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Stray Kat

The new 6.8 V8 thread

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Hey gang I check here every day for even a crumb of information on this new Godzilla based 6.8 engine. 

 

It’s been quite a while since I’ve been able to find anything of substance so if you fellas feel like it you can drop any information you have on it right here. 
 

I saw on another forum that this engine line is up and running and I believe the first few have been built. 
 

Hoping to garner anything more on it especially it’s intended usage in Ford’s rapidly expanding and ever more exciting vehicle lineup. 
 

 

Thanks in advance. 

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Would this be about the right time for pilot production to begin for the Raptor R?  Maybe it will get the 6.8l from the start.  I thought full production wasn’t until 2023.

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21 hours ago, slemke said:

Would this be about the right time for pilot production to begin for the Raptor R?  Maybe it will get the 6.8l from the start.  I thought full production wasn’t until 2023.

I have voiced an opinion about this very subject. I’m just a simple old backyard boy but my instincts tell me that a high strung V8 with a “super sucker” supercharger on top is NOT a great idea for vehicles that are intended to be used in silty desert conditions. 
 

I don’t think fixed rotor superchargers can deal with getting sandblasted for very long. 
 

I’d rather see Ford put a healthy N/A V8 in the Raptor R and let Stellantis have the horsepower bragging rights with a foolish design that will never tolerate the conditions. 
 

Ford needs to win by being the best not just having the best magazine numbers. 

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12 minutes ago, Stray Kat said:

I have voiced an opinion about this very subject. I’m just a simple old backyard boy but my instincts tell me that a high strung V8 with a “super sucker” supercharger on top is NOT a great idea for vehicles that are intended to be used in silty desert conditions. 
 

I don’t think fixed rotor superchargers can deal with getting sandblasted for very long. 
 

I’d rather see Ford put a healthy N/A V8 in the Raptor R and let Stellantis have the horsepower bragging rights with a foolish design that will never tolerate the conditions. 
 

Ford needs to win by being the best not just having the best magazine numbers. 

 

I would think that as long as the air filtration system is properly designed dust would not be that big of a concern. Once the filter becomes clogged it doesn't matter what type of induction system is on an engine it is going to hurt its performance. Unless you are driving behind other vehicles that are kicking up a lot of dust (as in a desert race) I doubt it would be that big of an issue anyway. If it was you would have heard about turbocharged EcoBoost engines in previous year Raptors having similar problems by now.

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8 minutes ago, blksn8k2 said:

 

I would think that as long as the air filtration system is properly designed dust would not be that big of a concern. Once the filter becomes clogged it doesn't matter what type of induction system is on an engine it is going to hurt its performance. Unless you are driving behind other vehicles that are kicking up a lot of dust (as in a desert race) I doubt it would be that big of an issue anyway. If it was you would have heard about turbocharged EcoBoost engines in previous year Raptors having similar problems by now.

I respectfully disagree because these Rootes type blowers rely on very tight rotor to rotor and rotor to case tolerances to build efficient boost. 
 

I don’t have data to back this up but it seems to me turbos with big spaces (like flutes on a drill bit) are mush less sensitive to the “sanding” phenomenon with their big spaces between turbine blades. 
 

Look at all your heavy duty off road diesels. Nearly all turbocharged. Only the old Detroit’s used Rootes blowers in such conditions. 

Of course I could be wrong and probably am but boy I’d hate to be the guy that signs off on a deal like that and then has to underwrite the warranty on those expensive blowers. 

 

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On 6/20/2021 at 3:25 PM, Stray Kat said:

I have voiced an opinion about this very subject. I’m just a simple old backyard boy but my instincts tell me that a high strung V8 with a “super sucker” supercharger on top is NOT a great idea for vehicles that are intended to be used in silty desert conditions. 
 

I don’t think fixed rotor superchargers can deal with getting sandblasted for very long. 
 

I’d rather see Ford put a healthy N/A V8 in the Raptor R and let Stellantis have the horsepower bragging rights with a foolish design that will never tolerate the conditions. 
 

Ford needs to win by being the best not just having the best magazine numbers. 

 

Sand should not be entering the inlet tract. 

For desert running something like a Donaldson Powercore would cure that issue as that's what they were designed for.  

Ford does not need to give themselves a major performance handicap for what is (IMHO) a non-factor design criteria.  

 

I also doubt a healthy N/A 6.8L V8 -- especially a Godzilla derivative -- would offer enough of a performance benefit over the HO 3.5 EB to be worth even talking about.  

 

Although a 6.8L version of the long-runner intake Gen 3 Coyote (Mustang GT trim) would make ~630 HP/570 lb-ft any 6.8L high performance variant of Godzilla will be stuck around LS7-ish numbers. 

