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I love it when people castigate the CEOs for their pay. Im relatively certain that you would switch jobs with the CEO if you could to receive that pay. Maybe not though, considering they’re responsible for the entire company, and whether it goes in the right direction, or the wrong direction and implications of those decisions. CEO gets paid with the market will bear for that type of position. If you don’t like it, go put yourself in a position to become a CEO. I respect anybody willing to work from the janitor to the CEO, but people make choices that put them in a position to work a given job. Some people have an easier time making those choices based on their life circumstances, but that’s life and sometimes you have to work harder than others to put yourself in the best position.

It’s legal extortion thanks to labor laws and to think otherwise is just not being honest. And if that pisses off some people I don’t care. It’s the truth.

probably. I have no clue what it is, I don’t abuse the system.

I really don’t disagree with anything that you have said here, however, unless I missed it, I don’t think I saw any quotes of him specifically ripping hourly workers within the union, and it was more about the unions approach to the negotiations. At this point, I wouldn’t care if he openly criticized Fain though. Ford and UAW are a partnership whether people like it or not, and how would you feel if your partner publicly treated you that way and did things to damage you? Every day a strike continues the cost is mounting, so how long as a reasonable time to let a strike continue? Until the company is buried? Until the union is broken? at some point a corporation of that size has to come to some kind of agreement or close the doors. This is beside the fact that the individual union employee on strike is losing income every day it goes on. I personally would like to see more visible accountability at the CEO level, but a massive corporation doesn’t change in a day and leadership deserve some time to turn things around. You can talk about how much they’re paid and that they’ll be OK if they get fired, but they are human, and most people don’t like to fail and have their name associated with that. The the issues you have mentioned above are real, and somebody does should be held accountable for them, but I venture to say that there are quite a number of people throughout the structure of this manufacturer that have a hand in those failures from top to bottom. Let’s get rid of them, from the managers that aren’t managing effectively, to the line worker that is routinely doing poor quality work.

More Fain bullshit...my favorite word.."reasonable"..something Fain doesn't understand...if the leadership of a union doesn't get it, the rank and file are screwed in the long term. The smart guys get it (Fuzzy?)..unfortunately the dumb ones follow the leadership like sheep. In my 44 years I learned if you could not get the union leadership on board, you could not count on the guys in the unit who DID get it to carry the vote. Peer pressure is a bitch.

I 100% agree with this. This isn’t situation of forced labor. People have free will to work for Ford or leave. They are not compelled to be there. If the actions of the union lead to more Fords being built in Mexico, I will continue to buy them even though I try to buy products made in United States, because at least know that Ford historically has tried to maintain a US base manufacturing footprint, and the loss of that manufacturing will likely be as result of unfair labor negotiation practices by the union. One of the contentions of the negotiations at KTP; UAW said, "Ford's continued attempts to erode the skilled trades at Kentucky Truck Plant." Ford has proposed that skilled trades maintenance workers perform multiple tasks across different types of work. The UAW has resisted as a threat to jobs, people familiar with the bargaining said. If this is anything like the union plant, I used to work at, where the skilled trades would only work on whatever that specific trade was, and nothing else, and then sat around until something came about. I’ve also witnessed this same behavior at the McCormick place in Chicago with the different labor unions that were supporting its operations, The question is, why wouldn’t Ford want to try to maximize efficiency by having people that are sitting there doing nothing do something productive? Does that really sound unreasonable? Why would they want to hire somebody new when they have man hours that are sitting there being unused?

I understand there have to be protections for this sort of thing. Otherwise union leaders would be afraid of pushing back against these brands. But there also needs to be a limit, a sense of proportionality and reason from unions, and I'm not seeing that with people like Fain. In fact, I believe the UAW today threatened to strike at the super duty plant. I'd imagine that's at least in part due to Farley's comments. So Farley criticizes the UAW for being unreasonable, and they respond by being unreasonable, proving his point. My God, it's like the boyfriend who gets into a fight because he gets called out for being too aggressive. Do these people really lack this much self awareness?

