fordtech1 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 This topic may have been discussed already. IF so I missed it. Does anyone know if the Crown Vic is going to get the 4.6 3v???? Aren't the only vehicles left with the 4.6 2V is the F150/Econoline and Crown/G-M? Seems like it would be very favorable to drop the 2V and make only the 4.6 3v. If the explorer & spt trac and mustang can get one. Why not the CV and others? The Panther is a great cop car and taxi. Very durable in comparison. Just needs more power. The new 3.5 out powers it in HP. When they going to give it some balls? Anyone know? :stats: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I took a taxi in New York once. The guy was doing 50mph before he left the airport parking lot, and he was doing 60 on the 97th street transit in Central Park. I don't think he needs a MORE powerful engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) I took a taxi in New York once. The guy was doing 50mph before he left the airport parking lot, and he was doing 60 on the 97th street transit in Central Park. I don't think he needs a MORE powerful engine. I had a similar experience at LAX down Superdave Boulevad, I couldn't read the sign properly! Although our Greek Aussie Taxi Drivers with their Falcon 6s would drive their door. Hey, we could have a Special Olympics for Cabs from around the world. The rules would be easy - none, LOL!!! PS, our 4.0 I6 puts out 250 HP @5200 and 285 lbft @2500 courtesy of DOHC and IVCT, that's through a log manifold and single exhaust! Edited February 13, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Only a very tiny but vocal minority wants more power in a panther. Geezers don't need it and probably wouldn't even notice if you pulled 2 plug wires on the current engine. Fleet operators always have an eye on operational costs. Would 50 or 100 extra HP equal any additional revenue for a cab company? Not only is this answer no, but the new engine may very well consume more fuel. The police do not need more power in this platform as long as they have their Motorolas. The officers themselves might like a speedier cruiser, but cops don't buy cars. Fleet managers do. How many more panthers would 300 or more HP sell in a year? Not too many. Teenagers who buy used P71's don't count. A significant exterior and interior restyle would make a lot more sense, as well as a 5 or 6 speed transmission to improve fuel economy. I suspect, however, that these cars will remain largely unchanged for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Put 85 horsepower 3 cylinders in them, that way nobody will buy them so Ford can justify killing them, and the weenies that think every Ford should be the the slowest vehicle in it's class will be happy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Since 85% go to fleet, if those customers are happy with the performance level, there's no need to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy8768 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Funny thats the kind of thinking that killed off the Taurus and Escort, 2 of Ford better automobiles in the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 I have just heard alot of police around here complain of the lack of power. Thats their real only complaint about the Panther. Other than that the like the panther over the charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Funny thats the kind of thinking that killed off the Taurus and Escort, 2 of Ford better automobiles in the last few years. The Escort was a better automobile? I'd hate to see what the bad ones are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Funny thats the kind of thinking that killed off the Taurus and Escort, 2 of Ford better automobiles in the last few years. The Taurus isn't dead anymore, and what happened to it in the past was because past management couldn't see past the SUV boon of the late 1990's. As for the Escort, the first generation was pretty rough, but was pretty solid come the mid-1990s and the Mazda 323 based models of the Early 90's where nearly bulletproof, at least in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy8768 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I think it was better than the focus anyway...the Escort of 95 or so up until the end was a good little car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I think it was better than the focus anyway...the Escort of 95 or so up until the end was a good little car I dated a gal with a 96 Escort wagon. That thing was horrible. Focus is way better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSN95 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I think it was better than the focus anyway...the Escort of 95 or so up until the end was a good little car Agreed, I have a 95 Escort GT. One damn good little car. Runs today with no issues and can still run rings around newer small cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Back on topic, this has, indeed, passed a few times on the board. To sum up everything that I've seen, the following is the leading candidate for why it hasn't happened yet... 1) The 3V 4.6L induction setup as found on the Mustang, Explorer and Sport Trac would not work on the Crown Vic due to clearance issues with the hood and possibly one suspension part. 2) Any change to the 3V 4.6L would also require a transmission change to either the 5AT from the Mustang or the 6AT from the explorer. Both transmissions have different mount points and dimensions from the 4R70/75W that is in use in the Panthers. 3) Limited 4.6L 3V volume. Up until present, there hasn't been enough spare volume to change the engine in the Panthers to the 3V. (remember, the above are all rumors and insubstantiated) Now, there is another thing to look at. According to some of what I've read on here, the Hurricane will initially be the large V8 in the new F-150s and the base V8 will be the 4.6L 3V. If that's the case, then 90% of the 4.6L v8's produced and sold by ford will be of the 3V variety. There will be no point in having one engine line producing an engine that's only used in the panthers at that point. Meaning, the development work will be done to get the 3V into the current Panthers. Since there already seems to be some minor tooling investment going into the Panther plant, it is possible that this is being done with this change in mind. The other possibility is that the Panther may never see the 3V 4.6L v8 and may instead go to the smaller displacement version of the Hurricane directly. It is expected that the hurricane/Boss should be dimensionally smaller than the 5.4L MOD, and, because of that, will be able to fit into the engine bay through the traditional installation method. If that's the case, then there will also likely be a case