Figure 500-530 HP, 470-500 lb-ft best case for a 6.8 Godzilla with fairly wild for a OE truck V8 cam timing (it will need to rev to 7000) and heads that flow 30-40 cfm more than the 7.3 truck heads. 

 

A naturally aspirated 6.8 liter DOHC 4V @ 630/570 could compete with the TRX given the weight advantage of having no SC/IC system compounded with a slightly lighter base chassis.   

A "Hi-Po" 6.8 liter version of Godzilla will need some boost to avoid having the TRX eat its lunch.    

 

Hooray for the return of pushrods...  (◔_◔)

 

 

Edited by ESP08

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2 hours ago, ESP08 said:

 

Sand should not be entering the inlet tract. 

For desert running something like a Donaldson Powercore would cure that issue as that's what they were designed for.  

Ford does not need to give themselves a major performance handicap for what is (IMHO) a non-factor design criteria.  

 

I also doubt a healthy N/A 6.8L V8 -- especially a Godzilla derivative -- would offer enough of a performance benefit over the HO 3.5 EB to be worth even talking about.  

 

Although a 6.8L version of the long-runner intake Gen 3 Coyote (Mustang GT trim) would make ~630 HP/570 lb-ft any 6.8L high performance variant of Godzilla will be stuck around LS7-ish numbers. 

Figure 500-530 HP, 470-500 lb-ft best case for a 6.8 Godzilla with fairly wild for a OE truck V8 cam timing (it will need to rev to 7000) and heads that flow 30-40 cfm more than the 7.3 truck heads. 

 

A naturally aspirated 6.8 liter DOHC 4V @ 630/570 could compete with the TRX given the weight advantage of having no SC/IC system compounded with a slightly lighter base chassis.   

A 6.8 liter version of Godzilla will need some boost to avoid having the TRX eat its lunch.    

 

Hooray for the return of pushrods...  (◔_◔)

 

 

I don’t know. I don’t think Ford needs to win every horsepower pissing contest. 
 

If the 6.8 is an alloy block as has been rumored the weight advantage the Raptor would have over the TRX would be substantial and it would benefit it’s off road performance greatly. 
 

The TRX is pretty awesome but it’s also a brute. I think a more nimble Raptor would win the sales and customer satisfaction battle. 
 

The only scenario I could see is a 6.8/10spd hybrid which they could pull off the shelf at this point. 
 

Yes that ☝️adds weight but it’s unique enough to be very attractive to customers. 
 

I’d rather have a 500hp 6.8 hybrid with the Powerboost technology that would be epic good and useful off road than a blown sand sucker 5.2 brought in to just regain bragging rights?

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9 minutes ago, Stray Kat said:

I don’t know. I don’t think Ford needs to win every horsepower pissing contest. 
 

If the 6.8 is an alloy block as has been rumored the weight advantage the Raptor would have over the TRX would be substantial and it would benefit it’s off road performance greatly. 
 

The TRX is pretty awesome but it’s also a brute. I think a more nimble Raptor would win the sales and customer satisfaction battle. 
 

The only scenario I could see is a 6.8/10spd hybrid which they could pull off the shelf at this point. 
 

Yes that ☝️adds weight but it’s unique enough to be very attractive to customers. 
 

I’d rather have a 500hp 6.8 hybrid with the Powerboost technology that would be epic good and useful off road than a blown sand sucker 5.2 brought in to just regain bragging rights?

 

The thing is a Predator powered Raptor @ ~720 HP would eat the TRXs lunch on the straights and also be the lighter and more nimble truck.  

Predator is lighter than Hellcat.

 

The current SuperCrew Raptor is 5680 lbs vs TRX @ 6400 lbs.  

 

I'd agree with you with if Raptor R wasn't a halo product but it is, it needs at least match the TRX in straight line.     

 

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I'm thinking 6.8 is more likely to find a home in regular F-Series than Raptor but I'm no truck expert.

 

 

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Ya,

it would be nice to have more info on the new 6.8 V8.

I just wonder if it is designed to replace the current 6.2 in f250/350  and to be competitive with the new GM 6.6 V8.

It might be that simple because this would transfer the manufacturing from Romeo MI to the Windsor facility!

edselford

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2 hours ago, edselford said:

Ya,

it would be nice to have more info on the new 6.8 V8.

I just wonder if it is designed to replace the current 6.2 in f250/350  and to be competitive with the new GM 6.6 V8.

It might be that simple because this would transfer the manufacturing from Romeo MI to the Windsor facility!

edselford

 

On paper, that kind of make sense... an opportunity for Ford to consolidate F-series/E-series/F-650 truck engine on the same family and wind down 6.2 production. The switch to aluminum to save weight and coupled with smaller displacement, the engine could end up sipping much less fuel than 7.3. For certain applications like F-250 and E-350, this engine could make a lot of sense as the base engine.

