2024 Ford F-150 Raptor R spotted

[rmc523]

15 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Someone said that there would be ALOT of product refreshes over the next 24 months or so...guess that is what is going on. Ford isn't going to tease them 6 months ahead of time officially...they'll open the order banks up a month or less after they are shown officially. 

 

A lot of refreshes is a good thing - they've let too many products go too long between redesigns (MCE or full) recently.

 

My point was more of how we've seen completely uncovered '24 F-150 "regular", Tremor, and Raptor / Raptor R, uncovered '24 Explorer, uncovered '24 Aviator in the last week or two.  Normally they're better at keeping them covered up before they're ready to show them.

[akirby]

23 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Normally they're better at keeping them covered up before they're ready to show them.

These were no accidental reveals.

[rmc523]

8 minutes ago, akirby said:

These were no accidental reveals.

 

Guess I don't see the point of basically showing them already - must mean they're further off than we think....otherwise they'd just show them?

[silvrsvt]

18 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Guess I don't see the point of basically showing them already - must mean they're further off than we think....otherwise they'd just show them?

 

I'd say if recent history is anything go by, we will see the official unveiling of product within the next 6 months or so. Someone said there is a lot coming and Ford doesn't want product to get drowned out because of something else.

 

It looks like the whole line up outside of the Bronco, Bronco Sport, Mach E and Escape/Corsair will be getting a refresh between now and the end of 2024 at the latest?

[ausrutherford]

On 7/7/2023 at 5:11 AM, fuzzymoomoo said:

I heard something similar last night from someone in my cycling group. 

 

I'm sure COVID had a lot to do with the delay of facelifts for many. 

[ExplorerDude]

MY2024 will be a busy one but these refreshes and redesigns follow a regular cadence of 3-4 years.

 

2024 F-150, (originally all-new for 2021)

2024 Explorer, (originally all-new for 2020)

2024 Ranger, (originally “all-new” for 2019)

2024 Mustang, (last refresh for 2018)

2024 Nautilus, (last refresh 2021, major refresh 2019)

 

2025 Aviator, (originally all-new for 2020)

2025 Expedition, (last refresh 2022)

2025 Maverick, (originally all-new for 2022)

2025 Bronco, (originally all-new for 2021)

2025 Bronco Sport, (originally all-new for 2021)

 

etc. etc……

Edited July 10, 2023 by ExplorerDude

[rmc523]

14 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

MY2024 will be a busy one but these refreshes and redesigns follow a regular cadence of 3-4 years.

 

2024 F-150, (originally all-new for 2021)

2024 Explorer, (originally all-new for 2020)

2024 Ranger, (originally “all-new” for 2019)

2024 Mustang, (last refresh for 2018)

2024 Nautilus, (last refresh 2021, major refresh 2019)

 

2025 Aviator, (originally all-new for 2020)

2025 Expedition, (last refresh 2022)

2025 Maverick, (originally all-new for 2022)

2025 Bronco, (originally all-new for 2021)

2025 Bronco Sport, (originally all-new for 2021)

 

etc. etc……

 

Aviator should be '24 as well, no?

 

Are Expy/Navi '24 or '25?

 

I didn't realize there's a Bronco refresh coming.

[jasonj80]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:49 AM, ausrutherford said:

 

I'm sure COVID had a lot to do with the delay of facelifts for many. 

Covid was some of the delay but the fact that the company is diverting basically all resources toward electric has changed the MCE schedule; MCE, nip tucks and special editions have been scaled back/cancelled for a lot of the legacy products in the 2025-2027.  As one employee said "If the market doesn't adapt electric at the rate Farley/Ford thinks we are basically totally F*****,  worse lately it is all buzzwords and corporate BS". They said it is scary as Ford's own surveys are showing total electric market share below what they will be able to produce come 2027-2030. I'm guessing that is why the UAW and other unions are now publicly speaking out/lobbying against the rate and being vocal that the adoption time frame needs to change.  

 

[GearheadGrrrl]

Ford isn't the only automaker betting almost everything on rapid electrification- Look at GM and VW. Later in this decade when all they'll have is holdover IC cars to supplement the slow selling EVs, some smaller automakers, Stelantis, and Toyota who haven't bet their billions on EVs alone may have a great growth opportunity. 

[Gurgeh]

13 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Ford isn't the only automaker betting almost everything on rapid electrification- Look at GM and VW. Later in this decade when all they'll have is holdover IC cars to supplement the slow selling EVs, some smaller automakers, Stelantis, and Toyota who haven't bet their billions on EVs alone may have a great growth opportunity. 

I think it is plausible that car buyers may not prefer to make as quick a transition from ICE to EV as Ford/GM/VW are expecting. But that assumes governments will permit car buyers to keep buying what they would like. Given the way things are going, that's not a bet I would take.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Gurgeh

[akirby]

10 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

I think it is plausible that car buyers may not prefer to make as quick a transition from ICE to EV as Ford/GM/VW are expecting. But that assumes governments will permit car buyers to keep buying what they would like. Given the way things are going, that's not a bet I would take.

