Changan Ford Takes Over Mustang Mach-E Operations in China

[Oac98]

9 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

The original Taurus of 1985 was controversial and polarizing and went on to define American styling in the 1980's.  

It would be nice if that happens for this mysterious vehicle 

[jasonj80]

American consumers like a style with chunky styling elements, what's interesting is that the Explorer EV (EU) was designed with this in mind as Ford of EU goes with "American Styling". Look at the well received Kia EV9 which this vehicle will be going up against, the you have the  Bronco Sport, Bronco, Land Cruiser and even the Rav4 and new CR-V which are very popular and all have a chunky yet aero style. The Escape facelift added some chunk and creases to make it look more boxy to appeal to American Consumers as well. 

The styling of the Smaller Explorer EU would probably sell better here than the slick Mach-E styled. You can only do limited sleek style for American Consumers; even the original 86 Taurus while aero had some chunk to it with very hard character lines on the side and hood. When Ford went to Aero (1996 Taurus/Sable, MKT) it was not well received in the market.

 

[silvrsvt]

24 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

When Ford went to Aero (1996 Taurus/Sable, MKT) it was not well received in the market.

 

The issue with the 1996 Taurus was someone got too happy with oval template and if I remember right the pricing was increased dramatically for it at the time. 

 

The reskin in the early 2000s fixed that. 

[bzcat]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The issue with the 1996 Taurus was someone got too happy with oval template and if I remember right the pricing was increased dramatically for it at the time. 

 

The reskin in the early 2000s fixed that. 

 

There was definitely something wrong with Ford's design template during that time. All 3 large sedans from that period looked like turds: Mk3 Taurus, Mk 2 Scorpio, AU Falcon

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

There was definitely something wrong with Ford's design template during that time. All 3 large sedans from that period looked like turds: Mk3 Taurus, Mk 2 Scorpio, AU Falcon

Add in the Mustang too. The “New Edge”

styling didn’t work out too well for most products of that era. 

[jpd80]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Except they’re dominating a very small market in the overall scheme which right now has a limited ceiling.  And a lot of Tesla buyers are Musk fans and may not even consider another brand right now.  
 

I agree it seems like Ford and Farley are overreacting here in an attempt to eke out the last few miles of range or last few dollars of cost and it might backfire big time.

 

1. the profits Tesla is making globally are coming close to that of Ford, the fact that Tesla is doing that with basically two compacts speaks to the uniqueness of the brand to capture those early adopters. While the 3 and Y will have a limited ceiling, those vehicles still have a ways to go in China, Nth America and Europe - the point being once that happens, it will be much harder for the competition to get even a small foot hold.

 

2. Over reaction is what Ford often does because it’s often tardy to change and then rushes like a giant elephant with single focus on the new goal…..I was wondering how long it would take them to rediscover the value of hybrids reaching a lot more buyers and educating those people about the virtues of electrification…….it’s like Ford felt they had to compete with GM’s all in policy on BEVs when they had affordable hybrids that basically sell themselves.

 

Quote

But the biggest problem I see is they’re changing direction and stopping/restarting too much.  First Rivian then VW.  Either they’re making bad decisions at first or they’re chasing perfection and changing when something a little better comes along.  Sometimes you just have to say this is good enough and get it out the door.

 

Luckily it sounds like that’s not the case for T3 as you would expect.

3. So frustrating for all of us watching Ford constantly tear up and re do plans, being off course once is bad enough but this smacks of Ford being more reactionary than proactive, picking the wrong course just because you boss Bill Ford want electrification over everything else is not smart. I sometimes wonder if Ford wouldn’t have been better off not rushing their BEV plans as much and letting their pre-Covid hybrid PHEV ideas take hold….

 

4. With regards to F150 T3 platform,  I think they were on the right idea with Powerboost 3.5 EB but maybe try that with the baby 2.7 EB as a lower cost option, the point being available on site power for trades and recreational purposes. That is Ford’s new focus now…..for the moment.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by jpd80

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

American consumers like a style with chunky styling elements, what's interesting is that the Explorer EV (EU) was designed with this in mind as Ford of EU goes with "American Styling". Look at the well received Kia EV9 which this vehicle will be going up against, the you have the  Bronco Sport, Bronco, Land Cruiser and even the Rav4 and new CR-V which are very popular and all have a chunky yet aero style. The Escape facelift added some chunk and creases to make it look more boxy to appeal to American Consumers as well. 

The styling of the Smaller Explorer EU would probably sell better here than the slick Mach-E styled. You can only do limited sleek style for American Consumers; even the original 86 Taurus while aero had some chunk to it with very hard character lines on the side and hood. When Ford went to Aero (1996 Taurus/Sable, MKT) it was not well received in the market.
 

To me it’s an example of Ford having its plans backward, they’re dumping their Euro vehicle styling to embrace chunky US styled utilities while Ford US looks to be moving to swept aero styled BEVs.
 

I have issues with Ford Europe using the Explorer name for that Vehicle, it’s like they will burn through iconic names just to get a foothold in a market. They could have reverted to the Kuga EV name and taken the win.

