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blwnsmoke

2021 F150 and 2020/2021 SD recalled

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SMH!!!!!

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ford-recalls-f-150-super-222826924.html

 

Ford announced that it is recalling about 80,000 F-150 and Super Dutypickup trucks in America due to concerns that the windshield may not be properly bonded to the vehicle structure. The company warns that in a collision the windshield may not stay in place, increasing the risk of injury.

This recall affects 79,017 trucks in the U.S. and federal territories, 6,986 in Canada, and 1,347 in Mexico.

Ford is not aware of any accidents or injuries related to this problem.

 

Owners will be notified beginning in early April 2021.

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3 hours ago, blwnsmoke said:

SMH!!!!!

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ford-recalls-f-150-super-222826924.html

 

Ford announced that it is recalling about 80,000 F-150 and Super Dutypickup trucks in America due to concerns that the windshield may not be properly bonded to the vehicle structure. The company warns that in a collision the windshield may not stay in place, increasing the risk of injury.

This recall affects 79,017 trucks in the U.S. and federal territories, 6,986 in Canada, and 1,347 in Mexico.

Ford is not aware of any accidents or injuries related to this problem.

 

Owners will be notified beginning in early April 2021.

Bad batch of adhesive?  Many companies would likely sweep that under the rug and hope nobody noticed.

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Unbelievable.  

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While the recent recalls all seem fairly minor, it doesn’t seem to paint a good picture for QC at ford. The bronco sport has already had 3 small recalls and now the f150. I really hope they can get this under control.

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5 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

While the recent recalls all seem fairly minor, it doesn’t seem to paint a good picture for QC at ford. The bronco sport has already had 3 small recalls and now the f150. I really hope they can get this under control.

 

Does anyone know the AVERAGE number of recalls on a first year vehicle? I bet it is high number. My 2020 Escape has had only ONE recall so far, and CR gives it its lowest reliability score. I have not had one issue with mine other than backup camera. My conclusion is there seems to be no correlation between recalls and reliability ratings by CR.

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3 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

While the recent recalls all seem fairly minor, it doesn’t seem to paint a good picture for QC at ford. The bronco sport has already had 3 small recalls and now the f150. I really hope they can get this under control.


I’m not sure these are necessarily out of the norm.  Is Ford just being far more proactive issuing recalls instead of just doing customer satisfaction programs or TSBs out of an abundance of caution?

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1 minute ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Does anyone know the AVERAGE number of recalls on a first year vehicle? I bet it is high number. My 2020 Escape has had only ONE recall so far, and CR gives it its lowest reliability score. I have not had one issue with mine other than backup camera. My conclusion is there seems to be no correlation between recalls and reliability ratings by CR.


Let’s not forget that some brands (Honda, Toyota) are notorious for “silent recalls” where they just fix problems when the owner brings it in for service.  No recall, no publicity.  So it’s hard to compare.

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5 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

My conclusion is there seems to be no correlation between recalls and reliability ratings by CR.

 

Yes sir FordBuyer, you are correct. The CR reliability survey specifically excludes issues due solely to safety recalls. Here is the statement from CR.

 

"For reliability, we ask members to note any problems with their vehicles that occurred in the past 12 months. They are asked to identify problems that they considered serious (because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime). We ask them to include problems covered by warranty, but

not the ones resulting from accident damage or due solely to recall."

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5 minutes ago, akirby said:


I’m not sure these are necessarily out of the norm.  Is Ford just being far more proactive issuing recalls instead of just doing customer satisfaction programs or TSBs out of an abundance of caution?

Good question, and that’s good on their part if so. I frequent auto websites daily and I don’t recall seeing as many recall articles for other manufacturers as I do for ford. Of course being a ford fan, the ford articles might stand out to me more so than other companies.

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28 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir FordBuyer, you are correct. The CR reliability survey specifically excludes issues due solely to safety recalls. Here is the statement from CR.

 

 

 

 

So if a driver of a certain new vehicle complains about road noise, a bouncy ride, fit and finish, uncomfortable driving position, etc., that is considered a reliability issue? I doubt if brand new vehicles are stranding drivers on the side of the road.

 

Interesting to know what CR classifies as a RELIABILITY issue. Easy to throw around descriptions like "harsh ride," "uncomfortable ride," "abrupt shifting," "hard plastics," and the like. Most of those comments come from personal, biased agenda, mindset.

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20 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Interesting to know what CR classifies as a RELIABILITY issue. Easy to throw around descriptions like "harsh ride," "uncomfortable ride," "abrupt shifting," "hard plastics," and the like. Most of those comments come from personal, biased agenda, mindset.

 

Good points FordBuyer sir. The CR reliability survey focuses entirely on "problems that owners considered serious (because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime)". It does not consider design issues like "harsh ride", "complicated menu for infotainment system" or "bland styling" the way that some other surveys like J.D. Power APEAL and Strategic Vision NVES do.

