Ford is done with making boring cars

[DeluxeStang]

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/09/ford-is-done-with-boring-cars-says-its-now-in-the-iconic-vehicle-business/

 

Seems like they're doubling down on enthusiasts and iconic products. They didn't really hint much at what these future icons could be, other than Farley saying we could see more RS models, and that he wants the same excitement the raptor brought to the raptor to influence Ford's car line. 

 

Some think this transition to "iconic" products means Ford is only gonna make expensive cars. I disagree. I think it means Ford plans on making things like their upcoming affordable EVs equal parts exciting and obtainable. 

 

Overall, this strategy is the right move imo. New cars seem like they're gradually transitioning from need to buy items, to want to buy items. So creating products that people really lust after seems like a smart strategy. 

[akirby]

4 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Some think this transition to "iconic" products means Ford is only gonna make expensive cars. I disagree. I think it means Ford plans on making things like their upcoming affordable EVs equal parts exciting and obtainable. 

 

I agree.  Maverick and Bronco Sport fit that description.

[morgan20]

25 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Some think this transition to "iconic" products means Ford is only gonna make expensive cars. I disagree.

 

The article you shared said Ford is moving slightly upmarket with the "iconic" products. While they aren't only gonna make expensive cars, they're done with boring crappy sedans and hatchbacks that have big ass sales rebate offers attached

 

The car manufacturer is moving away from offering vehicles that cater to all consumers and is moving slightly upmarket with more “carefully targeted vehicles.”

Edited October 2, 2024 by morgan20

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, morgan20 said:

 

The article you shared said Ford is moving slightly upmarket with the "iconic" products. While they aren't only gonna make expensive cars, they're done with boring crappy sedans and hatchbacks that have big ass sales rebate offers attached

 

The car manufacturer is moving away from offering vehicles that cater to all consumers and is moving slightly upmarket with more “carefully targeted vehicles.”

While some of their offerings will head up market, some of the most anticipated upcoming Ford products are their CE1 EVs. Those products are being touted as passion products themselves. So I don't think it's gonna be all doom and gloom. 

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

I agree.  Maverick and Bronco Sport fit that description.

These CE1 EVs seem to as well. I've often said how Ford is the best brand in the world when it comes to affordable aspirational vehicles. I can't think of any other brand that has made so many iconic and memorable cars that are actually obtainable.

 

Some brands are affordable, some make exciting cars, very few do both. Leaning into that affordable aspiration theme is a brilliant move from Ford. So many affordable cars are background noise, commodity products. If Ford is one of the only brands willing to do things differently, they're gonna thrive.

[Rick73]

10 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Some brands are affordable, some make exciting cars, very few do both. Leaning into that affordable aspiration theme is a brilliant move from Ford. So many affordable cars are background noise, commodity products. If Ford is one of the only brands willing to do things differently, they're gonna thrive.

I doubt Ford ever set out to design a boring car per se.  If they (or others) knew how to build affordable exciting cars deliberately and not mostly when lucky, they would have been doing it all along with various models.  Unless, in my opinion, trying for an affordable and also exciting car/vehicle requires risking a much higher probability of failure (i.e. — resulting in possible low sales due to unusual design).  Unfortunately, boring can be safer and more predictable in my opinion.  And to be clear, I’m not saying I like boring, I’m referring to taking risks that could turn into a financial train wreck.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Rick73

[DeluxeStang]

18 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

I doubt Ford ever set out to design a boring car per se.  If they (or others) knew how to build affordable exciting cars deliberately and not mostly when lucky, they would have been doing it all along with various models.  Unless, in my opinion, trying for an affordable and also exciting car/vehicle requires risking a much higher probability of failure (i.e. — resulting in possible low sales due to unusual design).  Unfortunately, boring can be safer and more predictable in my opinion.  And to be clear, I’m not saying I like boring, I’m referring to taking risks that could turn into a financial train wreck.

Fair points, but boring, undesirable commodity products can also lead to products that aren't financially successful, and rely on thousands of dollars of incentives to be thrown at them to be moved off the lot. So there's certainly risk with both approaches. 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Fair points, but boring, undesirable commodity products can also lead to products that aren't financially successful, and rely on thousands of dollars of incentives to be thrown at them to be moved off the lot. So there's certainly risk with both approaches. 

Take the Aussie market for example, a small RHD market where buyers are rewarding Ford with premium prices for vehicles like Ranger and Everest but everything else is pretty much unobtainable for our market. If we could get our hands on Bronco Sport and Maverick, then there’s no telling how much higher sales would go. Ford is basically ceding the passenger market to Toyota, Mazda and Hyundai/Kia. That has to stop.

 

If BS and Maverick were built to Euro design specs, that would cover something like 25 RHD markets, just like the Mustang.

Edited October 3, 2024 by jpd80

[AM222]

"Ford is done with making boring cars" more like "Ford is done with making cars people buy in most of the world".  
The Fiesta and EcoSport may have been boring, so why not make them interesting instead of killing them? 

Here is an example of an interesting ICE A-segment city car/CUV by Hyundai called "Casper". I think it's more interesting than any modern entry-level small Ford.

