What??? Mazda2 is NOT US bound???

[waymondospiff]

I don't normally put much stock in "reporting" from Edmunds.com, but this piece involves direct quotes by a Mazda official at the Mazda2's launch party in Japan.

 

http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/07/mazda-missed-op.html

 

Michelle Krebs describes these reasons why the Mazda2 is not heading this way:

 

-Mazda "pick[ing] and choos[ing]" which markets to cover in NA. The B-market is low margin so why choose it?

-Mazda3 demand continuing to put pressure on Mazda's ability to produce - why add a lower margin vehicle to reduce the supply of Mazda3s?

-Ongoing Mazda dealer restructuring - poor time to launch (another) new car.

 

But I, like Krebs, believe this is a lost opportunity for Mazda. Marketshare, (modest) profit, brand-loyal new owners, CAFE standards, good press/publicity, etc. There are many reasons why I think the Mazda2 should be brought to the US, possibly the most important being to ensure Mazda keeps its "hip and fun" market standing - popularity comes and goes in the consumer market; Mazda has it, it needs to keep it.

 

And if Mazda is willing to ship 15,000 Mazda5s here every year with ZERO marketing into a non-existant market, I can't believe it's all that much of a stretch to send over 15,000 Mazda2s here with ZERO marketing but a defined (and expanding) market.

 

Most concerning, however, is Mazda's apparent lack of production capacity. I don't know enough about Mazda's operations to know this one way or the other, but if Mazda wants to grow (which appears to be the case with the product onslaught here and abroad) yet Mazda is at it's production capacity, something has to give: either no growth or capacity increases. I think a flex plant here in the US that can build 3/5/CX7/6/CX9/MPV is in order.

 

None of this deals with Canada where they have a much greater appreciation for Mazda than we Americans do. With the Mazda love up North, combined with the Mazda2's fuel efficiency, it'd probably be a runaway hit!

 

Scott

[Blueblood]

Sometimes I wonder if everything under the Ford empire is run by complete morons..

 

With CAFE, the more 50 mpg B cars you sell, the more highly profitable trucks, SUV's, and CUV's you can sell.

 

And of course, another cool car the whole world will probably get except for us here in the US..

[Misteredog]

I still can't figure out why Mazda has no plans to build the 3 in North America given that their capacity is so stretched, and why the don't make the 2.0 litre available on the hatch version of the 3. Unfortunately theis doesn't surpise me, Mazda had a hit a the NAIAS 3 years ago with the MX-Micro Sport and we didn't get that either.

[LincolnFan]

Ford's lease in the AAI is almost up, and Mazda will have ability to easily build 120K annually there.

 

Why don't they build the Mazda 2 there?

[sranger]

I am not quite sure what is going on at Mazda these days. You would think that they could easly pick up an old Ford plant or two here in the U.S. I agree that the 3 series are nice cars, much more attractive than the Focus. It could be that Ford does not want them to expand their market share...

 

I have been very dissapointed with my CX-9. I can understand why it's sales are declining.

[Catalepsy]

I guess I'm in the minority of not seeing a massive market for b-cars. The law of automotive evolution dictates all vehicles become larger with each generation...while I hear a lot of complaint about it, they seem to sell a lot of the bigger vehicles.

 

I'm not saying Ford brands shouldn't have a small car option out there, but since Ford is already going to bring b-cars soon, why Mazda?

 

I don't think people will start buying tiny cars. With oil prices going higher, people are switching from massiv SUVs to cars, but I don't see a trend to b-cars. Any type of impact on these cars and they are totalled. They are unsafe especially for rear passengers. Also, they are not cheap! I just don't see a regular Joe with a family packing his kids in the back seat of one.

 

 

 

I don't normally put much stock in "reporting" from Edmunds.com, but this piece involves direct quotes by a Mazda official at the Mazda2's launch party in Japan.

 

http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/07/mazda-missed-op.html

 

Michelle Krebs describes these reasons why the Mazda2 is not heading this way:

 

-Mazda "pick[ing] and choos[ing]" which markets to cover in NA. The B-market is low margin so why choose it?

