Toyota Camry/Corrola Sales

[goblue93]

Top 20 US Sales

 

Can someone explain how these two models can be selling over 700k YTD. I don't know anyone who owns either so I don't think I've ever been in one. From looking at them, neither are particularly exciting and they don't seem to offer anything you can't get elsewhere. Is it brand loyalty or do people aspire to own these? I'm not dissing the cars, I just don't get what is so magic about them that they sell so many.

 

Sorry, I meant to post in competition thread. Maybe someone can move it..

Edited November 2, 2006 by goblue93

[ANTAUS]

Can someone tell me how come to it takes Toyota 2 vehicles...the Camry and Corolla (with Matrix added in there) to sell as much as the F-150's ?

[silvrsvt]

The reason people buy them is that they are pretty much appliances. They have a good reputation and name recognition and when someone says "hey what car should I buy", the uninformed/Sheep say "buy a Honda/toyoda"

 

Its simple as that....

[Bluecon]

Solid reliable transportation. What a stupid idea. Will Toyota never learn?

 

The Big 3 dealers are terrible to deal with. How does Toyota compare?

[NickF1011]

Solid reliable transportation. What a stupid idea. Will Toyota never learn?

 

The Big 3 dealers are terrible to deal with. How does Toyota compare?

 

According to most surveys I've seen, Toyota dealer service pretty much sucks the big one too.

 

It's just going to take a LONG time for the public to realize that there are a LOT of reliable cars out there now besides the Camry and Corolla, but it is bound to happen eventually. The quality gap between all automakers is getting too small for it not to.

[atomcat68]

Better question is, how can Toyota's two vehicles sell more than Fords' Mustang, Focus, Taurus, Fusion (NA), and 500.....combined?

The shame is that Ford used to do this and more with just 2 cars, Taurus and Escort while having the Tempo or the Contour for more gravy. Ford bet all their chips on trucks and now...

[NickF1011]

Ford bet all their chips on trucks and now...

 

I really don't see where this whole "bet all the chips" mentality really comes from concerning Ford. I mean during the late 90's, Ford really wasn't updating ANYTHING, INCLUDING the trucks. They just happened to be positioned in a market that was hungry for TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS even if they were a bit outdated and unreliable.

 

I mean during this whole supposed "Ford concentrated on nothing but trucks" era, let's remember Ford introcuded a brand-new small car called the Focus. It was met with very GOOD reviews when it was introduced, but was plagued by quality issues, which pretty much spanned the ENTIRE Ford lineup. The Escape was just as bad, and it was a supposed "gravy" SUV. It was also during this era that Ford launched the highly-praised Lincoln LS. Ford simply dropped the ball with it later.

 

The entire Ford Motor Company was just run poorly in that era, with no real updates to much of ANYTHING during the late 90's/early 00's:

 

The F-series hadn't been updated since 1996.

The Explorer went through the costliest recall ever with the Firestones.

Expedition was mostly carry-over like the F-series.

Escape launch was a mess.

Ranger languished (still does).

Sport Trac saw no updates.

Excursion had no redesigns.

Navigator LOST features as it aged.

Blackwood was a flop.

Aviator was a blatent overpriced Explorer copy.

Fullsize vans saw no redesigns.

Freestar intro was half-assed, at best.

 

I really don't see how anyone could really think that Ford "concentrated" on the truck market during that timeframe. To me it doesn't really appear that they "concentrated" on ANYTHING. They simply got lucky that truck buyers didn't care as much as car buyers that ALL their product was OLD.

 

Bah, forget it...I'm starting a new thread on this topic.

[Edgey]

I think I'm experiencing deja'vu.

[Guest Sixcav]

You know, the other day I compared the interior of the Camry to that of the Fusion. Now first let me say that I think the Fusion is a good car, a definite step in the right direction for Ford. I made myself look at both from a purely objective point of view, sort of "If I had never laid eyes on either, which one would I like better after seeing both." I have to say with all honesty, the Camry presented a better interior. It wasn't that Toyota used better materials, both used the same quality materials. It was just that the interior of the Camry was more aesthetically pleasing to look at. It just flowed better, had better colors, seemed more organic. The interior of the Fusion is all business. It's laid out well enough and everything is in the right place, but it just seems cold, and rigid. The big black square radio that dominates the center console of all the Ford cars to me is just so unappealing. I must say I did like the instrument cluster of the Fusion. But the rest of the interior was like a well written math equation. It was very angular, didn't have any warmth. Now that's just my opinion mind you, I'm sure plenty of people look at the interior of the Fusion and like it.

