rperez817 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, Rangers09 said: It would be interesting to see how many people actually thoroughly consider their needs before purchasing a vehicle. I just shake my head when I see 2 F-150 size pick-ups in a driveway that aren't work trucks. I'll suggest few families needs require 2 pick-ups. Good point Rangers09. In the U.S. (maybe in Canada too), automotive retailing is a fashion and image oriented business, not one that emphasizes rational decision making on the part of consumers. As rmc523 said, "people buy what they want". Or maybe what automotive marketers convince consumers they "need", as opposed to what they actually need. It's a successful business model for Ford. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 2 hours ago, rmc523 said: Or.....people buy what they want, and who cares what they "need"....... Exactly...much like being TOLD to get vacinnated I will not be told what I should and shouldnt buy/ drive with MY money, and then theres the rolling blackouts during which time, if I did follow ORDERS I couldnt charge my electric car and get to work....or cook if they go after gas stoves......my little 2 dr Badlands stick shift 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, Deanh said: Exactly...much like being TOLD to get vacinnated I will not be told what I should and shouldnt buy/ drive with MY money, and then theres the rolling blackouts during which time, if I did follow ORDERS I couldnt charge my electric car and get to work....or cook if they go after gas stoves......my little 2 dr Badlands stick shift Looks great! Haven't seen a body color grille before either. Turned out nicely! Have you had any issues with your top cracking by the back of the rear passenger side window? I just had the rear portion replaced, only for them to notice the texture was worn off the bottom of it when I took delivery, so I'll be getting another replacement rear top.....hopefully it's less creaky than the first replacement I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Looks great! Haven't seen a body color grille before either. Turned out nicely! Have you had any issues with your top cracking by the back of the rear passenger side window? I just had the rear portion replaced, only for them to notice the texture was worn off the bottom of it when I took delivery, so I'll be getting another replacement rear top.....hopefully it's less creaky than the first replacement I got. havent noticed anything, but my eyes are peeled..then again its been ignored a bit as Ive been driving this....things unreal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: It's a successful business model for Ford. Not just Ford, other auto manufacturers as well. Actually, most companies doing business in free markets also benefit from buyers purchasing more than they need, even when it’s considered bad for them. I wasn’t complaining about people buying large cars, just stating that electrification won’t accomplish much if not accompanied by some downsizing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 18 minutes ago, Deanh said: havent noticed anything, but my eyes are peeled..then again its been ignored a bit as Ive been driving this....things unreal... I'm jealous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I'm jealous! Im broke....LMAO.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Deanh said: Im broke....LMAO.... Wait, they're both yours? The Raptor isn't a demo? Quick, go put a fake charge port on it so we're not derailing this thread too much haha.... Edited July 20, 2023 by rmc523 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Wait, they're both yours? The Raptor isn't a demo? Quick, go put a fake charge port on it so we're not derailing this thread too much haha.... yep...our Driveway looks pretty intimidating...2 full size, One Bronco Sport....we sold a rental I splurged...and no more tenants thk goodness....sorry to derail...back on subject...El;ectric cars resale hasnt been mentioned...its abysmyl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 14 minutes ago, Deanh said: yep...our Driveway looks pretty intimidating...2 full size, One Bronco Sport....we sold a rental I splurged...and no more tenants thk goodness....sorry to derail...back on subject...El;ectric cars resale hasnt been mentioned...its abysmyl Congrats on the apparent horse stable! Haha Oh yeah, I've heard they're nowhere near projections........I wonder if that's over concerns of battery degredation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 as Ive stated, the EV market has cooled significantly...I have a classic example, when the Mach E was first released it was a feeding frenzy, we had a bunch of Doctors ( remember that...DOCTORS ) that all put in orders asa group, we werent marking them up like some accompaning dealers so they were bought at MSRP. They were paying cask and then literally driving them to Carmax and selling them for upwards onf 10,000 OVER Msrp, so even allowing for 5k in DMV and Taxes, they were banking 5 thousand bucks....they bought approx 8 units , when we found out we stopped ordering for them. Now keep in mind that 10000 over MSRP, I now have a rental company that bought several units that is $15000 in the hole compared with his payoff....thats pretty much a 25k swing in market value if not more as he does put 10% as a downpayment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) A quick look through National inventory with dealers, there’s over 7,000 Mach Es in stock, the majority of them are split between GT and Premium trims but what’s surprising is that there’s a 50/50 split on battery size, so this looks like Ford still searching for the sweet spot for what walk in buyers want. Now this might not be the disaster the media is painting but seriously, Ford needs to get that dealer stock trim and battery mix right while Mach E has the buyers eye and not waste the fact that Mach E is the closest thing Ford has to a Tesla Y competitor. Deanh, I just read your post above, maybe the moment has passed for Mach E, if buyers are pulling back from EVs, then maybe getting dealer stock right becomes even more important to move what’s being given. I sense another Ford snafu is evolving now and the dealers will be expected to “clean up the mess” Edited July 20, 2023 by jpd80 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Rangers09 said: It would be interesting to see how many people actually thoroughly consider their needs before purchasing a vehicle. I just shake my head when I see 2 F-150 size pick-ups in a driveway that aren't work trucks. I'll suggest few families needs require 2 pick-ups. I love it when people think they know what other people need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Deanh said: havent noticed anything, but my eyes are peeled..then again its been ignored a bit as Ive been driving this....things unreal... I can understand why, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 55 minutes ago, Deanh said: Im broke....LMAO.... Which was why I sold this in short order, and as well as too many people pressuring me to buy it! And I needed the truck more. It was a sad day though? