Tesla cancels plans for low-cost EV

[joseodiaga4]

FORD EV RIVAL TESLA CANCELS PLANS FOR LOW-COST EV 

Ford recently announced that it was shifting its focus away from pricer, larger all-electric vehicles and is working on developing a series of smaller and cheaper EVs, with the first slated to be a $25k crossover launching in 2026. This effort is being led by a former Tesla executive, and stems not only from consumer preference, but also, the potential threat of cheap Chinese EVs making it to the U.S. market. Thus, it comes as something of a surprise to learn that Tesla has reportedly ditched its plansto build a cheap EV of its own, according to a new report from Reuters.

 

https://fordauthority.com/2024/04/ford-ev-rival-tesla-cancels-plans-for-low-cost-ev/

 

 

[DeluxeStang]

Elon responded and said this was a lie. Don't really know who to trust here, modern media outlets or the master of empty promises. If this is true, that's great news for Ford provided they push on with their own affordable EV platform. 

[Rick73]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:31 PM, DeluxeStang said:

Elon responded and said this was a lie. Don't really know who to trust here, modern media outlets or the master of empty promises. If this is true, that's great news for Ford provided they push on with their own affordable EV platform. 

 

"I would just stay tuned. Just don't always believe what you read." 

- Franz von Holzhausen, Tesla Chief Designer

 

Agree it’s hard to know what to believe.  Ambiguous remarks can be walked back in a heartbeat.
 

To your point, I think whether it’s good for Ford or not depends on why Tesla is cancelling Model 2 (assuming report is correct to start with).  If Tesla is cancelling Model 2 because they suddenly realized they can’t build it for anything near $25k, or that what they can build for $25k is so undesirable few would buy it, or that profitability is so low that cannibalized Model 3 and Y sales would do more harm than good, then I’m not sure Ford can do much better.

 

On the other hand if Tesla is temporarily canceling Model 2 because they don’t have the funds to support the investment (due to weak 1st quarter sales) or because their resources are stretched too much with Cybertruck issues and or getting Robotaxi going ahead of Model 2, then it could be a great opportunity for Ford and others to get ahead on smallest of BEVs.

 

I personally think Tesla made a huge mistake by designing Cybertruck instead of Model 2 years ago, though at that time Models 3 and Y were selling faster than they could build them, so need for smaller and cheaper car wasn’t as obvious back then.

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

To your point, I think whether it’s good for Ford or not depends on why Tesla is cancelling Model 2 (assuming report is correct to start with).  If Tesla is cancelling Model 2 because they suddenly realized they can’t build it for anything near $25k, or that what they can build for $25k is so undesirable few would buy it, or that profitability is so low that cannibalized Model 3 and Y sales would do more harm than good, then I’m not sure Ford can do much better.

 

Having a cheaper product wouldn't effect Ford nearly as much-they don't have much under the Escape product wise and they have ICE/HEV products to offset profits from other EV products. 

 

Can see the Model 2 making a dent in 3 sales in other parts of the world where smaller cars are more popular. 

[Rick73]

Fiat 500e might turn out to be a good example that being a smaller BEV is not enough unless price and performance are also appealing to buyers.  I’m curious to see how the new Fiat does.  It’s definitely much smaller and lighter than a Tesla 3, but starting price is only about $5k lower; MSRP around $34k.  With only about 37 kWh of estimated useable battery capacity, city driving range is in order of +/- 150 miles, limiting the 500e to being mostly a City Car.

 

Some buyers may consider the Fiat 500e “cute” or visually more appealing than a Tesla 3, but giving up +/- 100 miles of range, plus quite a bit of acceleration and real-world highway cruising speed just to save $5k seems a lot to ask of buyers.  I hope Tesla haven’t cancelled the Model 2 because US needs a compact BEV under $30k, and with a range of about 250 miles.  I may be completely wrong, but just can’t see a BEV the size of Fiat 500e appealing to the masses, particularly at $34,000.  I’m also curious to see what kind of vehicle Ford come up with for the small low-cost segment.

