2024 North American Car, Truck, and SUV of the Year finalists

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

It's a trend, specifically, that the superiority of BEV in general keeps gaining more recognition in the automotive press as automakers introduce more of them. Hopefully in 5 years or less, 100% of the finalists will be BEV.

 

Bias in the process isn't an issue in NACTOY because 50 different jurors are involved independently. More information here.  Meet the NACTOY Jurors - North American Car Utility & Truck of the Year (northamericancaroftheyear.org)

rperez817, by bias I was thinking more about journalist versus regular buyers in general, thinking expectations could be very different.  My personal opinion is that journalist and many “car guys” tend to value things like acceleration from 0-60 more than average buyer, and at same time journalist don’t have to actually live with day-to-day disadvantages of BEVs under certain conditions.  This “bias” leads to many proponents to highlight BEB PROS while burying CONS. 
 

The finalist Genesis Electrified GV70 is an example where performance and aesthetic appeal could look and feel great initially and during a test drive, but how would an owner feel after taking it to visit grandma over Thanksgiving weekend?  I know road trips are not an everyday occurrence, but who wants to own an SUV that could be a hassle to take a trip in?  Even if I was going to do 90% of driving locally and charging at home, I’m not going to pay that much for a BEV SUV I wouldn’t feel comfortable driving on long road trips.  There are too many other options with fewer limitations and at much lower cost.

 

[GearheadGrrrl]

I'm not a professional journalist, but I've driven fast cars and love them. And while I have to compromise some ( VW Golfs, Ranger, and Transit Connect ) to get decent operating costs and utility in a car, almost none of the EVs available so far isn't full of unacceptable compromises like short range ( Transit EV ) , overpriced ( F150 Lightning ), intermittent power cuts ( Mach-E ), and general obesity. 

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Even if I was going to do 90% of driving locally and charging at home, I’m not going to pay that much for a BEV SUV I wouldn’t feel comfortable driving on long road trips.  There are too many other options with fewer limitations and at much lower cost.

 

But that is your option...not the only option.

 

Quick googling shows most people live less than 100 miles (not sure if it radius or actual distance) of their family. 3 in 10 live less than 20 miles from their Moms.

[rperez817]

56 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

I've driven fast cars and love them. 

 

You'll love Volvo EX30, one of the SUV of the Year finalists. The Twin Motor Performance variant of EX30 is the fastest accelerating Volvo car ever. 

 

[GearheadGrrrl]

SUVs by virtue of their high center of gravity are not performance vehicles... There's a reason SCCA won't let them autocross.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Unless one demands full electrification, the Golf GTI and R offer more and cost less.

[rperez817]

55 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

SUVs by virtue of their high center of gravity are not performance vehicles... There's a reason SCCA won't let them autocross.

 

Good points GearheadGrrrl. I should amend my previous statement to say "You'll love the quick acceleration Volvo EX30 provides". You are correct that a passenger car configuration would be better as an all-around performance BEV, especially for autocross or HPDE.

 

Maybe for the 2028 NACTOY awards, VW will have a production version of this as a nominee.

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But that is your option...not the only option.

 

Quick googling shows most people live less than 100 miles (not sure if it radius or actual distance) of their family. 3 in 10 live less than 20 miles from their Moms.

BEV option price premium seems high to me regardless of who buys it.  For the price of BEV GV70 I would also look at Lexus Hybrid SUV which seems a better value.

 

By the way, working with “average” needs is not a great idea when analyzing or solving many problems.  Ford’s logic determining E-Transit required range comes to mind as a misstep.  Required range of under 100 miles “on average” didn’t work out too well IMO.

 

[GearheadGrrrl]

Watched the intro for the EV only Golf 9 in the photo and was again underwhelmed- It's OK as a Euro market city car but with it's limited range and performance decline from past and current Golfs it's DOA in North America. Looks like Golf GTI and R 8.5 will be the high point of the Golf line and it's all downhill from here. Ford offering nothing in the hot hatch market, I'll probably be swooping up a Golf R 8.5 before they're discontinued.