-Mazda3 demand continuing to put pressure on Mazda's ability to produce - why add a lower margin vehicle to reduce the supply of Mazda3s?

-Ongoing Mazda dealer restructuring - poor time to launch (another) new car.

 

But I, like Krebs, believe this is a lost opportunity for Mazda. Marketshare, (modest) profit, brand-loyal new owners, CAFE standards, good press/publicity, etc. There are many reasons why I think the Mazda2 should be brought to the US, possibly the most important being to ensure Mazda keeps its "hip and fun" market standing - popularity comes and goes in the consumer market; Mazda has it, it needs to keep it.

 

And if Mazda is willing to ship 15,000 Mazda5s here every year with ZERO marketing into a non-existant market, I can't believe it's all that much of a stretch to send over 15,000 Mazda2s here with ZERO marketing but a defined (and expanding) market.

 

Most concerning, however, is Mazda's apparent lack of production capacity. I don't know enough about Mazda's operations to know this one way or the other, but if Mazda wants to grow (which appears to be the case with the product onslaught here and abroad) yet Mazda is at it's production capacity, something has to give: either no growth or capacity increases. I think a flex plant here in the US that can build 3/5/CX7/6/CX9/MPV is in order.

 

None of this deals with Canada where they have a much greater appreciation for Mazda than we Americans do. With the Mazda love up North, combined with the Mazda2's fuel efficiency, it'd probably be a runaway hit!

 

Scott

[Biker16]

Ford's lease in the AAI is almost up, and Mazda will have ability to easily build 120K annually there.

 

Why don't they build the Mazda 2 there?

what lease? there ain't no f'n lease. ford owns 50% of AAI.

[LincolnV]

None of this deals with Canada where they have a much greater appreciation for Mazda than we Americans do. With the Mazda love up North, combined with the Mazda2's fuel efficiency, it'd probably be a runaway hit!

 

Scott

 

Does this mean that Canada is getting the Mazda 2 then?

[Explorer4X4]

Mazda2 is obviously not coming to the United States, duh, why would it? To steal Ford sales and make things worse for Ford and Lincoln-Mercury? No, last I heard is Ford is going to bring either the Fiesta (seen testing in America) or a Mazda2-based compact badged as a Ford for the domestic market.

[NickF1011]

Sometimes I wonder if everything under the Ford empire is run by complete morons..

 

With CAFE, the more 50 mpg B cars you sell, the more highly profitable trucks, SUV's, and CUV's you can sell.

 

And of course, another cool car the whole world will probably get except for us here in the US..

 

CAFE is not much of a concern for Mazda, and Mazda's CAFE numbers don't contribute to Ford's. So, there's little CAFE incentive to bring the Mazda2 here. I can pretty much agree that there's no point in bringing out the Mazda2 when they still can't even get enough higher-profit Mazda3's here.

[ANTAUS]

I dont really see a reason why not to bring the Mazda2 here. If you can sell let's say a paltry 2K units a month, out of a vehicle which your already producing elsewhere, and on a platform which your trying to maximize it's usage, then why not?

 

I'm not so much worried of it cannibalizing Mazda3 sales because as it stands, the 3 is selling quite well and almost at full capacity, secondly...putting the 2 and 3 next to each other, your going to have many people say "Oh damn, I dont want that death trap" and step up to the 3 anyways.

 

Again, this makes no sense. Let's see if other news sources state the same...

 

BTW, it must be a slow morning at this organizations, because I've been checking a few news sites as my usual monday morning routine and many of them haven't updated to todays stories...

[suv_guy_19]

I dont really see a reason why not to bring the Mazda2 here. If you can sell let's say a paltry 2K units a month, out of a vehicle which your already producing elsewhere, and on a platform which your trying to maximize it's usage, then why not?

 

I'm not so much worried of it cannibalizing Mazda3 sales because as it stands, the 3 is selling quite well and almost at full capacity, secondly...putting the 2 and 3 next to each other, your going to have many people say "Oh damn, I dont want that death trap" and step up to the 3 anyways.