 

List of problem areas tabulated in CR reliability survey.

 

Our Reliability History charts cover problems in any of 17 trouble areas. Here's a look at what's covered in each of those areas, listed in order of mechanical and more serious problems first:
  • ENGINE, MAJOR: Engine rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.
  • ENGINE, MINOR: Accessory belts and pulleys, engine computer, engine mounts, engine knock or ping, difficult to fill up gas tank, fuel leaks, oil leaks.
  • ENGINE COOLING: Radiator, cooling fan, water pump, thermostat, coolant/antifreeze leaks, overheating.
  • TRANSMISSION, MAJOR: Transmission rebuild or replacement, torque converter, premature clutch replacement.
  • TRANSMISSION, MINOR: Gear selector and linkage, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, slipping transmission, leaks.
  • DRIVE SYSTEM: Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, four-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive components, driveline vibration, electrical failure, traction control, electronic stability control (ESC).
  • FUEL SYSTEM/EMISSIONS: Sensors (O2 or oxygen sensor), emission-control devices (includes EGR), fuel-injection system, fuel gauge/sender, fuel pump.
  • ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: Alternator, starter, hybrid/electric battery replacement, hybrid/electric battery related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, spark plugs and wires failure.
  • CLIMATE SYSTEM: A/C compressor, blower (fan) motor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate system, electrical failure, refrigerant leakage.
  • SUSPENSION/STEERING: Shocks or struts, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, alignment, steering linkage (includes rack and pinion), power steering (pumps and hoses, leaks), wheel balance, springs or torsion bars, bushings, electronic or air suspension.
  • BRAKES: Antilock system (ABS), parking brake, master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pulsation or vibration, brake failure, premature wear.
  • EXHAUST: Muffler, pipes, catalytic converter, exhaust manifold, heat shields, leaks.
  • PAINT/TRIM: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling or cracking), loose interior or exterior trim or moldings, rust.
  • BODY INTEGRITY (Noises/leaks): Squeaks, rattles, seals, and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.
  • BODY HARDWARE: Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (power or manual), seat belts, sunroof, convertible top, glass defect.
  • POWER EQUIPMENT AND ACCESSORIES: Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, USB port, alarm or security system, remote engine start, heated or cooled seats, heated steering wheel.
  • IN-CAR ELECTRONICS: CD player, rear entertainment system (rear screen or DVD player), radio, speakers, in-dash GPS, display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g. Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface, backup or other camera/sensors, Android Auto/Apple CarPlay, infotainment hardware replacement.

 

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

Easy to throw around descriptions like "harsh ride," "uncomfortable ride," "abrupt shifting," "hard plastics," and the like. Most of those comments come from personal, biased agenda, mindset.


Why would a person who just bought a new vehicle and has taken this survey have a biased agenda?

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2 hours ago, FR739 said:


Why would a person who just bought a new vehicle and has taken this survey have a biased agenda?

 

I've always felt that CR is biased in its reviews and reports. So if the previous generation Escapes have had problems, then CR automatically assumes new generation will have similar problems.

 

Most problems listed above might happen a few years and many thousands of miles later. Interesting that CR gives new Escape poor reliability rating when most on road are not even a year old. I have not heard of any horrific problems with the new Escape like engines blowing up, catching on fire, big time trans problems like Focus, and the like. Only big problems I've noticed is new RAV4 having serious fuel tank and suspension issues.

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39 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

I've always felt that CR is biased in its reviews and reports. So if the previous generation Escapes have had problems, then CR automatically assumes new generation will have similar problems.

 

Most problems listed above might happen a few years and many thousands of miles later. Interesting that CR gives new Escape poor reliability rating when most on road are not even a year old. I have not heard of any horrific problems with the new Escape like engines blowing up, catching on fire, big time trans problems like Focus, and the like. Only big problems I've noticed is new RAV4 having serious fuel tank and suspension issues.


Ok I think I get what you’re saying.  But I believe all of CRs data comes from owner surveys so their data is driven by actual owner experiences.  
 

Im guessing the only thing that is from CR themselves is the in depth reviews.  

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3 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Interesting that CR gives new Escape poor reliability rating when most on road are not even a year old. I have not heard of any horrific problems with the new Escape like engines blowing up, catching on fire, big time trans problems like Focus, and the like. Only big problems I've noticed is new RAV4 having serious fuel tank and suspension issues.

 

Age of vehicle is taken into account in the CR survey. These are the areas (see my previous post for descriptions and examples) where 2020 Escape and 2020 RAV4 owners reported problems at a higher frequency than the average for all cars of the same model year.

 

2020 Ford Escape (overall reliability rating = much worse than average)

  • Transmission Minor
  • Body Integrity
  • Power Equipment
  • In-car electronics

2020 Toyota RAV4 (overall reliability rating = average)

  • Fuel system
  • In-car electronics

 

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3 hours ago, FR739 said:

But I believe all of CRs data comes from owner surveys so their data is driven by actual owner experiences.  
 

