REPORT: Ford Edge Production Continuation Wasn't Possible

[ExplorerDude]

4 minutes ago, Oac98 said:

Is it not a possibility that these low cost EVs go to Mexico?? Ford didn’t announce what plant they’re going in. Or am I mistaken here? 

Anything is possible and subject to change. However it is publicly known that the first low cost EV priced around $25,000 starting will come out of LAP in Kentucky.

Edited April 16 by ExplorerDude

[Oac98]

2 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said:

Anything is possible and subject to change. However it is publicly known that the first low cost EV priced around $25,000 starting will come out of LAP in Kentucky.

So when is the Escape gonna get cancelled then and the Corsair?? Or are they gonna add onto the plant?? 2026 isn’t too far from now. 

[ExplorerDude]

1 minute ago, Oac98 said:

So when is the Escape gonna get cancelled then and the Corsair?? Or are they gonna add onto the plant?? 2026 isn’t too far from now. 

The low cost EV is a replacement for the Escape (or the next gen as an EV) however you want to look at it. I don’t believe they will co-exist at the same time.

[Oac98]

29 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said:

The low cost EV is a replacement for the Escape (or the next gen as an EV) however you want to look at it. I don’t believe they will co-exist at the same time.

Ok I guess more info will be out in due process. 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

The low cost EV is a replacement for the Escape (or the next gen as an EV) however you want to look at it. I don’t believe they will co-exist at the same time.

I'm interested to see what they come up with. I've said for awhile that Ford should design the escape to be a baby mach-e of sorts. Something sportier, sleeker, desirable in its own way. But who knows if that's the direction they'll do in. Just as long as it doesn't look like a blob. 

[ExplorerDude]

9 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I'm interested to see what they come up with. I've said for awhile that Ford should design the escape to be a baby mach-e of sorts. Something sportier, sleeker, desirable in its own way. But who knows if that's the direction they'll do in. Just as long as it doesn't look like a blob. 

From what I have heard it is not being designed in Dearborn at all. It is being designed completely in California away from the “system” aka “Dearborn Disfunction.” It’s dimensions are supposedly very close to the current Escape.

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, ExplorerDude said:

From what I have heard it is not being designed in Dearborn at all. It is being designed completely in California away from the “system” aka “Dearborn Disfunction.” It’s dimensions are supposedly very close to the current Escape.

On one hand, it's nice to hear Ford is planning on keeping the escape, or something similar, around for the near future. On the other hand, I hope they learn from the previous few generations of escape, and actually try to make something appealing. Ideally, they aren't just looking at the current escape, and saying "Let's make that same product again, but with an electric powertrain". Hopefully there's more creatively and appeal than that. 

 

If they keep something with similar dimensions, that's understandable, but the difference in success between the bronco sport and escape shows just how important appealing design is to modern consumers. The current escape isn't a bad looking vehicle, it's more attractive than some other compact crossovers, but it's just very bland, and doesn't do enough to stand out. That's why it's struggled to compete in recent years IMO, one of the reasons at least. There's just nothing about the current escape that makes it a must have for buyers. 

[silvrsvt]

12 hours ago, Oac98 said:

Is it not a possibility that these low cost EVs go to Mexico?? Ford didn’t announce what plant they’re going in. Or am I mistaken here? 

 

No plant yet, but given how price sensitive apparently they are, the smart money says Mexico, but there are a bunch of if and buts with that. 

 

Then don't discount the reporting conflating information that is being put out.

 

Facts at the moment:

 

There is a skunkworks small/affordable EV being worked outside of Detroit. How small/cheap is the unknown.

 

Louisville is supposed to get a new product in 2027 or so to replace the Escape/Corsair-what is replacing it is anyone's guess-but leaning towards an EV

 

There is no additional plans at the moment for another Mexican assembly plant-but given how militant the UAW is going to be in the coming years, I'd say is a possibility that will happen.  

 

The Mach E is built in Cuautitlán Assembly, so it will be worth watching what Ford does with it. One of the big reasons it is built there is due to Mexico having favorable trading rights with the EU and other parts of the world. The new Explorer EV being built in the EU costs slightly more then the Mach E but I'm not 100% sure how different the are going by size etc. That would make that plant a good target to build the affordable EVs in. What is Ford's long term plans with the Mach E? One thing that might be possible is that the Mach E and the Mustang EV coupe merged together early next decade. I'd say that Louisville would be a good fit for that, if Ford decides to close Flat Rock. 

 

[rmc523]

15 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

Leadership has a major impact on a company like Ford. It really is amazing how one person can literally influence and control direction and strategy so much. 
 

I honestly have reasonable hope for Lincoln moving forward. There are a few different silhouettes that will join (or at least they were supposed to) in the next couple of years that should make the faithful much happier.

 

Sounds nice, but publicly they've basically said Lincoln has nothing on the horizon aside from Navigator.  Ford plans change on a whim, though, so it'll be interesting to see what they add.  If they could just stick to a plan lol....

[Oac98]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

No plant yet, but given how price sensitive apparently they are, the smart money says Mexico, but there are a bunch of if and buts with that. 

 

Then don't discount the reporting conflating information that is being put out.

 

Facts at the moment:

 

There is a skunkworks small/affordable EV being worked outside of Detroit. How small/cheap is the unknown.

