling.


Mazda. They wanted a plant for their flagship sedan. 
 

Also, it's the Japanese way of doing things. Do 1 thing really well as efficiently as possible. At the time they (Mazda) was only Building sedans really, except for their truck which was built in Ford plants with the old Ranger. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo
I had another thought

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19 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Thanks for the clarification. OAC certainly does this place is 5.4 million square ft and has the room seeing as how like MAP it used to be two separate plants. 


The buildings that house final assembly, paint and Body shop now used to be the truck plant. Stamping/subs and the old Wayne Assembly Building (heard it's going to get renamed when MOD center is finished but I think that's still a rumor at this point) used to be Escort/Focus. They closed the whole complex under the way forward and converted the truck plant to unibody for 2012 Focus, which is why it was renamed from Michigan Truck to Michigan Assembly. The old Wayne Assembly plant was mostly empty or used by skilled trades to store spare equipment until recently and the stamping building was retooled to build sub assemblies to support body shop. It's still that way today. 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It's not the equipment, it's the building itself. In hindsight Mazda was incredibly short sighted when they designed that plant but 30 years ago nobody would have expected the sedan market to contract as much as it has in the last 5. 

Thanks fuzzy, that makes sense and probably the reason why Ford was looking to close FRAP

and move Mustang to another plant. I wonder if there's a chance of another product, something

that's obviously car height but not a car....... perhaps a pickup?

 

Edited by jpd80

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FRAP was originally built as a castings center in the 70’s, some of the buildings shortcomings come from the fact it was never intended to be an Assembly plant.

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13 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Thanks fuzzy, that makes sense and probably the reason why Ford was looking to close FRAP

and move Mustang to another plant. I wonder if there's a chance of another product, something

that's obviously car height but not a car....... perhaps a pickup?

 


Not sure a pickup would fit either. Then again Edison (built 1947) only built unibody car products til it was retooled in the late 1980s to build Rangers. 

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1 minute ago, jasonj80 said:

FRAP was originally built as a castings center in the 70’s, some of the buildings shortcomings come from the fact it was never intended to be an Assembly plant.


I was under the impression that the assembly plant was a separate building?! 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:


Not sure a pickup would fit either. Then again Edison (built 1947) only built unibody car products til it was retooled in the late 1980s to build Rangers. 

 I was thinking more like a Mustang Ranchero but I know that the more it's discussed, the less likely it seems.

 

Random thought,

My recollection of Mazda and FRAP was that it didn't build the plant, it was given an existing plant to modify

Edited by jpd80

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12 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:


I was under the impression that the assembly plant was a separate building?! 

Nope. You can see it in google earth, the whole building is both huge and small at the same time somehow. Everything is housed under one roof. You have some other support buildings scattered around the site but body shop, stamping, paint and final assembly are all under 1 roof. 

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1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Nope. You can see it in google earth, the whole building is both huge and small at the same time somehow. Everything is housed under one roof. You have some other support buildings scattered around the site but body shop, stamping, paint and final assembly are all under 1 roof. 


according to Wikipedia-from an article I can’t pull up now that is cited for it. 
 

Mazda Motor Corporation started construction of a new building on the site of the Michigan Casting Center in 1985 and cars started production at Mazda Motor Manufacturing USA in September 1987 with the Mazda MX-6 and Ford Probe coupes.[5] In 1991 the plant had 3,600 employees, including 250 Japanese employees.[6]

 

maybe it was modified from casting plant?

 

 

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23 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It's been stated before that the  equipment doesn't have enough room for the taller bodies.

It doesn't help that ford cancelled a new paint shop for FRAP in as many years.  Im surprised the UAW did not hold Ford to it in last year's contract. 

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:


I was under the impression that the assembly plant was a separate building?! 

The old Michigan Casting Center is a separate building as is the assembly plant.  The assembly plant was built to the west of it.  The casting plant was used for various functions over the years to support the assembly plant. 

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Thanks fuzzy, that makes sense and probably the reason why Ford was looking to close FRAP

and move Mustang to another plant. I wonder if there's a chance of another product, something

that's obviously car height but not a car....... perhaps a pickup?