If Ford can design an entry level model this interesting, people would buy it.  

Ford needs something like a new Fiesta or EcoSport that's ICE/hybrid which can have a BEV version. Having an entry-level ICE/hybrid is important now and probably for the next 10+ years.

I think only an incompetent company would give up making affordable models it can market globally. Outside the USA and Canada (that's a big rest-of-the-world market out there), B and C-segment vehicles are very important. Go upmarket with Lincolns, don't turn Ford into premium/luxury brand. Most American Fords that are exported usually end up as low-volume niche models in export markets.  

PS: Hyundai introduced an enlarged BEV version of the Casper which it calls the "Inster".


For those curios

Edited October 3, 2024 by AM222

[akirby]

You guys are overlooking one important thing - the market.  No matter how interesting you make a compact or mid sized family sedan (and I would argue the 2013 Fusion is still the best looking one) price is still king of that market.  It’s like trying to sell hot dogs off a food cart with 8 other food carts.  You might be able to upsell a few unique items but the bulk of sales are plain old hot dogs and nobody is paying a premium for yours when they can get it cheaper 100 feet away.

 

Yes you can still make a little money that way but you must keep costs super low.  Amortize the hell out of your platforms and powertrains with minimal changes over decades and sell globally for volume.   Ford mismanaged their global platforms for decades so they don’t have that luxury today, although C2 is a big step in that direction.  And maybe CE1 will do that on the EV side.

 

Ford’s wheelhouse is F series, Transit, Explorer, Mustang, Bronco and Expedition.  And those are uniquely NA/Australian products that won’t sell in any volume in Europe, Asia or South America.  They found a niche with Maverick and Bronco Sport and those could go global at some point.  
 

It would be stupid for Ford to cut resources to those programs to heavily invest in cars globally or invest in smaller vehicles for Europe at this point.    Had the EV market not demanded such big investment then they could put more resources towards global vehicles but that’s a done deal at this point.

[rmc523]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Take the Aussie market for example, a small RHD market where buyers are rewarding Ford with premium prices for vehicles like Ranger and Everest but everything else is pretty much unobtainable for our market. If we could get our hands on Bronco Sport and Maverick, then there’s no telling how much higher sales would go. Ford is basically ceding the passenger market to Toyota, Mazda and Hyundai/Kia. That has to stop.

 

If BS and Maverick were built to Euro design specs, that would cover something like 25 RHD markets, just like the Mustang.

 

I agree that products like BS and Maverick seem like they'd be perfect fits for a variety of global markets.

 

9 minutes ago, akirby said:

You guys are overlooking one important thing - the market.  No matter how interesting you make a compact or mid sized family sedan (and I would argue the 2013 Fusion is still the best looking one) price is still king of that market.  It’s like trying to sell hot dogs off a food cart with 8 other food carts.  You might be able to upsell a few unique items but the bulk of sales are plain old hot dogs and nobody is paying a premium for yours when they can get it cheaper 100 feet away.

 

Yes you can still make a little money that way but you must keep costs super low.  Amortize the hell out of your platforms and powertrains with minimal changes over decades and sell globally for volume.   Ford mismanaged their global platforms for decades so they don’t have that luxury today, although C2 is a big step in that direction.  And maybe CE1 will do that on the EV side.

 

Ford’s wheelhouse is F series, Transit, Explorer, Mustang, Bronco and Expedition.  And those are uniquely NA/Australian products that won’t sell in any volume in Europe, Asia or South America.  They found a niche with Maverick and Bronco Sport and those could go global at some point.  
 

It would be stupid for Ford to cut resources to those programs to heavily invest in cars globally or invest in smaller vehicles for Europe at this point.    Had the EV market not demanded such big investment then they could put more resources towards global vehicles but that’s a done deal at this point.

 

This is where "adjacent" products come into play - like a 4-door Mustang, for example - it fills a segment, but it's adjacent to the regular market in that it can command higher prices that Ford wants.

 

I saw a lot of Pumas in the UK - I think this is another good example of a product in a "boring" segment, but it's a good looking vehicle.

[AM222]

27 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I saw a lot of Pumas in the UK - I think this is another good example of a product in a "boring" segment, but it's a good looking vehicle.

That's the thing, Ford designs that are not icon/retro tend to be boring, but it doesn't have to be that way. 

Here's an example of a B-segment subcompact crossover, I don't think it's boring. 

Here are C-segment crossovers/SUVs, I don't think they're boring either.



The segment isn't boring; modern small Ford cars/CUVs just happen to be boring like this blob called Escape.

Edited October 3, 2024 by AM222

[akirby]

Not boring may mean more sales but it doesn’t necessarily mean more profit.  If people choose one design over the other but they’re not willing to pay a premium then what’s the point.

[morgan20]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Ford’s wheelhouse is F series, Transit, Explorer, Mustang, Bronco and Expedition. 