 

The reason people buy them is that they are pretty much appliances. They have a good reputation and name recognition and when someone says "hey what car should I buy", the uninformed/Sheep say "buy a Honda/toyoda"

I would say yes and no. There's a lot of people out there for whom a car is just an appliance. But I would say plenty of "informed" people opt for the Camry based on it's reputation for reliability and because they just like it too boot. Again it comes down to personal tastes in a lot of cases. Don't you just know there's millions of people out there saying the same thing about people that buy Fords? Sure there are. Neither side is right.

According to most surveys I've seen, Toyota dealer service pretty much sucks the big one too.

 

Now this I will absolutely agree with. I owned a Toyota Tacoma some years back so I can tell you from first hand experience the service department at my Toyota dealer was terrible. I won't bore you guys with the long story but suffice it to say it made very, very hesitant about buying another Toyota. So far I haven't. The flip side to that coin is that when I bought my Mustang the service I received at my Ford dealer from the sales department and the service department was bad all the way around. So I don't know what to do now. So hell I bought a Mazda, we'll see how that turns out.

[Edgey]

I have NEVER had a bad experience with any Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer. In fact, I would say that my experience with Lincoln has been nothing short of exemplary. I can't relate to anybody who complains about their dealer experience.

[taxman100]

Having just driven my wife's 2000 Corolla tonight, I'll comment.

 

She bought the car prior to us getting married. She previously owned a 1990 Corolla was still running fine at 145,000 miles when it was totalled by someone running a stop sign. She still got a really nice insurance settlement. The car is small, uncomfortable, noisy, and the armrest is about worthless, as well as the radio buttons suck. I hate the door lock buttons, the fact the inside door lever doesn't unlock the door, etc.

 

However, the car gets decent mileage, and is made of well designed, thoughtful engineering. It's the details, from the way the brakes are designed to be serviced by an shade tree mechanic like myself, to the ease of replacing light bulbs, etc. You can tell engineers had the upper hand in building the car, not stylists or marketing. I'm not saying Toyota is the same now, but it was when this platform debuted in the early 90's.

 

Ford can do the same - the Grand Marquis was engineered (or maybe refined is a better term) to a high level of well thought out engineering, and it is a far superior vehicle to the Corolla.

 

We probably wont' buy a Toyota to replace it, but for what the car is, it is not a bad commuter type vehicle. I'd drive it to work if I had to - getting over 30 mpg and $300 a year for full coverage insurance is not a bad deal.

 

Cheap to keep and reliable - that sums the car up.

[pcsario]

nm

Edited November 2, 2006 by pcsario

[Blue II]

Top 20 US Sales

 

Can someone explain how these two models can be selling over 700k YTD. I don't know anyone who owns either so I don't think I've ever been in one. From looking at them, neither are particularly exciting and they don't seem to offer anything you can't get elsewhere. Is it brand loyalty or do people aspire to own these? I'm not dissing the cars, I just don't get what is so magic about them that they sell so many.

 

Sorry, I meant to post in competition thread. Maybe someone can move it..

 

Some interesting numbers based on those top 20 sales figures.

 

#1 6 vehicles 1,446,074 Ford

 

#2 5 vehicles 1,259,641 Chevy

 

#3 3 vehicles 725,053 Honda

 

#4 3 vehicles 705,712 Toyota

 

Check my math. If Ford is doing so bad, what do these number say about the other manufacturers? Maybe they need to expand the number to the top 30 or 40 or something to get a clearer snapshot.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Blue II

[630land]

"I really don't see where this whole "bet all the chips" mentality really comes from concerning Ford. I mean during the late 90's, Ford really wasn't updating ANYTHING, INCLUDING the trucks"

 

They killed Contour and Escort, and brought out Escape. The 2002 Explorer re-do, and the 2004 F-150 took alot of energy, then. Also, they decided that the C170 Focus was set to last a decade. And for the Taurus to stay the same for 'several years', or "till we cant afford to pay the workers". Also, the Fusion was delayed.