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My recollection is that a Godzilla doesn't weigh much more than a Coyote, so going to a 'loomnum block in a smaller displacement would dang near make it a featherweight.

 

I'm not sure what it would actually gain you in an F-150 (possibly excluding the Raptor). On paper, the numbers for the F-150's 5.0 and Super Duty's 7.3 are not that far apart; obviously, they're not exactly apples to apples, but a NA 6.8 in F-150 trim would still probably come in somewhere between the Coyote and EB35, which seems like a non-starter in that lineup--Mustang needs the volume of the F-150 to keep the V8 viable, and they're all-in on EcoBoost, so reducing either one seems highly unlikely. The 6.8 would have to outperform the EB35 to make sense in the F-150, IMHO, which means it would effectively have to outperform the 7.3, which would seem unlikely if it is based on the 7.3.

 

Now, if the 6.8 is a Coyote derivative rather than a Godzilla derivative, that could all change.
 

If it's a Godzilla derivative, it makes a heck of a lot of sense in the Super Duties, though. If you replace the "old" workhorse 6.2 and consolidate its manufacturing with Godzilla, you simplify both production of the mill and the logistics of producing its host truck, and it doesn't have to fit into a gap between the other engines in the lineup.

Edited by SoonerLS

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1 hour ago, SoonerLS said:

My recollection is that a Godzilla doesn't weigh much more than a Coyote, so going to a 'loomnum block in a smaller displacement would dang near make it a featherweight.

 

I'm not sure what it would actually gain you in an F-150 (possibly excluding the Raptor). On paper, the numbers for the F-150's 5.0 and Super Duty's 7.3 are not that far apart; obviously, they're not exactly apples to apples, but a NA 6.8 in F-150 trim would still probably come in somewhere between the Coyote and EB35, which seems like a non-starter in that lineup--Mustang needs the volume of the F-150 to keep the V8 viable, and they're all-in on EcoBoost, so reducing either one seems highly unlikely. The 6.8 would have to outperform the EB35 to make sense in the F-150, IMHO, which means it would effectively have to outperform the 7.3, which would seem unlikely if it is based on the 7.3.

 

Now, if the 6.8 is a Coyote derivative rather than a Godzilla derivative, that could all change.
 

If it's a Godzilla derivative, it makes a heck of a lot of sense in the Super Duties, though. If you replace the "old" workhorse 6.2 and consolidate its manufacturing with Godzilla, you simplify both production of the mill and the logistics of producing its host truck, and it doesn't have to fit into a gap between the other engines in the lineup.

A OHV 6.8 would be significantly cheaper to build than the Coyote. 

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1 hour ago, Trader 10 said:

A OHV 6.8 would be significantly cheaper to build than the Coyote. 

In the long run, maybe, but the 6.8 will still have to earn back its development costs. I just don't see it replacing the Coyote in the F-150 or Mustang, which pretty much "relegates" it to the Super Duties or special edition vehicles.

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2 hours ago, mustang let back said:

The 6.8 needs to be in the Mustang,explorer,navigator,and expedition !!!

Why? The 7.3's numbers aren't a quantum leap over the Coyote, and they're not quite on par with the EB35, so if it's a Godzilla offshoot, even accounting for the different testing standards, tuning, etc, for the Super Duties, the 6.8 is going to be smack in the middle of no man's land. 

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On 6/20/2021 at 6:25 PM, Stray Kat said:

I have voiced an opinion about this very subject. I’m just a simple old backyard boy but my instincts tell me that a high strung V8 with a “super sucker” supercharger on top is NOT a great idea for vehicles that are intended to be used in silty desert conditions. 
 

I don’t think fixed rotor superchargers can deal with getting sandblasted for very long. 
 

I’d rather see Ford put a healthy N/A V8 in the Raptor R and let Stellantis have the horsepower bragging rights with a foolish design that will never tolerate the conditions. 
 

Ford needs to win by being the best not just having the best magazine numbers. 

Ford prefers the screw charger over the roots.

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11 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

My recollection is that a Godzilla doesn't weigh much more than a Coyote, so going to a 'loomnum block in a smaller displacement would dang near make it a featherweight.

 

I'm not sure what it would actually gain you in an F-150 (possibly excluding the Raptor). On paper, the numbers for the F-150's 5.0 and Super Duty's 7.3 are not that far apart; obviously, they're not exactly apples to apples, but a NA 6.8 in F-150 trim would still probably come in somewhere between the Coyote and EB35, which seems like a non-starter in that lineup--Mustang needs the volume of the F-150 to keep the V8 viable, and they're all-in on EcoBoost, so reducing either one seems highly unlikely. The 6.8 would have to outperform the EB35 to make sense in the F-150, IMHO, which means it would effectively have to outperform the 7.3, which would seem unlikely if it is based on the 7.3.

