tbone Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, akirby said: As far as software, you don’t have a right to the software. You only have a right to use just like every other app or piece of software. The licensor retains the right to modify it. Now if you paid for a feature that was removed then you might have a case but adding new features like this are perfectly legal. The situation seems to be evolving. With farmers fighting Deere for the right to repair they have recently gained the ability to have access to the software, in order to repair their own tractors or have an independent shop do it. This appears to be coming to automobiles, and other consumer electronics such as smartphones, tablets, computers and even household appliances. Edited March 3, 2023 by tbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 5 hours ago, Rick73 said: Only when it comes to Big Brother mentality. Since when is a finance company being able to get THEIR property back big brother? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I’m not saying it isn’t default. I’m saying it’s not theft. The two are not the same thing. Po-tay-to/Po-tah-to You're right that it’s not a criminal act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 10 hours ago, akirby said: Since when is a finance company being able to get THEIR property back big brother? Did I not make it clear that I support repossession? However, I evaluate things not only short-term but also long-term, and consider unintended consequences associated with pretty much everything. In that light, the end often doesn’t justify the means. Making it easier for Ford (or others) to repossess a car is not my priority when choosing a car to buy. And to be clear, I pay cash so it’s not because I want to “steal” it. I personally don’t like that a car I’m driving could be controlled remotely, period. I know technology is already here, but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. Honestly, I don’t care if others like the technology and can justify it for whatever reason they want; I’m just not going to be a willing participant. Granted, in time manufacturers won’t give me a choice. Bottom line is Ford can patent and build whatever they want, and buyers will choose based on what they value, just like it has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Do we know if other manufacturers were trying to develop something like this and Ford beat them to it, so now they will all use it if able? Guessing this will become standard so all manufacturers can help protect their financing arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 13 hours ago, tbone said: The situation seems to be evolving. With farmers fighting Deere for the right to repair they have recently gained the ability to have access to the software, in order to repair their own tractors or have an independent shop do it. This appears to be coming to automobiles, and other consumer electronics such as smartphones, tablets, computers and even household appliances. Yeah, to his previous point, it’s not that most of us want to “own” the software in our phones or tablets, it’s more about having to agree to 10 pages of terms and conditions in fine print written by a corporate lawyer intentionally worded so it’s ambiguous and can’t be comprehended by normal people. And since we can’t function in modern life without smart devices, we are forced to accept all of it even when we have no clue what we are agreeing to. The worst part is they know we don’t have a choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 53 minutes ago, Black Label said: Do we know if other manufacturers were trying to develop something like this and Ford beat them to it, so now they will all use it if able? Guessing this will become standard so all manufacturers can help protect their financing arm. They probably wouldn’t use Ford they would just have to license it from Ford if they want to use it. It also doesn’t mean Ford will actually use it. They’re just protecting the idea in case anyone decides to use it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 33 minutes ago, akirby said: They probably wouldn’t use Ford they would just have to license it from Ford if they want to use it. It also doesn’t mean Ford will actually use it. They’re just protecting the idea in case anyone decides to use it. So, what I am getting at is saying one would never buy a Ford because of this would probably end up meaning not buying a vehicle from anyone since they will all likely end up using the technology as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Those software rules (terms and conditions) have existed that way for 50 years. You just didn’t care because it didn’t affect your tractor or car. Most of these are necessary to protect the software developer from piracy and liability from unauthorized use or modification. The easy solution for vehicles is to simply disable the modem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 19 hours ago, T-dubz said: With ford quality and software issues as of late, you don’t have to worry, it won’t work anyways ? I was going to say, too bad they don't invent a program to have a loaner car drive to you every time you get stuck, but at this rate, they'd run out of cars. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 19 hours ago, T-dubz said: With ford quality and software issues as of late, you don’t have to worry, it won’t work anyways ? You say it as a joke, but what if it doesn’t work correctly for real? Just one of many potential issues — can any manufacturer guarantee the system won’t be hacked, or misused for nefarious reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 58 minutes ago, akirby said: They probably wouldn’t use Ford they would just have to license it from Ford if they want to use it. It also doesn’t mean Ford will actually use it. They’re just protecting the idea in case anyone decides to use it. Very true. This is from a Forbes 2014 article on patents, "Of today’s 2.1 million active patents, 95 percent fail to be licensed or commercialized." https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2014/06/18/13633/?sh=746070586f1c 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 33 minutes ago, Rick73 said: You say it as a joke, but what if it doesn’t work correctly for real? Just one of many potential issues — can any manufacturer guarantee the system won’t be hacked, or misused for nefarious reasons? Anything can be hacked over time. I don't want to jump down a rabbit-hole of "whataboutisms" because this is a concept only and more work needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 On 3/2/2023 at 10:14 PM, akirby said: Since when is a finance company being able to get THEIR property back big brother? It's not their property, they just hold a security interest in it. But I do agree that it's not big brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 If this gets out and Ford is the only mfr. to implement it, goodbye to Ford sales! Due to the onset of computerization, I've already made the decision decades ago that I will NEVER buy a new car again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jniffen Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 If it’s self driving, that will open a whole new can of worms. Disabling the car and notifying its location, OK sure. But I am totally not seeing self driving cars without accidents happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 11 hours ago, Joe771476 said: If this gets out and Ford is the only mfr. to implement it, goodbye to Ford sales! Due to the onset of computerization, I've already made the decision decades ago that I will NEVER buy a new car again! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 One Connecticut official said that in an effort to eliminate wrong way crashes, they were tossing around the idea to disable vehicle computers/engines, which apparently is doable due to the latest technology. But he wasn't sure about the wisdom of actually implementing it. And I think he's right; it would open up a can of worms and might put the errant motorist in a vulnerable position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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