 

Only car that got attention was the s197 Mustang

[Roadrunner]

You know, the other day I compared the interior of the Camry to that of the Fusion. Now first let me say that I think the Fusion is a good car, a definite step in the right direction for Ford. I made myself look at both from a purely objective point of view, sort of "If I had never laid eyes on either, which one would I like better after seeing both." I have to say with all honesty, the Camry presented a better interior. It wasn't that Toyota used better materials, both used the same quality materials. It was just that the interior of the Camry was more aesthetically pleasing to look at. It just flowed better, had better colors, seemed more organic. The interior of the Fusion is all business. It's laid out well enough and everything is in the right place, but it just seems cold, and rigid. The big black square radio that dominates the center console of all the Ford cars to me is just so unappealing. I must say I did like the instrument cluster of the Fusion. But the rest of the interior was like a well written math equation. It was very angular, didn't have any warmth. Now that's just my opinion mind you, I'm sure plenty of people look at the interior of the Fusion and like it.

 

No, as a Fusion owner I can agree with you -- it is a cold interior. Superior to a Kia or DCX interior, IMHO, but it is not a warm, friendly, happy interior. However, am I disappointed? Heck no!

 

Almost five months after the purchase, I still feel great walking up to my Fusion and saying, "heck yeah this is my car."

 

I also know that it sticks to the corners well, from giving it a try out on the road.

 

I might feel coddled in a Camry, but then I'd have the souring knowledge that I drive a Camry. And not a magical Camry like from Harold & Kumar where Neil Patrick Harris will steal it all hopped up on goofballs. (That was random).

 

The Focus has a warmer (albeit cheaper) interior, IIRC, and the Vibe had an awesome interior as well, if my sketchy memory remembers right. However, the Fusion's methodical interior has all of the buttons in the right places and just works.

 

Mind you, I have a two-tone interior: black on top and tan on the bottom. If it was all-black it would look awesome but the driving experience would feel colder, and if I had an all-beige interior, I'd find it boring. I think if I had a Camel-top and Beige-bottom it would be ugly to me. (see http://carsmedia.ign.com/cars/image/articl..._1139011131.jpg )

 

And I think if I had Camel-toe, well wait no that's not right at all.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Roadrunner

[ANTAUS]

Speaking of, just recently a friend bought a new Lexus RX350 and I'm growing more and more convinced that this "quality" is much more perception than reality. The headliner used, is a step up from the "mouse-fur" they usually use, but very little padding, and a very thin fabric covering which a wrong flick of a females hand with a diamond ring will rip it... Even the Focus has a much better headliner last I felt.

 

Also, some of the buttons aren't illuminated at night...yet, the door sill has the Lexus name illuminated...found that one interesting. I'm touching around and the softness of the dashboard isn't anything to rave around. Ironically, the Navigation system seems to be very similar to the one in my LS, I'm guessing same supplier Denso yet, mine has a few extra toys the Lexus doesn't support.

 

The carpet has taken a cheaper less wooven direction than the previous generation which was tightly packed. But at least it has carpet, unlike Corollas mousefur/felt.

 

Also, at higher revs the engine did sound a bit, hmmm course. Didn't exude a throaty exhaust. And at highway speeds...it's as quiet/loud, as my '05 Mustang...For a Mustang, thats fine...For a supposed luxury vehicle as a Lexus, found it dissapointing.

 

And even lately I've been spending some times in a friends Pilot, and another friends HIghlander...and again, I don't quite possibly see how someone would consider those vehicles refined.quiet, by any means...

[jaydez]

My GF has an 06 Corolla. Not a bad car. Yeah, cheap parts and all that. But gas costs her $25 every other week where her Grand Prix GTP cost her at least $40 a week... big savings.

 

But the thing is uncomforatable everywhere. the seats arent long enough, they are too narrow and not very well padded. It is louder than my 2000 Mazda B-3000 was on the highway.

 

the car vibrated from the engine and when the engine is running if you look at it, it is all blurry beacause of thew vibration. The carpet is cheap and thin. The "armrests" are all hard plastic on the doors and on the center console.

 

The only thing it has going for it is the gas milage and the fact that it was out the door $13,1000 for a brand new CE with auto, power windows/locks, AC and cruise.