[akirby]

Can we please stick to the NACOTY award and stop the continued pissing contest about BEVs and hybrids?

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Can we please stick to the NACOTY award and stop the continued pissing contest about BEVs and hybrids?

welcome to the "cult"...where EVERY discussion becomes about "that" narrative...makes me laugh at the barb about truck drivers....I bit my tongue...

Edited November 20, 2023 by Deanh

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, Deanh said:

welcome to the "cult"...where EVERY discussion becomes about "that" narrative...makes me laugh at the barb about truck drivers....I bit my tongue...

Not sure what you’re reading-it’s the anti EV people attacking the selection of EVs as COTY candidates. It’s just same ole same ole. Yeah we get you don’t like EVs but you’d don’t need to say something in every single thread. All without realizing that these awards are nothing more then paid advertising by the largest spend wins the award. 
 

And before you say anything about my views-I have no issues with hybrids but long term they are not the solution. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by silvrsvt

[bossman351]

On 11/17/2023 at 1:19 PM, rmc523 said:

 

I find the 6 to be odd looking and poorly proportioned with its odd, droopy rear end.

It gives Infiniti J30 vibes.

[Rick73]

Motor Trend’s Car Of The Year competition included the same three vehicles, the Honda Accord, Ionic 6 and Prius.

 

Accord was a contender but did not make it as a finalist.  Ionic 6 and Prius made it to finals, with Prius taking the award.

[Deanh]

17 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Not sure what you’re reading-it’s the anti EV people attacking the selection of EVs as COTY candidates. It’s just same ole same ole. Yeah we get you don’t like EVs but you’d don’t need to say something in every single thread. All without realizing that these awards are nothing more then paid advertising by the largest spend wins the award. 
 

And before you say anything about my views-I have no issues with hybrids but long term they are not the solution. 

annnnnnnnnnnnd, youd be wrong....I dont dislike EVs, damn near bought a Mach E myself, but couldnt justify a $60k "toy" with all of the ongoing warts and issues Im witnessing first hand...its just not EVs time yet and they are riddled with logistical and usage issues.What I cant stand is them being rammed down eveyones throats by virtue signaling twats ( and that is GOVT, Corprate and individuals ) that are so friggen brainwashed,  lecturing and berating other for not getting "on board" the propoganda train....it literally IS a friggen cult and Ill stand by that...

[silvrsvt]

32 minutes ago, Deanh said:

annnnnnnnnnnnd, youd be wrong....I dont dislike EVs, damn near bought a Mach E myself, but couldnt justify a $60k "toy" with all of the ongoing warts and issues Im witnessing first hand...its just not EVs time yet and they are riddled with logistical and usage issues.What I cant stand is them being rammed down eveyones throats by virtue signaling twats ( and that is GOVT, Corprate and individuals ) that are so friggen brainwashed,  lecturing and berating other for not getting "on board" the propoganda train....it literally IS a friggen cult and Ill stand by that...

 

And what push button topic isn't done that way recently? 

[Deanh]

18 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

And what push button topic isn't done that way recently? 

true...Im just not the type to cheerlead and blindly follow...for every so called "answer" theres a new set of issues, always has been,  always will be..and Im a firm proponent of choice , NOT having shite forced down my throat by nut jobs ( and thats putting it kindly ).  

[Texasota]

17 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

And before you say anything about my views-I have no issues with hybrids but long term they are not the solution. 

I’m really glad to hear you say that and I’m not being sarcastic or condescending. This is a welcome change from recent posts where you posted about “f…ing PHEVs” never being charged.

[silvrsvt]

14 minutes ago, Texasota said:

I’m really glad to hear you say that and I’m not being sarcastic or condescending. This is a welcome change from recent posts where you posted about “f…ing PHEVs” never being charged.

 

Well IMO the jury is out on the charging thing still...I think the big issue is that they aren't plugged in all the time.

 

I found this-seems to have a bit more research done vs the article I posted

 

https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3544548.3581301

 

 

[jpd80]

On 11/21/2023 at 4:18 AM, GearheadGrrrl said:

SUVs by virtue of their high center of gravity are not performance vehicles... There's a reason SCCA won't let them autocross.