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Fiat 500e might turn out to be a good example that being a smaller BEV is not enough unless price and performance are also appealing to buyers.  I’m curious to see how the new Fiat does.  It’s definitely much smaller and lighter than a Tesla 3, but starting price is only about $5k lower; MSRP around $34k.  With only about 37 kWh of estimated useable battery capacity, city driving range is in order of +/- 150 miles, limiting the 500e to being mostly a City Car.

 

Some buyers may consider the Fiat 500e “cute” or visually more appealing than a Tesla 3, but giving up +/- 100 miles of range, plus quite a bit of acceleration and real-world highway cruising speed just to save $5k seems a lot to ask of buyers.  I hope Tesla haven’t cancelled the Model 2 because US needs a compact BEV under $30k, and with a range of about 250 miles.  I may be completely wrong, but just can’t see a BEV the size of Fiat 500e appealing to the masses, particularly at $34,000.  I’m also curious to see what kind of vehicle Ford come up with for the small low-cost segment.

From what I understand it’s on sale in Europe already. The Fiat 500 is DOA in North America, since the gas version never sold either. 
 

Smallest product in the US that would sell is something a little bigger then the Bolt-like Trax or Trailblazer which are short C or large B products. 

[Rick73]

In my opinion many buyers can overlook 500e small size, some actually preferring it, but the limited city-car-like driving range, given the 500e relatively high starting price, will be a deal breaker for far too many prospective US buyers.  A small car is where Tesla energy-efficiency expertise is needed most in order to make an affordable vehicle more practical for daily use.

 

Fiat’s website shows 500e having 162-mile city range, and 149-miles combined.  From that we can estimate a highway range around 133 miles, and that’s with a lot of slow driving included in EPA Highway test cycle.  At actual steady freeway speeds I expect much less than 133 miles of range, which means I could not even drive from my house to airport that I fly out of most often and still have enough charge to get back home.  Most buyers won’t consider a car costing +/- $35k that they can’t drive 50 miles out and 50 miles back without worrying about having to charge.

 

Given its small size and 3,000-pound weight, the Fiat 500e needs to be much more energy efficient in order to provide greater highway driving range.  It’s another example of why aerodynamics is so important to BEVs.  The 500e is not a brick, but not great either.

[Gurgeh]

5 hours ago, Rick73 said:

In my opinion many buyers can overlook 500e small size, some actually preferring it, but the limited city-car-like driving range, given the 500e relatively high starting price, will be a deal breaker for far too many prospective US buyers.  A small car is where Tesla energy-efficiency expertise is needed most in order to make an affordable vehicle more practical for daily use.

 

Fiat’s website shows 500e having 162-mile city range, and 149-miles combined.  From that we can estimate a highway range around 133 miles, and that’s with a lot of slow driving included in EPA Highway test cycle.  At actual steady freeway speeds I expect much less than 133 miles of range, which means I could not even drive from my house to airport that I fly out of most often and still have enough charge to get back home.  Most buyers won’t consider a car costing +/- $35k that they can’t drive 50 miles out and 50 miles back without worrying about having to charge.

 

Given its small size and 3,000-pound weight, the Fiat 500e needs to be much more energy efficient in order to provide greater highway driving range.  It’s another example of why aerodynamics is so important to BEVs.  The 500e is not a brick, but not great either.

I agree with your overall argument but not the bolded text. While Americans could someday reach European-style acceptance of micro vehicles they sure haven't yet. While some do sell, I wouldn't characterize those sales as "many."

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

I agree with your overall argument but not the bolded text. While Americans could someday reach European-style acceptance of micro vehicles they sure haven't yet. While some do sell, I wouldn't characterize those sales as "many."

Having rented a Fiat 500 several years ago I agree completely.

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

I agree with your overall argument but not the bolded text. While Americans could someday reach European-style acceptance of micro vehicles they sure haven't yet. While some do sell, I wouldn't characterize those sales as "many."