 

Whatever Ford has planned for Oakville better be more than a token show pony….I thought the Idea was gong to be three row Utilities but what’s being revealed is not really what buyers want, how can Ford continue to change plans and butcher the obvious chunky BEV Explorer/Aviator pair they should be building in Canada, are they afraid of the UAW potentially losing shifts at Chicago with an obvious internal competitor?

 

(sounds like Ford wants new EVs only if they don’t compete with current ICE vehicles, they truly are conflicted)

[Oac98]

18 hours ago, jpd80 said:

To me it’s an example of Ford having its plans backward, they’re dumping their Euro vehicle styling to embrace chunky US styled utilities while Ford US looks to be moving to swept aero styled BEVs.
 

I have issues with Ford Europe using the Explorer name for that Vehicle, it’s like they will burn through iconic names just to get a foothold in a market. They could have reverted to the Kuga EV name and taken the win.

 

Whatever Ford has planned for Oakville better be more than a token show pony….I thought the Idea was gong to be three row Utilities but what’s being revealed is not really what buyers want, how can Ford continue to change plans and butcher the obvious chunky BEV Explorer/Aviator pair they should be building in Canada, are they afraid of the UAW potentially losing shifts at Chicago with an obvious internal competitor?

 

(sounds like Ford wants new EVs only if they don’t compete with current ICE vehicles, they truly are conflicted)

In regards to what you’re saying about OAC I REALLY hope they lay out some more information soon. There are things going on at the plant I see lots of contractors and engineers walking around.  It could have something to do with Chicago and the UAW WHO KNOWS as to why they changed the styling. Like I’ve said several times I can’t see one saleable unit coming out of here til mid 25 at the earliest.  I believe though after the contract smoke clears more info with be forthcoming. 

[DeluxeStang]

22 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Add in the Mustang too. The “New Edge”

styling didn’t work out too well for most products of that era. 

The gen 1 focus was great looking for it's time. Everything else was very meh. 

[silvrsvt]

41 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

The gen 1 focus was great looking for it's time. Everything else was very meh. 

Yeah that and maybe the cougar where the best examples from that era. 

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Yeah that and maybe the cougar where the best examples from that era. 

The cougar's were pretty decent looking. My biggest gripe is they didn't really look that sporty/muscular for something wearing the cougar name. But that criticism applies to a lot of cars from around that time, like the 2000s GTO. 

 

I'm still bitter Ford never made the Mercury Messenger concept. That would have been a proper sporty coupe. The concept still looks good, I see a tiny bit of 2012 Mercedes SLS on the side window shape and general shape. 

[rmc523]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:57 PM, DeluxeStang said:

The cougar's were pretty decent looking. My biggest gripe is they didn't really look that sporty/muscular for something wearing the cougar name. But that criticism applies to a lot of cars from around that time, like the 2000s GTO. 

 

I'm still bitter Ford never made the Mercury Messenger concept. That would have been a proper sporty coupe. The concept still looks good, I see a tiny bit of 2012 Mercedes SLS on the side window shape and general shape. 

yeah I liked that Messenger concept.

[bzcat]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:25 AM, silvrsvt said:

Add in the Mustang too. The “New Edge”

styling didn’t work out too well for most products of that era. 

 

New Edge came later, mainly as a response to the disastrous oval period. Mk3 Taurus, Mk2 Scorpio, and AU Falcon were the last hurrah for Ford's "Aero" design language that was kicked off in 1982 with Sierra in Europe and 1983 Thunderbird in the US. It eventually lead to the oval period in the 90s (remember the oval grille opening and tail light on the Contour?). New Edge was a break from the oval period. New Edge featured more tapered lines and banished the ovals. Roughly speaking, if the car had any oval on it, it was not a New Edge car. The time period, based on when the design launched, roughly speaking is:

 

1982-1990: Classic Aero period

1991-1996: Late Aero period (aka Oval period)

1997-2005: New Edge

 

There are some overlap between the period of course due to designs being locked in ahead of production. 

 

New Edge technically first appeared on 1997 Ka while the rest of the Ford was still stuck in the oval period. But it wasn't called New Edge until the 1999 Focus came out, and soon followed by Cougar and Mk3 Mondeo. Most New Edge cars have aged quite well: Mk3 Mondeo, Mk1 Focus, Mk1 Escape, Mk1 Puma, Mk4 Fiesta, Ka, Cougar, Mk1 Transit Connect, Mk1 C-Max etc. 

 

The AU Falcon design is sometime credited as New Edge but design was locked in during the oval period but Ford Australia couldn't get funding to build it until the rest of the company has moved into the New Edge design language. A hastily organized redesign (AU II) incorporating New Edge elemented was launched even before AU was shown to the public. The AU was poorly received  and the AU II update didn't help very much and the AU was quickly abandoned (planned AY and AZ facelift never happened). The next gen BA Falcon was firmly rooted in the New Edge design language. The difference was pretty obvious. 

 

The New Edge Mustang (1999) is another compromised design and not a true reflection of New Edge. It was basically just a mild facelift of the 1994 SN95 Mustang from the Aero design language. The designers were not allowed to change any hard points of the body. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by bzcat