When it comes to BEVs, the extra weight of the battery below the floor pan means the Center of gravity is much lower than ICE versions.

[jpd80]

On 11/22/2023 at 4:29 AM, Texasota said:

I’m really glad to hear you say that and I’m not being sarcastic or condescending. This is a welcome change from recent posts where you posted about “f…ing PHEVs” never being charged.

The learnings from Europe is that most people buy PHEVs and then run them like regular hybrids, they don’t charge them as often as people would think. So the regulating body rates their emissions and fuel economy as though they’re running in charge sustain mode. That’s also because more euro cities have zero emission zones around them to punish people using ice or hybrids with fees. The whole thing is a mess and you can tell the law makers are just trying to push people into BEVs by legislation.

Edited November 26, 2023 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The learnings from Europe is that most people buy PHEVs and then run them like regular hybrids, they don’t charge them as often as people would think.

 

Circling back to my thoughts on this-the problem is that even though your MPGs (which is a terrible measurement for it anyways) might be double of a regular ICE car, the actual improvement in the best case PHEV is only about 1/2 of an ICE only car.

 

So what is the point of spending extra money on a PHEV if people don't use it properly (not all will) and they will just default back to driving it like a regular car (and would have been better off getting a HEV anyways if they did that)

Stats from the U.S. Department of Energy tell a similar story: Using the nationwide average of different energy sources, DOE found that EVs create 3,932 lbs. of CO2 equivalent per year, compared to 5,772 lbs. for plug-in hybrids, 6,258 lbs. for typical hybrids, and 11,435 lbs. for gasoline vehicles.

 

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

 

The other issue that is ignored is that the improvement in hybrid vehicles that are popular (i.e. full sized pickup or large CUV) don't see nearly as much of an improvement over smaller cars that would have better Co2 emissions anyways due to using smaller engines. 

 

At least generally with EVs there is a much better impact on the CO2 side, but you also have other issues like range in some cases, which can be mitigated with more charging

[GearheadGrrrl]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

When it comes to BEVs, the extra weight of the battery below the floor pan means the Center of gravity is much lower than ICE versions.

True, but unless they've got center of gravity data showing there safe, the Sports Car Club of America bans cars that are taller than their track width from autocross. Mach E is allowed so they must have found the data somewhere, but they put it in the fastest street class, S/S, with some the fastest pony cars and Corvettes. They'd need the GT's power to be competitive, and that drivetrain can only deliver full power for 5 seconds.

[DeluxeStang]

On 11/20/2023 at 10:14 AM, rperez817 said:

 

You'll love Volvo EX30, one of the SUV of the Year finalists. The Twin Motor Performance variant of EX30 is the fastest accelerating Volvo car ever. 

 

I'm not gonna lie, I love this little thing. I love the fact that it's actually pretty affordable, I love the fact that it's fast as hell, and I love the fact that it looks great. Designing something to look fresh, and sporty, but also timeless, is really hard to pull off, but they nailed it here. Something about the front arches, and the hood cut line made me think of the gen 1 Audi TT, and that made me love it even more. 

 

I don't know if I trust to reliability of newer volvos as much as the reliability of Ford or Tesla EVs. But if this thing turns out to be reliable, it has a good chance of being my family's first EV. I've proposed turning the escape into a sporty street focused EV crossover in order to make it more appealing. This mixed with the mach-e is what I have in mind. 

[DeluxeStang]

54 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

 They'd need the GT's power to be competitive, and that drivetrain can only deliver full power for 5 seconds.

Darren Palmer, Ford's head of EV development and an all around awesome dude said Ford will rectify this with a future software update. That could mean giving drivers 7 seconds of full power, or it could be something more substantial, he was very vague and didn't say how much better it would be. 

 

The mach-e is already super fast when it comes to low end acceleration, but I'll concede, it struggles with top end relative to other sporty EV offerings. I think it's basically a guarantee that the second gen mach-e won't have these power limiters, so it's not gonna be an issue for much longer.