 

Now, if the 6.8 is a Coyote derivative rather than a Godzilla derivative, that could all change.
 

If it's a Godzilla derivative, it makes a heck of a lot of sense in the Super Duties, though. If you replace the "old" workhorse 6.2 and consolidate its manufacturing with Godzilla, you simplify both production of the mill and the logistics of producing its host truck, and it doesn't have to fit into a gap between the other engines in the lineup.

 

Coyote long block - 425 lbs

7.3 Godzilla long block - 540 lbs  

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2 hours ago, SteelyD said:

Ford prefers the screw charger over the roots.

 

Ford has been running Eaton TVS superchargers since 2013 which is a roots style rotor with notable durability and slight efficiency advantages over twin screw rotors of similar displacement.  

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11 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

A OHV 6.8 would be significantly cheaper to build than the Coyote. 

This will be the primary goal of a 6.8L Godzilla, regardless of what Ford Marketing says.

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5 hours ago, 30 OTT 6 said:

This will be the primary goal of a 6.8L Godzilla, regardless of what Ford Marketing says.

 

And perhaps also higher MPG/lower emission than the 6.2.

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4 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

And perhaps also higher MPG/lower emission than the 6.2.

 

If you pair the “baby Godzilla” with a hybrid powertrain, you might even have a game-changer in the Super Duty lineup. 

 

ETA: Although I had read that the 6.2 was exclusive to the F-250, it's not, and it's really not that far from the 7.3's numbers. It seems to me that a 6.8's major advantages would be that its design progenitor is built around the medium duty cycle and it's going to be cheaper than the 6.2.

Edited by SoonerLS

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1 hour ago, SoonerLS said:

 

If you pair the “baby Godzilla” with a hybrid powertrain, you might even have a game-changer in the Super Duty lineup. 

 

ETA: Although I had read that the 6.2 was exclusive to the F-250, it's not, and it's really not that far from the 7.3's numbers. It seems to me that a 6.8's major advantages would be that its design progenitor is built around the medium duty cycle and it's going to be cheaper than the 6.2.

 

I think you pretty much nail it with your two posts. 6.8 will be cheaper to make than 6.2 due to sharing production line with 7.3. And the medium duty cycle is a lot more attractive to fleet buyers.

 

6.2 is also in E-350 which also received the 7.3 as upgrade option. So I think you maybe onto something here with the hybrid theory and the medium duty cycle baked into the design. I can see 6.8 hybrid become the standard powertrain on Super Duty and E-series with 7.3 being optional.

 

The aluminum block will shave 150+ lbs from the weight which can be shifted to hybrid components without eating too much into payload. Smaller displacement plus hybrid will get really impressive MPG for the kind of low speed stop and go application. Think about the smaller local fleet operators with decent size fleet of  box van, shuttle bus, or package delivery step van that are not ready to go full EV like the large national fleet operators. A hybrid option would be really attractive. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by bzcat

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13 hours ago, bzcat said:

The aluminum block will shave 150+ lbs from the weight

 

That hasn't been the case in with previous iron to aluminum block transitions.  

The 4.6 lost ~80 lbs going from iron to aluminum with steel sleeves

The 5.4 lost ~110 lbs going from iron to aluminum with PWTA liners 

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On 6/23/2021 at 10:12 AM, bzcat said:

 

I think you pretty much nail it with your two posts. 6.8 will be cheaper to make than 6.2 due to sharing production line with 7.3. And the medium duty cycle is a lot more attractive to fleet buyers.

 

6.2 is also in E-350 which also received the 7.3 as upgrade option. So I think you maybe onto something here with the hybrid theory and the medium duty cycle baked into the design. I can see 6.8 hybrid become the standard powertrain on Super Duty and E-series with 7.3 being optional.

 

The aluminum block will shave 150+ lbs from the weight which can be shifted to hybrid components without eating too much into payload. Smaller displacement plus hybrid will get really impressive MPG for the kind of low speed stop and go application. Think about the smaller local fleet operators with decent size fleet of  box van, shuttle bus, or package delivery step van that are not ready to go full EV like the large national fleet operators. A hybrid option would be really attractive. 

 

 

 

 

 

The 6.2 is no longer listed for E350 and has been effectively replaced by 300 hp and 350 hp 7.3 V8,

so I’m thinking  that will also happen in SD after the 6.2 is fully withdrawn.

 

 The 6.8 will be more than just another engine with half a litre less than the 7.3, it indicates much

more in the way a shorter stroke performance engine would be presented, still with decent capacity

but with much better high rpm breathing.

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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