 

Louisville is supposed to get a new product in 2027 or so to replace the Escape/Corsair-what is replacing it is anyone's guess-but leaning towards an EV

 

There is no additional plans at the moment for another Mexican assembly plant-but given how militant the UAW is going to be in the coming years, I'd say is a possibility that will happen.  

 

The Mach E is built in Cuautitlán Assembly, so it will be worth watching what Ford does with it. One of the big reasons it is built there is due to Mexico having favorable trading rights with the EU and other parts of the world. The new Explorer EV being built in the EU costs slightly more then the Mach E but I'm not 100% sure how different the are going by size etc. That would make that plant a good target to build the affordable EVs in. What is Ford's long term plans with the Mach E? One thing that might be possible is that the Mach E and the Mustang EV coupe merged together early next decade. I'd say that Louisville would be a good fit for that, if Ford decides to close Flat Rock. 

 

Mexico and Canada have free trade agreements with Europe. I know the small EVs will not be built in Canada. I mentioned Mexico because Fords Mach-E projections of 200,000 haven’t been met. I know the Oakville 3 row was once slated to go into various facilities including Cuatitlan. They could easily increase plant utilization by putting those two products there. I once heard that the Mach E was supposed to go to Oakville but I find that one hard to believe. The next UAW contract isn’t til 2028 so things will be interesting. They’re ahead of the game and probably have an idea where they will be allocating some of these upcoming vehicles although we know things can change based on market conditions.

[silvrsvt]

14 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

I'm interested to see what they come up with. I've said for awhile that Ford should design the escape to be a baby mach-e of sorts. Something sportier, sleeker, desirable in its own way. But who knows if that's the direction they'll do in. Just as long as it doesn't look like a blob. 

 

The Mach E and Escape are almost identical to one another in size. 

 

Mach E: 186″ L x 74″ W x 64″ H

Escape: 181″ L x 74″ W x 66″ H

 

That extra 2.5 inches on the ends isn't going to make a big difference to most buyers. 

 

But it also begs the question-what is the point of a separate Mach E platform after the next gen small EV is launched?

 

You could potentially 5 different products on it:

Bronco Sport: 173 OL

Escape: 181 OL

Mach E/Mustang Coupe: 186-189 OL

Maverick EV: 200 OL

 

 

[DeluxeStang]

16 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The Mach E and Escape are almost identical to one another in size. 

 

Mach E: 186″ L x 74″ W x 64″ H

Escape: 181″ L x 74″ W x 66″ H

 

That extra 2.5 inches on the ends isn't going to make a big difference to most buyers. 

 

But it also begs the question-what is the point of a separate Mach E platform after the next gen small EV is launched?

 

You could potentially 5 different products on it:

Bronco Sport: 173 OL

Escape: 181 OL

Mach E/Mustang Coupe: 186-189 OL

Maverick EV: 200 OL

 

 

I suppose it depends on the performance limitations of this compact platform. For instance, is this platform designed to do basically everything? Or is the performance ceiling of CE1 quite low? After all, it's been designed with affordable commuter vehicles in mind, not sports cars. If CE1 performance tops out at like 300 hp, that's not gonna work for a mach-e or mustang coupe.

 

 

[silvrsvt]

Just now, DeluxeStang said:

I suppose it depends on the performance limitations of this compact platform. For instance, is this platform designed to do basically everything? Or is the performance ceiling of CE1 quite low? After all, it's been designed with affordable commuter vehicles in mind, not sports cars. If CE1 performance tops out at like 300 hp, that's not gonna work for a mach-e or mustang coupe.

 

Here is the thing-you need to remove the assumption that extra HP equals less range. EV motors are far more efficient/powerful then ICE counterparts..it boils down to the battery and other things for the range. If more performance is needed, they can add a motor. 

 

The Mach E Select AWD is 325HP/500Ft lbs vs Mach E GT at 480HP/600Ft lbs. The difference in range (when the Select AWD has the 91kwh battery like the Mach E GT) is only 20 miles less then the GT for a 155Hp/100 ft lbs in extra performance. 

[balthisar]

8 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Here is the thing-you need to remove the assumption that extra HP equals less range. EV motors are far more efficient/powerful then ICE counterparts..it boils down to the battery and other things for the range. If more performance is needed, they can add a motor. 

 

Aside from the motors, it's the size of the conductors and the number of parallel connections to the battery. Without getting into the physics, if you can get power from the battery to the motors faster, the car can accelerate a lot faster (and charge a lot faster). Battery size doesn't matter, strictly speaking, but a larger battery offers more parallel connections, so it matters practically. Fast launches aren't a detriment like ICE, other than the heating of the conductors. Current heats the conductors, which increases resistance, which heats things more, thus the 5 second limitation on Mach E GT. Importantly, you're not wasting electrons in the same way that you're wasting gasoline by dumping it into the cylinders. Efficiency, other than conductor losses, is the same.

 

It's a shame that EV's have become politicized. If you want to have fun, an EV is the best way to do it. I can't wait until my Rally arrives and I can turn in my Premium.

 

[silvrsvt]

13 hours ago, balthisar said:

Efficiency, other than conductor losses, is the same.

 

The point I was trying to make is ICE loses a lot more power through rotational/parasitic losses then an EV drive train does.