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, jpd80 said: A quick look through National inventory with dealers, there’s over 7,000 Mach Es in stock, the majority of them are split between GT and Premium trims but what’s surprising is that there’s a 50/50 split on battery size, so this looks like Ford still searching for the sweet spot for what walk in buyers want. Now this might not be the disaster the media is painting but seriously, Ford needs to get that dealer stock trim and battery mix right while Mach E has the buyers eye and not waste the fact that Mach E is the closest thing Ford has to a Tesla Y competitor. Deanh, I just read your post above, maybe the moment has passed for Mach E, if buyers are pulling back from EVs, then maybe getting dealer stock right becomes even more important to move what’s being given. I sense another Ford snafu is evolving now and the dealers will be expected to “clean up the mess” they went all in and they went all in hard and then because of the craziness at the start came up with their "E" dealer model thinking it was the Holy Grail....bad move IMO, remember when they went all in in SUVs as well?.....and then got NAILED when gas prices spiked....its basically what put Toyota in the position they are today, they make reserved decisions...notice they have exactly jumped headlong into Electrics at all...smart move?... Edited July 20, 2023 by Deanh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, tbone said: Which was why I sold this in short order, and as well as too many people pressuring me to buy it! And I needed the truck more. It was a sad day though? Im guessing you did ok...I priced mine 6 months after I bought it and the MSRP had literally gone up 10k....rather a special vehicle IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Deanh said: Im guessing you did ok...I priced mine 6 months after I bought it and the MSRP had literally gone up 10k....rather a special vehicle IMO. Yes I did, which was nice, but it was a badass Bronco so it still didn’t feel good. I’m guessing they are still pretty high now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, tbone said: Yes I did, which was nice, but it was a badass Bronco so it still didn’t feel good. I’m guessing they are still pretty high now. yep....Dealers have got some crazy addendums on them for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, Deanh said: ....its basically what put Toyota in the position they are today, they make reserved decisions...notice they have exactly jumped headlong into Electrics at all...smart move?... Toyota was seen as lagging behind on BEV's which prompted a bunch of US hedge fund investors a few months back to demand the new CEO step down. Of course he didn't, but Toyota is now all-in BEV's spending oodles of money and developing several new BEV platforms. https://electrek.co/2023/05/10/toyota-creating-dedicated-bev-platform-next-gen-evs/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, mackinaw said: Toyota was seen as lagging behind on BEV's which prompted a bunch of US hedge fund investors a few months back to demand the new CEO step down. Of course he didn't, but Toyota is now all-in BEV's spending oodles of money and developing several new BEV platforms. https://electrek.co/2023/05/10/toyota-creating-dedicated-bev-platform-next-gen-evs/ BUT...and its a big but...they are also making a lot of hybrids and have a couple of hydrogen cars as well....its a bit more diverse...plus I think itmay be an advantage being a little late to the party...especially since they are witnessing the market slow down substantially...not only that, but sitting back and watching all the EV startups fail miserably didnt exactly build any confidence either....I bet they are somewhat glad they sat back and watched the mayhem... Edited July 20, 2023 by Deanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Deanh said: BUT...and its a big but...they are also making a lot of hybrids and have a couple of hydrogen cars as well....its a bit more diverse...plus I think itmay be an advantage being a little late to the party...especially since they are witnessing the market slow down substantially...not only that, but sitting back and watching all the EV startups fail miserably didnt exactly build any confidence either....I bet they are somewhat glad they sat back and watched the mayhem... Watch the first four minutes of this Autoline Daily. Toyota is in rapid catch-up mode on EV's. http://www.autoline.tv/daily/?p=87785 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, mackinaw said: Watch the first four minutes of this Autoline Daily. Toyota is in rapid catch-up mode on EV's. http://www.autoline.tv/daily/?p=87785 Thanks for that link mackinaw. McElroy's statement at 3:24 in the video sums it up nicely, "saving face". Toyota Motor and Akio conveniently timed the announcement of their BEV engineering efforts 1 day before the shareholder's meeting. It remains to be seen if those engineering efforts pay off for Toyota. Nowadays, Toyota remains a laggard in the global auto industry when it comes to BEV. And in the U.S. market their 2 e-TNGA models on sale currently (bZ4X and Lexus RZ) are worst in class products, at least a generation behind Mustang Mach-E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 37 minutes ago, mackinaw said: Watch the first four minutes of this Autoline Daily. Toyota is in rapid catch-up mode on EV's. http://www.autoline.tv/daily/?p=87785 Id still be exceptionally wary of BEVs if I was a manufacturer, cant say I blame Toyota for its "hesitation" for several reasons, primarily sustainable profitability.....and Im not so sure, as stated pandering to Hedge fund managers is such a wise move either ( when did they become experts in the Auto industries? )....so glad ICE isnt going away any time soon....and what if synthetic gas all of a sudden becomes affordable and can be utilized with minimal retrofit to the current ICE crop....I for one do NOT want to be dependent on an electricity supplier for my livelihood, that has the potential for one huge FAIL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Deanh said: Id still be exceptionally wary of BEVs if I was a manufacturer, cant say I blame Toyota for its "hesitation" What consumers and investors should be "exceptionally wary" of are intransigent, pigheaded automotive industry executives like Akio Toyoda who spread misinformation about BEV. Toyota CEO shows lack of vision, spreads EV misinformation, and spells the end for the automaker | Electrek Toyota's "hesitation" has cost it plenty. Toyota customers in the U.S. are defecting from the brand in droves in favor of automakers that are taking BEV seriously, especially Tesla. In the latest owner loyalty survey by S&P Global, Toyota dropped to #7 among mass market brands. Just a few years ago, they were #2. Toyota Slips in Brand Loyalty Rankings as Customers Turn to Tesla - EVMagz Edited July 21, 2023 by rperez817 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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