That’s the rub.  It may not matter what buyers want.  We’re already seeing that in Europe.  Ford is trying to be ready if that happens but it’s definitely a balancing act.  If they cut back too much on ICE and EV adoption slows down they could get caught out.  If they don’t move fast and EVs go faster they get caught out.  It’s strictly a guessing game at this point and nobody knows how fast it will move.

 

I don’t see a problem halting new ICE platform and powertrain development.  The current ones are fantastic already and cover all the bases.  New EV platforms, batteries and powertrains are needed no matter what.

 

To me the big issue is factory conversions.  Once they convert Oakville to BEV I don’t think you can go back.  New plants like BOC are no brainers since they don’t take away ICE capacity but they’re also way more expensive.  
 

I think they should wait to see what happens with ICE production at existing factories when next Gen BEVs roll out before converting more factories. And build another BOC if they need BEV capacity.

[silvrsvt]

40 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think they should wait to see what happens with ICE production at existing factories when next Gen BEVs roll out before converting more factories. And build another BOC if they need BEV capacity.

 

Since 1990s (maybe even longer then that), Ford hasn't finished a brand new/greenfield assembly plant in North America -BOC still isn't done yet so that doesn't count. I don't think they are going to spend billons just to build a new BOC style plant when they have several existing plants that can be upgraded. 

 

As for BEV adaption rates-there are lots of short term issues with the market-inflation, pricing issues with EVs, high interest rates and just shitty reporting about it (like misinterpreting Ford's 600K goal as a North American one instead of world wide)

[Gurgeh]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

To me the big issue is factory conversions.  Once they convert Oakville to BEV I don’t think you can go back.  New plants like BOC are no brainers since they don’t take away ICE capacity but they’re also way more expensive.  
 

I think they should wait to see what happens with ICE production at existing factories when next Gen BEVs roll out before converting more factories. And build another BOC if they need BEV capacity.

 

...and those conversions can have real consequences. The Oakville conversion means no Edge (a topic of spirited discussion elsewhere here on BOF), even though the product still exists in China and there is still North American demand for a 2-row midsized Ford crossover. It also nearly left Lincoln with only three products to sell, a problem only fixed by bringing the all-new Nautilus in from the Chinese plant of theirs that makes it (and the Edge) for the domestic Chinese market. That was, in my view, a necessary decision but not an easy one and not one devoid of controversy here in Ford's home market.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

 

...and those conversions can have real consequences. The Oakville conversion means no Edge (a topic of spirited discussion elsewhere here on BOF), even though the product still exists in China and there is still North American demand for a 2-row midsized Ford crossover. It also nearly left Lincoln with only three products to sell, a problem only fixed by bringing the all-new Nautilus in from the Chinese plant of theirs that makes it (and the Edge) for the domestic Chinese market. That was, in my view, a necessary decision but not an easy one and not one devoid of controversy here in Ford's home market.

 

That Chinese Edge isn't right anyway.  It's different than our Edge's form factor, IMO.

[tbone]

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

That Chinese Edge isn't right anyway.  It's different than our Edge's form factor, IMO.

Agreed, I don’t think that Edge styling would fly here. 

[tbone]

7 hours ago, akirby said:

That’s the rub.  It may not matter what buyers want.  We’re already seeing that in Europe.  Ford is trying to be ready if that happens but it’s definitely a balancing act.  If they cut back too much on ICE and EV adoption slows down they could get caught out.  If they don’t move fast and EVs go faster they get caught out.  It’s strictly a guessing game at this point and nobody knows how fast it will move.

 

I don’t see a problem halting new ICE platform and powertrain development.  The current ones are fantastic already and cover all the bases.  New EV platforms, batteries and powertrains are needed no matter what.

 

To me the big issue is factory conversions.  Once they convert Oakville to BEV I don’t think you can go back.  New plants like BOC are no brainers since they don’t take away ICE capacity but they’re also way more expensive.  
 

I think they should wait to see what happens with ICE production at existing factories when next Gen BEVs roll out before converting more factories. And build another BOC if they need BEV capacity.

I think by my posts it’s evident I am a proponent of a slow transition to BEV based on consumer demand versus government mandate, however, I do believe Ford is in a undesirable position to be subjected to the uncertainty of what will be mandated and a more traditional market driven transition.  I hope these plants they are building and converting are flexible enough to build both types of vehicles to accommodate whatever the future may hold.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, tbone said:

I think by my posts it’s evident I am a proponent of a slow transition to BEV based on consumer demand versus government mandate, however, I do believe Ford is in a undesirable position to be subjected to the uncertainty of what will be mandated and a more traditional market driven transition.  I hope these plants they are building and converting are flexible enough to build both types of vehicles to accommodate whatever the future may hold.

 

The issue is that there is a hard deadline in the EU in 2035 and the US wants half of new car sales to be EVs in 2030 with 11 CARB states wanting either EV sales only in 2035 or significantly higher sales of EVs. The 7 that want EV sales only also make up 7 out of the top 20 best selling states for vehicles also. 

 

The current ICE lineup can last another 10-12 years with updates. 

Outside of the Edge, what other ICE products are going away? All the EVs coming are additional products to the current line up. The replacements for the ICE products come post 2030-7 years plus from now. I think we'll have a much better idea of what is happening in the next five years with demand.