 

I think FRAP would be a good fit for the Fusion Active and/or a Mustang sedan. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

The old Michigan Casting Center is a separate building as is the assembly plant.  The assembly plant was built to the west of it.  The casting plant was used for various functions over the years to support the assembly plant. 

it's called COBRA center. They make sub assemblies for chassis there. At least I think we're thinking of the same building 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

It doesn't help that ford cancelled a new paint shop for FRAP in as many years.  Im surprised the UAW did not hold Ford to it in last year's contract. 


After hearing some of the things I've heard about what was involved regarding flat rock  they're incredibly lucky they got what they got,  really doesn't look like much of anything at all on paper but trust me the alternative was worse.

Edited by fuzzymoomoo
wording

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2 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

FRAP was originally built as a castings center in the 70’s, some of the buildings shortcomings come from the fact it was never intended to be an Assembly plant.


That makes a lot more sense.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


After hearing some of the things I've heard about what was involved regarding flat rock  they're incredibly lucky they got what they got,  really doesn't look like much of anything at all on paper but trust me the alternative was worse.

Now that the plant has been saved from closure and the mid-sized BEVs going to OHAP,

is it likely that Mustang is it or would Ford look to add something else?

Edited by jpd80

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Now that the plant has been saved from closure and the mid-sized BEVs going to OHAP,

is it likely that Mustang is it or would Ford look to add something else?


you want my honest opinion?

 

The 2019 UAW/Ford contract only delayed the inevitable for 4 more years. That plant is as good as closed. 

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18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


you want my honest opinion?

 

The 2019 UAW/Ford contract only delayed the inevitable for 4 more years. That plant is as good as closed. 

So it's an appeasement to the UAW contract , a convenient delay to allow Continental to

balance outb butwill the new Mustang  keep the lights on?

 

or does a BEV coupe shimmer on the horizon at another plant south of the border?

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13 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

So it's an appeasement to the UAW contract , a convenient delay to allow Continental to

balance outb butwill the new Mustang  keep the lights on?

 

or does a BEV coupe shimmer on the horizon at another plant south of the border?

 

Bill Ford and the family won't have the Mustang be built outside the US. 

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26 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Bill Ford and the family won't have the Mustang be built outside the US. 

 

That's awesome. It's really sad that that the Challenger is made in Canada. As the Punisher himself says: "Always buy American!"  And who wants to argue with that man?

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1 hour ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Bill Ford and the family won't have the Mustang be built outside the US. 

So where would you suggest it gets built when FRAP eventually closes?

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Just now, jpd80 said:

So where would you suggest it gets built when FRAP eventually closes?

 

Yeah that is my thought process too...where would they build it? 

 

US Unibody only Plants:

Chicago: Explorer/Aviator
Louisville: Escape/Corsair

 

Maybe Louisville would be a better fit, since Escape production might shrink a bit with all the Ford alternatives that are coming in the next 18 months or so with the Bronco Sport and Maverick pickup
 

Also I think Mustang sales are gonna take a hit with the Bronco around also...large portion of former Mustang/Camaro buyers get Wranglers to replace them. 

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6 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Yeah that is my thought process too...where would they build it? 

 

US Unibody only Plants:

Chicago: Explorer/Aviator
Louisville: Escape/Corsair

 

Maybe Louisville would be a better fit, since Escape production might shrink a bit with all the Ford alternatives that are coming in the next 18 months or so with the Bronco Sport and Maverick pickup
 

Also I think Mustang sales are gonna take a hit with the Bronco around also...large portion of former Mustang/Camaro buyers get Wranglers to replace them. 

That's what I heard too, Ford's research showed a lot of interest in Bronco by existing Mustang owners.

Maybe lifestyle vehicle  preferences are changing for Mustang buyers too.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

That's what I heard too, Ford's research showed a lot of interest in Bronco by existing Mustang owners.

Maybe lifestyle vehicle  preferences are changing for Mustang buyers too.

 

Since autos in general are very expensive-people are more likely to buy a swiss army knife type vehicle vs say a pocket knife.

 

You can do alot more with a Swiss Army knife then just cut something. 

Plus with the addition of the Mach E, the coupe market is going shrink even more to a point. 

The Mustang is a great car, but its far better as a second/third one then someones primary  means of transportation and that will be reflected in sales numbers. 

Edited by silvrsvt

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7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

it's called COBRA center. They make sub assemblies for chassis there. At least I think we're thinking of the same building 

 

We are.

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