 

Again, this makes no sense. Let's see if other news sources state the same...

 

BTW, it must be a slow morning at this organizations, because I've been checking a few news sites as my usual monday morning routine and many of them haven't updated to todays stories...

 

 

Many people would not step up to the 3 and would buy the 2 instead.....that would be bad for Mazda and Ford...bringing it here would not really be smart....people seem to forget that they do research this kind of thing to see what would be best....I'm guessing this is what they determined.

[MKII]

I'm not so much worried of it cannibalizing Mazda3 sales because as it stands, the 3 is selling quite well and almost at full capacity, secondly...putting the 2 and 3 next to each other, your going to have many people say "Oh damn, I dont want that death trap" and step up to the 3 anyways.

 

Again, this makes no sense. Let's see if other news sources state the same...

 

Exactly, it doesn't seem to fit with Ford's overall "Way forward" philosophy.

[ANTAUS]

And to add to that, it's better to offer something, than have a good chance the person won't buy anything period. The vehicle doesn't need to make a huge profit. Same occurs with the Camry, Toyota has admitted they break even, but offer the vehicle hoping that the customer will have a good experience and trade for something with a higher profit margin.

 

If anything, I would first offer the Mazda2, see how reliable it is coming from the Brazil plant...and IF it is, then go ahead and offer a version of it to Ford...that way you dont drag Fords quality numbers they have been doing great in recently.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

With them at capacity in the US for the Mazda3, why would they want to shed some of that capacity for a lower margin B car? The 2 will likely be more coveted in other countries that have better embraced the B segment anyway and will command a higher effective margin there anyway.

 

As for Mazda's capacity, it has been strongly rumored that they have been scouring the US for a site for another plant (either existing idled ford facilities, or new construction). Also, I believe that they still haven't 100% recovered from the effects of a plant fire that they had several years ago.

[LincolnFan]

what lease? there ain't no f'n lease. ford owns 50% of AAI.

 

Wait wut? I thought Igor said something about Ford's lease in AAI and Ford might have to move the Mustang somewhere else in the next years...

[inteller]

Wait wut? I thought Igor said something about Ford's lease in AAI and Ford might have to move the Mustang somewhere else in the next years...

 

and that concludes Chapter 20 in "Don't Believe Everything You Read on an Internet Message Board" by Robert T.F. Mickleson.

[Misteredog]

I am not quite sure what is going on at Mazda these days. You would think that they could easly pick up an old Ford plant or two here in the U.S. I agree that the 3 series are nice cars, much more attractive than the Focus. It could be that Ford does not want them to expand their market share...

 

I have been very dissapointed with my CX-9. I can understand why it's sales are declining.

 

Just curious, but what problems have you had with your CX-9?

[Blue II]

Some think Ford should let Mazda go. Mazda has made rumblings about buying itself out of (((((((Ford OWNERSHIP OF 33%)))))))). Some think they don't do enough for Ford. They do balk at Ford plans. Their quality can be suspect. Their fleet does not help Ford's CAFE. Their sales do not help market share.

 

Recently they opted out of the 2.5 engine program. Let them go and take LR/Jag with them.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Blue II

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Mazda's continued profits (which Ford is entitled to a percentage of) and their small car expertise are more than enough reason to keep them around. That and their gateway abilities into the Asian market should continue to assist Ford as a whole.

[MERKURXR4Ti]

Some think Ford should let Mazda go. Mazda has made rumblings about buying itself out of Ford ownership. Some think they don't do enough for Ford. They do balk at Ford plans. Their quality can be suspect. Their fleet does not help Ford's CAFE. Their sales do not help market share.

 

Recently they opted out of the 2.5 engine program. Let them go and take LR/Jag with them.

 

Would they be able to support themselves alone? Seems to me theyre too intertwined, platforms, engines and whatnot.

 

Anyway though, let mazda fix their capacity issues while the fiesta gets sold here, itll be the same car anyway...