for a v6 panther as well as a base model. The leading candidate there would currently be the Cologne 4.0L (torque production) or a possible truck version of the Duratec 35 at 3.9L or so. I am beginning to believe more and more that the 4.6L 3V may completely miss the panthers. I think it would have been a phenomenal engine for them as its lighter than the current 2V, its more efficient than the 2V, its got a broader powerband than the existing 2V, and would have offered an excellent driving experience and improved fleet efficiency over the current setup. However, I don't think that the difference, for the purposes of the panthers, would have been sufficient to warrant the cost of the changeover for Ford, and, it would have cost the various fleet operators significantly in supporting the update, making them look more closely at competitors like the charger and the impala. The hurricane will be a significant step up and will be very competitive with the market at the time of the change. Currently, Ford is banking on fleet operators fear of high investment change to keep their existing customer base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 3) Limited 4.6L 3V volume. Up until present, there hasn't been enough spare volume to change the engine in the Panthers to the 3V. There would be plenty of volume if they stopped dicking around producing 4.6 2-valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSN95 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The police do not need more power in this platform as long as they have their Motorolas. The officers themselves might like a speedier cruiser, but cops don't buy cars. Fleet managers do. Some of them seem to move just fine with what they have. I had an unmarked P71 pass me on the highway while going after speeders. That cruiser was moving like I didn't think a CV could. Impressed the hell out of me. (also glad it wasn't me he was going after :D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The Escort was a better automobile? I'd hate to see what the bad ones are.The 91 and up escort were dependable, super simple and got good mileage. Only retards that dogged the crap out them didn't like them. I got 200 plus thousand miles out of the 3 that I had. Bought 2 brand new and bought one with 60K on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The 91 and up escort were dependable, super simple and got good mileage. Only retards that dogged the crap out them didn't like them. I got 200 plus thousand miles out of the 3 that I had. Bought 2 brand new and bought one with 60K on it. Yes, the engine ran fine. That was about it. The interior was horrible, and most notably, the exterior sheet metal was paper thin. It would get dented if you just leaned on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) Funny thats the kind of thinking that killed off the Taurus and Escort, 2 of Ford better automobiles in the last few years. I cannot see Ford making any changes to the CV/GM before the 2009 upgrade can you? What killed the Taurus off is the sale of Hertz and the decision by Ford to change from a Large Compact back to a Mid Sized Fusion and full sized Fivehundred. What most fail to grasp is the 2006 sales figures: while Ford sold 199,000 Taurus/Sable at low profit, they also sold 211,000 Fusion/Milan/MKZ and 107,000 Fivehundred/Montego/MKX, both with good profit margins. There is a potential 500,000 sales out there, so drop 100,000 fleet sales and you have your 400K /year split across two platforms. If rumors are correct both Fusion and the new Taurus will share the new EUCD2 platform making production easier economical and more flexible. Edited February 13, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Some of them seem to move just fine with what they have. I had an unmarked P71 pass me on the highway while going after speeders. That cruiser was moving like I didn't think a CV could. Impressed the hell out of me. (also glad it wasn't me he was going after :D ) Most people just assume that all the Crown Vics are horrifically slow, when that's not the case. Imagine taking a 99-04 Mustang GT automatic, replacing the dual exhaust with one puny single pipe, putting a slushy torque convertor in there, and backing it with a 2.82 rear end. The fact is that the Crown Vic LX and Marquis with HPP, Crown Vic Sport and Interceptor are basically like taking a Mustang GT and adding 600 lbs or a difference of about a half second in the quarter. Plus, the rigidity of the chassis really helps the handling of these cars with the right suspension set-up. Of course, they do not have the get-up and go as the Hemi Chargers, but they are sufficiently strong enough to get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Oh, I don't believe that the current CVs are way underpowered at all for their intended uses. I shuttled a CVPI from Baton Rouge to New Orleans post Katrina and I can tell you that, for all practical purposes, it has as much power as most anyone will need in most situations. Yes, its a big car and taks a little time to get to high highway speeds, but, its plenty powerful around town and takes onramps quickly enough. Personally, I thought that there was room for a base v6 with how the standard v8 performed and I also thought that, especially for highway interceptor duties, there might be room for a bit more torque and a decent dose of additional ponies. The panters are not the most aerodynamic of vehicles and that extra horsepower will come in handy at higher speeds. The broader torque band and greater number of gears of the 3V 4.6L 5AT or 6AT combo would definitely improve acceleration as well. I think that at the very least, just making the change to the 4.6L 3v 5AT combo in the mustang GT would be well received. The 6AT may be more desired, but, it may not make that much of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Agreed, I have a 95 Escort GT. One damn good little car. Runs today with no issues and can still run rings around newer small cars. Another nod for the mid 90s Escort being a great car for the $$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Another nod for the mid 90s Escort being a great car for the $$. True, But you better baby that tranny! If its an auto that is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Another nod for the mid 90s Escort being a great car for the $$. Throw another nod for my '91 1.9L 5 speed! :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) I had a 94 wagon 5-sp I used for my customer appointments. 250k with no issues(one timing belt). Tough little sucker. Ford wont put the 3v/5speed auto in the Vic because it makes sense, kinda like a diesel 150/expy. Edited February 22, 2007 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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