 

 

I have an 06 Fusion SEL.... if we go anywhere I always drive so we can both be comforatable.

[NickF1011]

"I really don't see where this whole "bet all the chips" mentality really comes from concerning Ford. I mean during the late 90's, Ford really wasn't updating ANYTHING, INCLUDING the trucks"

 

They killed Contour and Escort, and brought out Escape. The 2002 Explorer re-do, and the 2004 F-150 took alot of energy, then. Also, they decided that the C170 Focus was set to last a decade. And for the Taurus to stay the same for 'several years', or "till we cant afford to pay the workers". Also, the Fusion was delayed.

 

Only car that got attention was the s197 Mustang

 

The Escort was replaced by the far-superior Focus in the midst of this supposed "truck-focused" time frame. The only truck that really got full attention was the F-series, just like the only car that got any attention was the Mustang. I still don't see how they really concentrated on the trucks much. I'll stick to my opinion that Ford really didn't focus on ANYTHING during this span.

[Roadrunner]

the (2006 Corolla) vibrated from the engine and when the engine is running if you look at it, it is all blurry beacause of thew vibration. The carpet is cheap and thin. The "armrests" are all hard plastic on the doors and on the center console.

 

Wait, that seems just like the '93 Corolla I've spent time in. That thing vibrates like nothing else.

[kyle]

Wait, that seems just like the '93 Corolla I've spent time in. That thing vibrates like nothing else.

 

 

Well that is because if toyota does anything they do it with consistency!!

 

I happen to really like the styling on the camry-looks very lexus. They also have added some very nice colors to the car...just takes on a more upscale look. I hear it drive's like a buick though.

 

Now I would be pretty pissed if I just bought a new lexus 330 sedan-everyone would think it was a camry!

 

The corolla does well because it is just very reliable affordable transportation. It is on everyone's shopping list as a barometer to other vehicles. Guess you could say that about the camry as well.

 

Numerous surveys have indicated that the buying experience at toyota was terrible-some of the worst in the industry-but the customer love's their product. Think jaguar had just the opposite problem a few years back when customer's were dealing with some recalls, etc. They were frustrated with the vehicle but the dealer was kissing their behind.

[Edgey]

Is anybody else just AMAZED by how well the Mustang sells? It's one of the best selling cars in America, outselling Ford's own bread & butter products without the benefit of heavy fleeting and rebating. There is nothing else like the Mustang on that list, it's a completely impractical and useless car yet it sells in massive volumes.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Edgey

[RichardJensen]

Last number I saw was almost 17% going to fleet. Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like a lot. :shrug:

I believe that's on a par with the Camry Solara and significantly less than the Monte Carlo, Sebring, Avenger, and G-6, the other coupes in the price range.

 

Of course I can't figure out who in their right mind would buy a Solara.

[goblue93]

Last number I saw was almost 17% going to fleet. Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like a lot. :shrug:

 

I wonder how much of the fleets are convertibles. When I was in Hawaii, everyone was renting a Mustang convertible. Ford shouldn't be discounting those sales very much since the rental rates are pretty high.

[swenson88]

Wait, that seems just like the '93 Corolla I've spent time in. That thing vibrates like nothing else.

 

Not to ruin the Toyota-bashing (I definitely hate Toyota, but I do have respect for them) I have to say my girlfriend's 2003 Corolla has no noticeable vibration, and no rattles to speak of. I've been riding in it for almost four years now and the thing barely seems any different than when it was brand new. I wish I could bash something about it, but for the segment it's in (econobox 4-banger) it's a damn nice little car. The only issue she's had in four years and 60K miles is a dome light going out, a brake light dying, and rotors and pads once. I wish it was worse, I feel bad but I always hope something will go wrong with it to prove that Toyota is screwing up but it just hasn't.

[NickF1011]

dome light going out, a brake light dying,

 

Seems lights die on Toyotas pretty quickly. Anyone else notice this? My friend's old Camry was missing half of its interior lighting by the time it hit about 60,000 miles. My mom's Avalon has had similar issues, although she actually bothered to replace the bulbs unlike my friend.

 

In the almost 10 years I've owned my Mustang, exactly ONE bulb has gone bad - left rear brake light. To be fair though, my Mustang has been through more transmissions than light bulbs. I'd reverse that any day if I could.