2K8 ESCAPE C&D TEST

[Edstock]

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests...ed-v-6-4wd.html

 

A rear disk brake option might be a good idea.

[RichardJensen]

Meh. More Car & Drivel. Love the apropos of nothing 'CSI' reference...... 'Communicates about as well as a week old corpse' :huh:

 

Could the Escape be better? Yes.

 

But I note much more room for improvement in C&D's reviews.

 

 

Oh, and C&D's marketshare is falling too. Maybe they should look to their own eggs, and stop hiring idiots that got fired off the Jimmy Kimmel show.

Edited May 9, 2007 by RichardJensen

[BORG]

The new Escape is a solid effort, I think the interior is by far the best of any Ford product. The Escape loyalists will have something familiar to upgrade to and I think that is the ultimate goal with this update. The Edge can take on the trendy newbies.

 

Like every Ford product, the 2008 Escape update is the best Ford can safely do right now. For a company on the brink and getting closer to the edge, I think the Escape update was a smart move.

[Tugboat]

I'm not giving Ford a pass on the updated 2008 Escape. I just can't understand how the 2008 can drop a star on the NHTSA front driver crash rating and gain a star on the front passenger when compared to the 2007 model. Frankly, I was ready to pull the trigger on this vehicle but I will not settle for a three star crash rating. It's rock bottom for the class. Ford, I'm trying to be a fan boy...throw me a bone.

[ANTAUS]

That report really ripped the Escape a new one, and it's rightly deserved actually. This "update" took place at the 7th year mark, where it should have taken place at the 4-5 year mark like every other manufacturer does. Considering the fact that it took Ford 7 years to "substantially" (that word is questionable) should have at least guaranteed that the improvements would have been thorough and instead we received a half assed effort. In my book, there's no excuse for that fact. And again, the biggest let-down is using carry-over powertrain. A 3.0L V6 making a paltry 200HP, and uncompetitive 4 speed transmission.

 

And these are the results, so it's not surprising, Ford deserves this negative opinion for it's bastard child product.

[BORG]

The only thing that disappoints me about the update is the carry-over transmission. And indeed it takes some forgiving in order to get passed the lack of a substantially new product, but consumer's are generally unaware of the aging innards if they get the job done within their expectations. My major complaints about the Escape include a poor safety rating and quality record. I'm sure the quality can be fixed but Ford apparently can't afford improving safety behind a few bolt-on features. The Escape is also a better value since it's previous generation, made possible for Ford largely because of smart investment.

[mybluegm]

It's especially disappointing they're re-using the CD4E. I have a 2006 Limited, and IMO it's not the engine that lets the car down, but the tranny, especially in that 40-45 MPH "dead" zone. Holding back overdrive a bit would help that, but then CAFE would suffer.

[mettech]

The point is, it's not in the same league as the CR-V and RAV4.....I'm not even sure it's equal to a Hyundai. Other than price, I'm not sure anything about it is better than the CR-V.

 

Ford does not have a "big league" player in a major car line that women buy. However, my wife and I do like the Mercury better.

 

The Escape is a minor league player... for now.

[sranger]

It's especially disappointing they're re-using the CD4E. I have a 2006 Limited, and IMO it's not the engine that lets the car down, but the tranny, especially in that 40-45 MPH "dead" zone. Holding back overdrive a bit would help that, but then CAFE would suffer.

 

You nailed it. the 1-2 shift is a performance robbing black hole.... ( at least in my 2005 Mariner )

 

I think the review is accurate and fair. Ford did a very poor job on the update. I think they would have been better off not changing anything until they could afford to give the vehicle a more updated drivetrain. By giving this thing a lack luster update, all they did was draw unwanted attention to it's class lagging performance. Think how bad it will look if this thing is included in a comparison test...

 

If the wind/Road noise is as bad as my Mariner, then the update is a complete failure. I thought that they would have at the very least made it a quiter ride...( Mine sounds like a jet engine at Highway speeds )

[MGallun]

You nailed it. the 1-2 shift is a performance robbing black hole.... ( at least in my 2005 Mariner )

 

I think the review is accurate and fair. Ford did a very poor job on the update. I think they would have been better off not changing anything until they could afford to give the vehicle a more updated drivetrain. By giving this thing a lack luster update, all they did was draw unwanted attention to it's class lagging performance. Think how bad it will look if this thing is included in a comparison test...

 

If the wind/Road noise is as bad as my Mariner, then the update is a complete failure. I thought that they would have at the very least made it a quiter ride...( Mine sounds like a jet engine at Highway speeds )

 

 

the hybrid is where its at baby, that thing rocks! my friend has one, on city driving of alot of stop and go it got 29mph city!!!!!!!! and when you want to get going fast that electric motor makes it feel like you have a 250hp motor, it jumps...