I was gonna say something mean, but I didn't want to be petty. So I'll just say if you think being an engineer is easy because they have air conditioning and chairs, then you've never really had a quality conversation with an engineer. There were so many sleepless nights that my grandfather, and other Boeing engineers had when trying to create things like the original 747, because they were having to solve problems no-one knew even existed, because no-one had tried to engineer a civilian airliner at that scale before. Boeing has nice offices, and good benefits, that didn't mean his job was easy. It's not just physical discomfort that makes a job uncomfortable, and if it is, well then hell, my grandfather has you beat there as well. There were times where they'd have to hike through miles of mountainous terrain to get to a crash site. Pretty sure that's gonna give you some aches and pains.

And what makes the UAW more special than other people that haven't got COLAs or pay raises in the same time? Anyways what this boils down to is that the UAW has broken its relationship with Ford it has had over the past 40 years or so. Being adversarial to your employer isn't good for your job stability long term.

So you support a big pay cut for the CAP employees based on the problems and ongoing quality issues? I don’t disagree that failed CEOs do t deserve golden parachutes. But it’s a little hypocritical to call that out when the union contract protects bad workers the same way.

It's ironic that Tesla can be an innovator with it's build processes, and yet totally fail at overall product quality.

Hey guys, just took delivery of my brand new cybertruck. As you can see, there are some small signs of wear, but Elon assured me this is normal.

This is 100 percent true. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard the phrase “it works on paper” over the years when something is FUBAR on the line, I could probably retire comfortably today. IDGAF what your paper says when the real world says it doesn’t work.

What is absolutely hilarious is that Ford markets telematics and tracking systems to its commercial customers while it does a terrible job of organising and tracking orders and supply of its own vehicles. Maybe Ford should get its own house in order first before telling others how to run their business?

So where from here. I remember back when Mulally brought manufacturing jobs back to the US and in particular, Michigan. While Ford appeared to do that for the best reasons, it also wanted the UAW to take the burden of pension liabilities. So in some ways, everyone got something from that deal. Fast forward to 2023 and the UAW unrest where many of the rank and file were expecting a catch up deal to make up for the lean years and what Fain delivered was exactly that…..but at a heck of a cost. Now, Ford is actively looking to move future projects away from the US. Everything hit Ford at once, an aggressive UAW contract with higher ongoing costs right when there is a downturn in vehicle sales but worse, Ford’s big hope of that BEV sales ramp up is not happening. So how pissed off are the Ford brass, how far would they go with production changes to risk off the next UAW contract, how many plants would they be looking to pull back production and move to Mexico? There are are loads of questions in there and perhaps looking at what’s planned to happen in this contract will show us where Ford can change things beyond the end of this term?

You don’t have to like it, but that is the reality of a free market retail business environment. Failing to maintain cost parity with your competition puts your business at risk of reduced profit margins, lower sales and in extreme cases bankruptcy. If the union chooses to raise their labor costs significantly above the competition then there will be consequences. The same goes for taxes, interest, rent, software costs, etc. if costs get too high and there are other options then changes are made. Thats not union bashing. Its reality. Ford was willing to absorb higher costs to a point, but the union demanded far more than that so now there will be consequences. It’s not personal.

Paying market or higher than market wages to workers who choose those jobs with free will is not exploiting them. If you don’t like the pay go find another job or start your own business.

Sorry, my fault that you misunderstood my post, because I phrased that poorly. What I meant was that the costs with any future incentives is at least partially baked into that MSRP, not that the MSRP label changes…..although Deanh mentioned previously an example of different sets of window stickers turning up for vehicles already at the dealership The poster I was responding to was talking about Manufacturers setting a non-negotiable price…….as far as I know, manufacturers cannot dictate prices. Again, please forgive my imprecise wording And boy, dealers learned a lot about buyers from that, they could jack up prices, knowing that some buyers would pay that with perhaps the intention of flipping it for even more cash. We’ve just seen that in my location with tons of Ranger Raptor orders at inflated prices, when Ford freed up supplies late last year, many cancellations started pouring in, to the point of those buyers walking away from deposits but others picking up the same vehicles at MSRP. Work that one out….