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with your point of view, but when I stated “many” buyers can overlook Fiat 500e’s small size I didn’t mean the majority or vast numbers.  By many I meant enough that perhaps the Fiat 500e could be successful for what it is, a niche vehicle, provided driving range wasn’t so limited given the car’s cost.

 

I don’t like the Fiat’s cute factor (to me looks like something very young people would drive, especially females), but its small size doesn’t intimidate me at all.  It’s actually larger than before, so no longer all that small except for being very short.  I would love the extra free space it would leave parked inside my home’s garage.

 

As I’ve stated in other threads, I think a compact affordable electric car should not be much smaller than a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla, provided goal is mass acceptance and adoption.  And even Civic/Corolla size will limit many buyers who prefer large SUVs.

 

 

[Rick73]

Greater cause for concern:  Reuters reports Tesla to lay off more than 10% of staff globally as sales fall.

 

Stock is down 31% this year, and many analysts have questioned whether cancelling affordable Model 2 was a good decision given it would support future growth.  Of course, that assumes Model 2 has indeed been cancelled, and also that if true, that Tesla had a choice about it.

[jpd80]

The less obvious elephant in the room,
It’s engrained in most US buyers that they purchase a vehicle with more capability than they actually need.

That is a huge personal preference/bias to overcome especially when both sales staff and manufacturers 

reinforce that belief with upselling, the customer perceives value in that as well as better resale value.

 

No disrespect intended to people wondering why so many folks would choose a less efficient vehicle choice

but the reality is there and by golly, manufacturers have used it for decades to cash in on customer impulse

purchases and even just wants and needs

 

Conversely, places like Europe are more programmed into smaller more efficient vehicles exactly because of

decades of higher vehicles prices, fuel and registration costs, narrower streets and now things like ZEV zones

where non electrified vehicles are taxed for entering.

 

My own country, Australia is completely different again, similar size to USA but a population of only 26 million,

85% of which lives within 100 miles of the coast. All six state capitals are located on the coast and account for

roughly 15.5 million people. So we are a weird mix of situation where hybrids and BEVs probably make sense

in coastal areas but ICEs mostly diesels ar required the further inland you go. Maybe this colors my judgement 

when discussing other regions and if so I apologise in advance.

Edited April 20 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

So we are a weird mix of situation where hybrids and BEVs probably make sense

in coastal areas but ICEs mostly diesels ar required the further inland you go. Maybe this colors my judgement 

when discussing other regions and if so I apologise in advance.

 

That is the US in a nutshell when it comes to EVs...they are more popular in coastal areas or areas that are more built up and the further you go into the middle (and the greater distances you need to travel) they aren't as popular. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

and the further you go into the middle (and the greater distances you need to travel) they aren't as popular. Viable.

FTFY 😎

[fuzzymoomoo]

10 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

That is the US in a nutshell when it comes to EVs...they are more popular in coastal areas or areas that are more built up and the further you go into the middle (and the greater distances you need to travel) they aren't as popular. 

You don’t even really need to go that far. Outside of a few big cities where public transportation is readily available and you can get away without owning a car, anywhere in the fringes of the suburbs it gets harder to justify an electric vehicle. Hell, here in Northern Oakland County you could pretty easily test the limits of the range of something like the 500e that has a sub 200 mile range. 

[silvrsvt]

On 4/21/2024 at 7:14 AM, fuzzymoomoo said:

You don’t even really need to go that far. Outside of a few big cities where public transportation is readily available and you can get away without owning a car, anywhere in the fringes of the suburbs it gets harder to justify an electric vehicle. Hell, here in Northern Oakland County you could pretty easily test the limits of the range of something like the 500e that has a sub 200 mile range. 

 

I live in the one of the densely populated places in the world, and my mass transit options are fairly limited for local use. For example, I can't even get to work (yeah its only about 15 miles away one way) using mass transit.