[silvrsvt]

the hybrid is where its at baby, that thing rocks! my friend has one, on city driving of alot of stop and go it got 29mph city!!!!!!!! and when you want to get going fast that electric motor makes it feel like you have a 250hp motor, it jumps...

 

I was kicking around maybe getting a new Escape Hybrid and just looking at specs alone on the I4 with it only having something like 120 HP, I thought the thing wouldnt be able to get out of its own way...

[Michael Reynolds]

I was kicking around maybe getting a new Escape Hybrid and just looking at specs alone on the I4 with it only having something like 120 HP, I thought the thing wouldnt be able to get out of its own way...

 

Well it has electric assist motors, utilized under heavy acceleration. I've driven one and by all means its nothing to worry about.

[ZanatWork]

Meh. More Car & Drivel. Love the apropos of nothing 'CSI' reference...... 'Communicates about as well as a week old corpse' :huh:

 

Could the Escape be better? Yes.

 

But I note much more room for improvement in C&D's reviews.

Oh, and C&D's marketshare is falling too. Maybe they should look to their own eggs, and stop hiring idiots that got fired off the Jimmy Kimmel show.

 

 

I definitely side with C&D on this one, as the Escape's refresh seemingly attacked all the wrong things.

 

As the competition got faster, the Escape actually got SLOWER. That's bad.

 

They took their "cute ute"...and tried to make it look butch. Why?

 

As the competition gets more agile and flickable, the Escape's steering feel is poor, and yes, now features rear drum brakes.

 

Nice NAV system, though.

 

 

The driveline needed attantion, and it got ignored. I know there will be a new 6 speed in 2009, and likely either a PIP 3.0 or some derivative of the 3.5...but the competition is at least a couple years ahead again.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Given the budget they had, there was a limit to what they could do. There are three main areas that make a vehicle for the consumer:

Interior, exterior, and drivetrain. With their budget, they could have done several things.

 

1) They could have focused it all in one area, making that area class leading.

2) They could have focused it in two areas, making those areas class competitive.

3) They could have spread it across everything and half-assed it all.

 

they chose option 2.

 

The options there were as above, what area do you pick to leave alone?

Interior? That's what people interact with the most. Its one area where the previous one hadn't aged as well. Can't forget that.

Exterior? That's the "first impression" area. That's what everyone else sees when they look at your product. If you don't change that, no one will think it was new. They have recent updates that they can look at to figure that mistake out from.

The drivetrain? Well, for over half the buyers, as long as it can get out of its own way, and gets decent gas mileage, and is reliable, that's all that matters. For the rest, there is still a performance option in the v6, its just not class competitive anymore. For the mileage concious, there's the hybrid, which is still almost exclusive ot the segment (save for the vue).

 

If they had neglected the interior, everyone on here would be jumping on their wagons with pitchforks and torches for half assing the interior and sales would be really tanking as existing owners would have nothing to refresh with. If they had neglected the exterior, no one would know it was new, and it would sell just as badly as the old one. So, they picked the one area that they could skate with, and that was the drivetrain.

 

I have only two complaints about the end product. One, there was some low hanging fruit to be had in two drivetrain bits. The D30 is a proven match to the CVT in the D3s. That tranny is compact enough to have been used in the escape with only minor revisions. That combo moves the Freestyle well enough, it would have been stellar in the escape. The tranny for the 4 banger is the other disappointment. The 5AT from the CD3s 4 banger is already matched to that engine. The only thing to do there is the engineering to get it mounted. I know room can't be a problem as that 5AT isn't exactly huge.

 

The other was calibrating the stopping distances. I've noticed that the stopping distance for the escape appears to have grown in the update. That could have been addressed as well. I'm NOT harping on drums in the back, this vehicle isn't a primary tow vehicle or a high payload vehicle, so rear drums aren't neccessary. However, proper tire sizing and selection, ABS tuning etc can have a big effect on braking distances. Vehicle weight does as well.

 

My suggestion would have been to engineer in the tranny updates, and raise the MSRP by $250 to compensate. With the better trannies, efficiency on both would have been higher by at least 1 or two mpg, performance would have been better, and it could have commanded the higher price. But that's just me.

[RichardJensen]

Batavia, home of the CVT, is IIRC, scheduled to close in the next year or two (and there's another waste!) That's probably why there's no CVT in the Escape.

 

C&D's complaints about skidpad results were not only bizarre, they also showed that none of the C&D drivers know (or could be bothered to learn) enough to turn off the Escape RSC. Of course if RSC wasn't standard, they'd be bellyaching about that too....