Edited July 9, 2007 by MERKURXR4Ti

[sranger]

Just curious, but what problems have you had with your CX-9?

 

 

Just curious, but what problems have you had with your CX-9?

 

It has some positives:

 

1) The thing handles very good. I would not have believe that a 4500lb vehicle could handle so well until I drive it.

2) It stops good.

3) Has as an excellent sound system.

4) It also has a lot of storage area with the third row seats folded.

5) Good forward vision.

6) I think it looks great.

 

My dissapointment is mainly a lot of little things and one big problem. Here is my top ten list...

 

1) Very uncomfortable seats. Initially they seem comfortable, but after several long drives, the idoitic rolled edge seams running right down the middle on the side bolsters in the seat bottoms began to cause sore spots on my legs and rear end. ( I am 6'-4", 230lb so smaller people probably would not be affected ) It is not really somthing that you would notice on a test drive. It takes a while for the constant pressure to become an issue. I had to alter the foam to make them tolerable. I included a fewe of pics of how I cut a groove in the foam under the seam to relieve the pressure points it caused. Mazda and the dealer were useless and gave me a polite but official screw you about the issue, so I had to fixed it my self....

 

2) Very poor navigation system. The DVD map is severly out of date and no replacement is avaliable. The voice command simply does not work. The user interface is pathetic when compared to the Garmin Nuvii 330 that I have.

 

3) It is quite weak of the line. A little more torque ( i.e. 3.7L is in order ). Not really a complaint, but more of a regret that I did not wait for the 2008 which get the 3.7L engine.

 

4) Sunroof defelector is very noisy. I am working on a replacement. I did a clay model the significantly reduced the noise.

 

5) There is a lot ofwind noise at the top of the front doors at highway speeds.

 

6) The locking/unlocking sequence of the keyless system is stupid.

 

7) It needs more internal storage bins.

 

8) The second row seats are too low to the floor making it uncomfortable for adults on long trips. At least they do recline.

 

9) No cross bars with the roof rack? I did not find this out until after I bought it. And yes I did ASUME they were included....

 

10) The heated seats are simply on or off. When they cycle they get too hot before they kick off and then too cold before the kick in again.

 

You would be suprised at how fast your opinion of a car can change when it gives you a sore rear end. It just soured me on the vehicle in the first few long drives and I guess to other things are just that much more annoying as a result.

 

I honestly whish I had just bought an MKX and simply upgraded the brakes with some after market systems ( there are already several avaliable ) The brakes were my main problem with the MKX. I drove a loaner for a day and the brakes just felt quite weak. My old 2000 F150 Extended cab stopped better. Of course, in hind site, I think I would have been much happier with the MKX even if I had to replace the brakes...

 

Live and learn....

[LincolnFan]

Some think Ford should let Mazda go. Mazda has made rumblings about buying itself out of Ford ownership. Some think they don't do enough for Ford. They do balk at Ford plans. Their quality can be suspect. Their fleet does not help Ford's CAFE. Their sales do not help market share.

 

Recently they opted out of the 2.5 engine program. Let them go and take LR/Jag with them.

 

Wait, the 2.5 is now Ford's design? YES! The 2.3 Performance was midpack and probably had the worst mileage in it's class.

 

I guess the Japanese don't really like the Americans interfering. The problem is, most of their good vehicles are Ford biased (MZ3) while the so-so ones are their incarnations (MZ6, it isnt bad but it lacked in safety).

[smok]

Many people would not step up to the 3 and would buy the 2 instead.....that would be bad for Mazda and Ford...bringing it here would not really be smart....people seem to forget that they do research this kind of thing to see what would be best....I'm guessing this is what they determined.

 

I disagree. Look at Honda, do you think the Fit is killing the Civic sales?

 

Think about it, the person who bought the 2 might be back for a CX7 in a few years...

[mackinaw]

Some think Ford should let Mazda go. Mazda has made rumblings about buying itself out of Ford ownership.

 

Ford doesn't own Mazda. The have a controlling interest (34%). Big difference.