I would venture to say there is a bit of difference in the work ethic from your grandfather's time 55 years ago compared to today.

Many have no idea of the process. They are brilliant when it comes to theory and book smarts, but some lack common sense and the humility to learn. When mistakes are made on the floor it is the operators and management to fix their mistakes.

If his last name was Jones......

Exactly, it’s only a matter of time before Ford reacts with changes that commence just beyond the end of this contract. Heck, GM transferred a ton on new production to Mexico a few years back and shut like three or four plants, the UAW struck for a while but we’re always going to fold.

Also, when the guy is already talking about a strike for the next contract, it makes it hard to want to side with that guy.

It's fucking insane is what it is. This is what happens when the person leading others is a mouth breathing moron with an "Us against them" mentality. They stir up contention and division rather than encouraging everyone to work together in a way that's mutually beneficial for all. Forget biting the hand that feeds, Fain is stabbing it over and over without a care in the world

The issue isn't wanting a raise. With the inflation we've experienced, I certainly don't begrudge members this opportunity to "catch up" in real income. The issue is union leadership that seems to take delight in hurting the company that provides jobs to its members, and demonizing the Ford executive team. William Clay Ford, Jr., is hardly the Harry Bennett of the 21st century. And the idea that the UAW is going unionize the transplant operations with these tactics is a pipe dream.

Well, it WAS National Pizza Day. Everybody went to Buddy's,,,,, HRG

And those folks on the line have every opportunity to get that engineering or designer job if they want.

So since we are painting with platitudes here, what about all the assembly line workers who call out on unauthorized sick day the first day of hunting season, basically knee caping any production for a day or two? Saying one group has it better than the other is disingenuous

Saying unions aren't part of that fine line is like saying icebergs had nothing to do with the Titanic sinking. The greed of people like Fein is a weight around Ford's neck to the tune of thousands of additional dollars to get the same job done. Ford employee's deserve decent salaries, but holy shit dude, does someone who bolts a tire on deserve to be paid more than a Ford engineer or designer?

BTW the company was offering 20% raises along with continuing free healthcare. In no way shape or form was that paying workers less and less. Just the opposite.

my observation is Shawn Fain is incapable of that.

You really believe that the impact of this latest contract and the long term implications of it have no bearing on the ability to compete with all the different brands? You do understand it’s American consumers that are also going to feel that impact right? Nobody disputes that the workers didn’t deserve raises, and I believe everyone should make as much money as they can, but that contract is pretty extraordinary, and the unions approach to it was not positive IMO.

Yes Ford has had communication problems for decades but it's worse than ever now. They went from caring but just not being very good at it, to not caring at all and ignoring it. Agree on too many layers and short-term thinking being an issue. Part of that is just how things are set up. Ford has always had trouble recruiting top talent due to being in Detroit where nobody wants to live so they have to sell people across the country on how much better for their career Ford would be over other Fortune 500 companies due to how they develop their employees. It's true, and they do a good job getting you ready for upper management, but that tends to have people working there change jobs a ton and that constant churn, and lack of subject matter experts, does not help with overall efficiency. I worked at Ford in Dearborn for 13 years and had 10 different positions (6 promotions) in Manufacturing, Marketing & Sales and Product Development. Just as I got comfortable in a position I got moved to another. I never got bored and I never had too much junk in my offices because I knew I wouldn't be there very long. LOL.... On the order board, pretty sure my counterpart is on top of things but today he was telling us about how he ordered 6 exact spec F-150's for a customer. 4 were ordered initially then 2 were ordered a month later. 2 of the first 4 came in......and then the last 2 arrived before the 2nd pair from the first order. It makes no sense. They claim scheduling is FIFO but that is not really accurate. That's just a small example of how whacky things are. All I know is this guy has his crap together and he does not complain about his DTNA orders like he does with the Ford stuff.

No shit Sherlock. You reap what you sow.