 

Anyway to the Escape braking and skidpad: My thinking is we're looking at tires, tires, tires. Methinks Ford may have gone with a low-rolling resistance compound (and probably a cheaper overall tire) than the outgoing model, thus explaining the longer stopping distances and poor skidpad results.

[Hugh]

Given the budget they had, there was a limit to what they could do. There are three main areas that make a vehicle for the consumer:

Interior, exterior, and drivetrain. With their budget, they could have done several things.

 

1) They could have focused it all in one area, making that area class leading.

2) They could have focused it in two areas, making those areas class competitive.

3) They could have spread it across everything and half-assed it all.

 

they chose option 2.

 

The options there were as above, what area do you pick to leave alone?

Interior? That's what people interact with the most. Its one area where the previous one hadn't aged as well. Can't forget that.

Exterior? That's the "first impression" area. That's what everyone else sees when they look at your product. If you don't change that, no one will think it was new. They have recent updates that they can look at to figure that mistake out from.

The drivetrain? Well, for over half the buyers, as long as it can get out of its own way, and gets decent gas mileage, and is reliable, that's all that matters. For the rest, there is still a performance option in the v6, its just not class competitive anymore. For the mileage concious, there's the hybrid, which is still almost exclusive ot the segment (save for the vue).

 

If they had neglected the interior, everyone on here would be jumping on their wagons with pitchforks and torches for half assing the interior and sales would be really tanking as existing owners would have nothing to refresh with. If they had neglected the exterior, no one would know it was new, and it would sell just as badly as the old one. So, they picked the one area that they could skate with, and that was the drivetrain.

 

I have only two complaints about the end product. One, there was some low hanging fruit to be had in two drivetrain bits. The D30 is a proven match to the CVT in the D3s. That tranny is compact enough to have been used in the escape with only minor revisions. That combo moves the Freestyle well enough, it would have been stellar in the escape. The tranny for the 4 banger is the other disappointment. The 5AT from the CD3s 4 banger is already matched to that engine. The only thing to do there is the engineering to get it mounted. I know room can't be a problem as that 5AT isn't exactly huge.

 

The other was calibrating the stopping distances. I've noticed that the stopping distance for the escape appears to have grown in the update. That could have been addressed as well. I'm NOT harping on drums in the back, this vehicle isn't a primary tow vehicle or a high payload vehicle, so rear drums aren't neccessary. However, proper tire sizing and selection, ABS tuning etc can have a big effect on braking distances. Vehicle weight does as well.

 

My suggestion would have been to engineer in the tranny updates, and raise the MSRP by $250 to compensate. With the better trannies, efficiency on both would have been higher by at least 1 or two mpg, performance would have been better, and it could have commanded the higher price. But that's just me.

Great post OFW; I pretty much agree with you on this one. I saw a few 08's around town and they are not bad and a improvement over the older one. I forgot about the CVT altogether. Probably Ford finished it's order and said thanks a lot to the company who makes them (ZF?) and said later. Even a 203 hp and CVT from the D3 would have been a improvement. Not class leading or even competive however, better then nothing. How much does it cost to have them shipped to Missouri vice Illinois? As for the trannys, 5A for the I4 and the same output as the CD3 would be nice. I read a TTAC review and the guy rated the V6 at 193hp. Is he using the new SAE formula without actually testing the unit? Smells like spin to prove your biased point. Of course 193/200/203 is not much of a difference in the real world. However, the CVT would have done well. About the rear brakes, thats been beaten to death at length. Maybe Ford can do something until the new 2009/2010/2011 Escape comes out. In the meantime, if the price is good, make my Escape Limited Black/Black and with the chrome please.

[silvrsvt]

They took their "cute ute"...and tried to make it look butch. Why?

 

Since when has the Escape looked "cute"? The new CR-V styling is awful...the gaping hole under the grill and the rear hatch "blister" make me wince when I see it.

[Hugh]

Batavia, home of the CVT, is IIRC, scheduled to close in the next year or two (and there's another waste!) That's probably why there's no CVT in the Escape.

 

C&D's complaints about skidpad results were not only bizarre, they also showed that none of the C&D drivers know (or could be bothered to learn) enough to turn off the Escape RSC. Of course if RSC wasn't standard, they'd be bellyaching about that too....

 

Anyway to the Escape braking and skidpad: My thinking is we're looking at tires, tires, tires. Methinks Ford may have gone with a low-rolling resistance compound (and probably a cheaper overall tire) than the outgoing model, thus explaining the longer stopping distances and poor skidpad results.

Thanks for explaining the transmission issue. Strange to close that one and not the one who makes the old 4A. Which one is that? Seriously, my dad had a Five Hundred demo and the CVT was great for the D30. One of Fords best kept secrets IMHO. Too bad it didn't catch on. I am aware of the limitations and not ignoring that. Still, it has (or had) potential to carry on in the Escape untill the CD2 platform is finally paid off. Oh well, C'est la vie.