 

Yea, exactly. Each of them has one or more of the following strengths

1. Not boring
2. Body on frame construction
3. Long history
4. Good reputation

Edited October 3, 2024 by morgan20

[akirby]

20 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, exactly. Each of them has one or more of the following strengths

1. Not boring
2. Body on frame construction
3. Long history
4. Good reputation

Mustang is unibody and I would also put Maverick and Bronco Sport and Edge in the wheelhouse category.

[DeluxeStang]

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Take the Aussie market for example, a small RHD market where buyers are rewarding Ford with premium prices for vehicles like Ranger and Everest but everything else is pretty much unobtainable for our market. If we could get our hands on Bronco Sport and Maverick, then there’s no telling how much higher sales would go. Ford is basically ceding the passenger market to Toyota, Mazda and Hyundai/Kia. That has to stop.

 

If BS and Maverick were built to Euro design specs, that would cover something like 25 RHD markets, just like the Mustang.

It does blow my mind that Ford never took Maverick global. It seems like a no brainer. 

[AM222]

11 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

It does blow my mind that Ford never took Maverick global. It seems like a no brainer. 

I agree, same with the Puma.  Of course they'd need to be built in regional plants (to be priced competitively) like in Ford's Thai plant for example for Asia-Pacific markets. 

[rmc523]

4 minutes ago, AM222 said:

I agree, same with the Puma.  Of course they'd need to be built in regional plants (to be priced competitively) like in Ford's Thai plant for example for Asia-Pacific markets. 

 

Maybe with the reopening of the India plant, we'll see something like Maverick and/or BS be produced their for southeastern distribution?

[morgan20]

42 minutes ago, akirby said:

Mustang is unibody and I would also put Maverick and Bronco Sport and Edge in the wheelhouse category.

 

Yea, Mustang meets 1 (not boring), 3 (long history), and 4 (good reputation). Maverick and Bronco Sport meet 1 and 4.

 

Edge isn't in the wheelhouse category outside China. It's a boring anonymous unibody blob that was discontinued in April

Edited October 3, 2024 by morgan20

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I agree that products like BS and Maverick seem like they'd be perfect fits for a variety of global markets.

 

 

This is where "adjacent" products come into play - like a 4-door Mustang, for example - it fills a segment, but it's adjacent to the regular market in that it can command higher prices that Ford wants.

 

I saw a lot of Pumas in the UK - I think this is another good example of a product in a "boring" segment, but it's a good looking vehicle.

The Puma is considered an exciting and passionate product by Farley. I believe that actually sums of Ford's strategy here. The Puma is a relatively affordable vehicle in a very popular body style, but it uses a really enticing design, a nostalgic name, and sportier handling to offer something that adds more spice than most compact affordable CUVS. In a world of shoulder shrug "It's fine I guess" rental spec crossovers, things like the puma and bronco sport are offering something really unique, and they aren't charging an arm and a leg for them.

 

It's just like maverick. Why make your entry level vehicle a generic looking egg that's gonna compete against all the generic looking egg hatchbacks, when you could instead make your entry level vehicle the compact truck everyone has wanted for years? With that change, your entry level product goes from something no-one cares about, to something people are waiting to buy for over a year because everyone wants one. 

[DeluxeStang]

The way I see it, Ford's sort of revisiting all of their greatest hits. I'm all for this. Farley implied we might see more RS branded cars in the future, and that makes like escort might make a comeback. I believe the RS 200 and escort names both recently had their trademarks renewed. 

 

So I can see Ford entertaining the idea of offering car form factors moving forward, but I don't see them being these generic blobs that sell for $15,500. 

 

Rather, if we see the return of car form factors at all, it will be things like a mustang sedan, some sort of escort hatchback revival in EV form, an RS 200 to compete against other entry level mid engine sports cars like the cayman and c8. That sort of thing, the kinds of cars people have always wanted, and will pay a premium for, not just cars that exist for the sake of having something in the segment. 

 

We'll see how right or wrong I am there. I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment. But the idea of walking into a Ford dealership, and seeking a 1960s inspired mustang fastback next to a bronco sport, next to an RS 200 or something sounds like perfection. Offering a ton of different kinds of products, and all of them are special. Ford goes from a generic brand, to the hub for all things enthusiast oriented. 

[morgan20]

13 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

The Puma is considered an exciting and passionate product by Farley.

 

Exciting and passionate is an exaggeration to describe Ford Puma, but at least it's not a boring anonymous blob like Escape/Kuga.

 

Any updates on when Puma Gen-E is gonna come out?

[DeluxeStang]

3 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

 

Exciting and passionate is an exaggeration to describe Ford Puma, but at least it's not a boring anonymous blob like Escape/Kuga.

 

Any updates on when Puma Gen-E is gonna come out?

Exactly, the puma isn't the kind of product that people are gonna make a poster out of, but it's all relative. Relative to most other products in its segment, the puma is the one most people would call desirable. 

[mackinaw]

39 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Maybe with the reopening of the India plant, we'll see something like Maverick and/or BS be produced their for southeastern distribution?

 

Or maybe the $25,000 Skunkworks EV will be built there.

[akirby]

46 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

 

Edge isn't in the wheelhouse category outside China. It's a boring anonymous unibody blob that was discontinued in April

Disagree