Im guessing the only thing that is from CR themselves is the in depth reviews.  

 

Yes sir FR739, you are correct. CR's reliability ratings are based on data from owners' actual experiences, not the opinions of CR's automotive testing staff. By contrast, CR's road test score is based on evaluation of a particular vehicle by CR staff members.

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The problem is there is some inherent bias in what is considered a major issue.  “Significant downtime” means different things to different people along with the cost of repair.  Then you have the folks that claim their Japanese vehicle is the most reliable thing in the world and would never buy a Ford or other domestic vehicle because they are unreliable, yet their car is in the shop more than any of my Fords or my friends.

 

Cars now are so much more reliable and longer lasting than they were in the past.  This shows in the average age of vehicles on the road.  To me, reliability just doesn’t have much influence anymore.  Pretty much anything other than the perennial bottom dwellers will do.

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir FR739, you are correct. CR's reliability ratings are based on data from owners' actual experiences, not the opinions of CR's automotive testing staff. By contrast, CR's road test score is based on evaluation of a particular vehicle by CR staff members.

 

They also rank "I can't figure out how to pair my phone" evenly with "my engine exploded"

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11 hours ago, slemke said:

Cars now are so much more reliable and longer lasting than they were in the past.  This shows in the average age of vehicles on the road.  To me, reliability just doesn’t have much influence anymore.  Pretty much anything other than the perennial bottom dwellers will do.

 

I've been saying this for years now.  No brands or models are bulletproof like the 90s Hondas which were much simpler machines.  Cars no longer fall apart after 80K miles.

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12 hours ago, slemke said:

The problem is there is some inherent bias in what is considered a major issue.  “Significant downtime” means different things to different people along with the cost of repair.  Then you have the folks that claim their Japanese vehicle is the most reliable thing in the world and would never buy a Ford or other domestic vehicle because they are unreliable, yet their car is in the shop more than any of my Fords or my friends.

 

Cars now are so much more reliable and longer lasting than they were in the past.  This shows in the average age of vehicles on the road.  To me, reliability just doesn’t have much influence anymore.  Pretty much anything other than the perennial bottom dwellers will do.

 

I would agree. All the major manufacturers produce good, reliable vehicles with minor differences between them. I highly doubt brand new vehicles have all sorts of problems. Explorer was the anomaly with serious launch problems.

 

In fact, many drivers don't even bring their vehicles in for recalls. Many of the problem areas listed by CR are long term problems like oil leaks, power window malfunction, engine light on, and the like.

 

As for rattles and squeaks, they are most common long term after hitting hundreds of potholes. My Subaru Crosstrek was rattle free first 2 years, and last year had annoying unsolved rattle. My 2002 Taurus was rattle free right up to 2017 when I sold it. One recall and no problems other than wear and tear for 15 years. But I bet CR gives it poor rating. No rattles in my Escape 10 months in and 2 drivers.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

 

I've been saying this for years now.  No brands or models are bulletproof like the 90s Hondas which were much simpler machines.  Cars no longer fall apart after 80K miles.

 

I remember back in the 60's rust started showing up after a couple years and most bought new vehicles every few years. My family had a '55 Ford, '59 Ford, '62 Ford, '65 Ford, '67 Ford, '69 Ford, and '72 Ford. We were pretty typical in the neighborhood. 

 

Now it's pretty common to keep a vehicle 10+ years rust free and good running. My 2002 Taurus didn't start showing rust until 2015 and it wasn't terminal like the 60's. The average age of vehicles on road is over 10 years and most run fine.

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14 hours ago, akirby said:

 

I've been saying this for years now.  No brands or models are bulletproof like the 90s Hondas which were much simpler machines.  Cars no longer fall apart after 80K miles.

Maybe the 90s Honda’s.  The 80s Hondas had all sorts of issues....at least up in the Dakotas and MN.

 

They were simpler machines back then.

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On 2/23/2021 at 11:29 PM, rmc523 said:

They also rank "I can't figure out how to pair my phone" evenly with "my engine exploded"

 

No sir. Exactly the opposite is true. Explanation from CR below.

 

"Are All Problems Considered Equally Serious?
Engine major, engine cooling, transmission major, and drive system problems are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weight these areas more heavily in our calculations of model year Overall Reliability Verdict. Problems such as broken trim and in-car electronics have a much smaller weight."

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On 2/24/2021 at 10:46 AM, FordBuyer said:

No rattles in my Escape 10 months in and 2 drivers.

 

Very impressive, you are very lucky FordBuyer sir! Newly introduced or redesigned, 1st model year Ford vehicles tend to be rattletraps.

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22 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Very impressive, you are very lucky FordBuyer sir! Newly introduced or redesigned, 1st model year Ford vehicles tend to be rattletraps.


Nice sweeping generalization.  Our 2020 Explorer and Escape are not rattle traps, and I am highly critical of rattles and noises in my vehicles.  

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