 

First Explorer, Edge and now Escape with the tires? Can't get a brake (pun unintended) or will they ever learn? It does sounds like a money issue regarding the Edge and Escape with the tires. In the winter, I have to buy a set of real winter tires anyway so I get good ones. It's an investment. It's a PITA to have to get another set to compensate for the crap ones that come with the vehicle.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Hugh

[wescoent]

Idk... putting a CVT in an SUV that might see towing duty is just a recipe for exploded transmissions when Joe Yachtsman decides to tow his hideously overweight trailer with his Escape.

 

Ford should consider either seriously upgrading the current Escape (better tires, better brakes, new V6), or just switch to the C2 IosisXUV.

[MGallun]

Idk... putting a CVT in an SUV that might see towing duty is just a recipe for exploded transmissions when Joe Yachtsman decides to tow his hideously overweight trailer with his Escape.

 

Ford should consider either seriously upgrading the current Escape (better tires, better brakes, new V6), or just switch to the C2 IosisXUV.

 

 

here we go again, with the HP stuff again.. it doesnt have a 6 speed auto and 250hp engine to make it go to 0-60 in 7 flat or faster!

 

blah, who cares! these arent race cars! the 3.0 4speed auto still does what 8 sec060 and 1/4 around 16sec? to me thats fine, it can go if it needs to... same stupid shit about my fusion, oh it doesnt have 240-hp or 260hp.. so what. it still goes 060 in low 7s.. ya, thats fast enough on the street for me thinks.. 6 speed tranny may be nice, maybe better fuel economy and responsiveness etc...

 

plus the espcae in and out looks a ton better than the competition... the limited with the chrome front, chrome "cladded" wheels and chrome racks looks awesome... new CRV looks like a feaking egg or something.. and sure doesnt look like it could do anytype of off road work.

 

and its just more example of ford can do no good, friend of my a few weeks ago was looking at little cars, civic ex, corolla s, mazda3, focus...

 

mazda and focus murder them too in performance... no wonder them cars get 40mpg.. they cant get out of their way at all.. but, that doesnt seem to hurt thier sales at all...

Edited May 9, 2007 by MGallun

[mettech]

Some people thought that the Model T was good enough too. Why change anything about it? The Model T gets you from point A to point B and you can get any color you want...as long as it's black.

 

The point is: Either your a class leader, or your not :shades: . And nothing about the Escape is a class leader today.

[Michael Reynolds]

Here's how I see the Escape:

 

Interior: Compared to the old 300% better, but as far as I'm concerned for as much as those are being peddled for it would have been wise to use plastics @ high traffic areas (namely the center console area that houses the shifter/cupholder) that do not scratch once you breathe on them. The high gloss piano black trim is not a good fit here but then again neither is the other plastic crap used there. Another area that requires attention would be the louvers that control the vents for airflow. They look like they were purchased from the dime store.

 

Engine/Tranmission: One word. Unacceptable! The Non VVT D30 and 4 speed was antiquated a year and a half ago. I-4 Options are no better.

 

Exterior: I like it, different and stands out.

 

I wish Ford were in a better financial situation because a further subsidized Hybrid costing roughly as much as the V6 does would be an awesome ace to have in the back pocket. The Hybrid is an often over looked vehicle with a lot going for it.

[Deanh]

side note....have customers that want the damn things...can't supply product!!!!! Seems the 08's are pretty popular and tough to get...further education for the masses...one CANNOT get a white or Vista Blue Hybrid with a sunroof?????? any other color yes.......who's bonehead idea was that and how can it be justified????????

[silvrsvt]

side note....have customers that want the damn things...can't supply product!!!!! Seems the 08's are pretty popular and tough to get...further education for the masses...one CANNOT get a white or Vista Blue Hybrid with a sunroof?????? any other color yes.......who's bonehead idea was that and how can it be justified????????

 

 

Can't get Sat radio in a White Hybrid either! Only thing I can come up with is Fleet sales?

 

I saw about 6 up at the local Ford Dealer from me...maybe you can get stock from them

 

Are they selling well or just people who want them can't get them?

[Deanh]

Can't get Sat radio in a White Hybrid either! Only thing I can come up with is Fleet sales?

 

I saw about 6 up at the local Ford Dealer from me...maybe you can get stock from them

 

Are they selling well or just people who want them can't get them?

sales DEFINITELY reflective of gas prices ( probably the reason the evil imports are seemingly doing well )...we sold out of hybrids quick...and dealer trades are sometimes ok, BUT you need color trades!!!! which we don't have! Plenty of diesel Superduty's though...maybe because they are north of $50k...wowzers!