OFFICIAL: Next Focus and Fusion on GLOBAL PLATFORMS

[Blueblood]

The problem is that even if the entire nation adopts California standards, California will just make a new standard so they can still feel superior to everyone else.

 

You talk as if california was a person..

[NickF1011]

You talk as if california was a person..

 

They are a collective, not unsimilar to the Borg in many ways.

[Deanh]

I didn't say it was bad on ALL levels...but the insanity needs to end somewhere. The leftist wackos are getting too much clout out in Commifornia.

I agree to a certain extent..but at least they are pro-active, and if the whole country adopted their emmisions ...ultimately it would save Ford $ by streamlining developemnet and manufacturing....so why not?...Commifornia...funny! but it is one of the biggest...if not THE biggest most competitive car markets...would LOVE someone to dig up total registrations ( irrespective of manufacturers ) per state....

[NickF1011]

I agree to a certain extent..but at least they are pro-active, and if the whole country adopted their emmisions ...ultimately it would save Ford $ by streamlining developemnet and manufacturing....so why not?...Commifornia...funny! but it is one of the biggest...if not THE biggest most competitive car markets...would LOVE someone to dig up total registrations ( irrespective of manufacturers ) per state....

 

Pro-ative is one thing. Over-reactive is another.

[Deanh]

Pro-ative is one thing. Over-reactive is another.

anything "green" will continue on this 'overboard"tract...in fact it may even get worse..while I agree they are sometimes MASSIVELY over the top...we all stem to benefit, and blame the over reaction to pho-pahs of past mistakes, certain amounts of ignorance and the don't give a rats a$$ attitudes from prior years....THAT will always breed extremists....and before I get labelled as a "Greenie".....I like good clean countryside as much as the next guy....but trash/ cigarettes being thrown outa windows and breathing in the belching black smoke whilst sitting on a bike behind someone that basically doesn't give a rats.......annoys the crap outa me.... anything that cleans up any exhaust is fine by me.....and fine the retards that seem oblivious to the clouds puking out of their untuned Chevelles....back to subject...why can't vehicles WORLDWIDE let alone statewide be manufactured to one emmision standard albeit stringent ie California? Seems like wasted revenue to me for sure...

Edited August 29, 2007 by Deanh

[NickF1011]

why can't vehicles WORLDWIDE let alone statewide be manufactured to one emmision standard albeit stringent ie California? Seems like wasted revenue to me for sure...

 

Clean costs money, that's why. It's also more difficult to extract power from a clean engine.

 

Here's the question you really need to ask yourself: Would you settle for an engine that's 90% cleaner than your current engine if it only made half the power and it cost twice as much?

 

I wouldn't.

[Deanh]

Clean costs money, that's why. It's also more difficult to extract power from a clean engine.

 

Here's the question you really need to ask yourself: Would you settle for an engine that's 90% cleaner than your current engine if it only made half the power and it cost twice as much?

 

I wouldn't.

that doesn't make sense.....show ONE Californian car that makes a significant amount of less Hp...and 1 which retails more....hint...invoice on Cal emmisions...zero....sure, from a manufacturing cost it may be a few bux more....but once again, simplifying manufacturing costs would eventually be re-couped......

[NickF1011]

that doesn't make sense.....show ONE Californian car that makes a significant amount of less Hp...and 1 which retails more....hint...invoice on Cal emmisions...zero....sure, from a manufacturing cost it may be a few bux more....but once again, simplifying manufacturing costs would eventually be re-couped......

 

I'll show you what a California emissions car would make for power with zero emissions controls on it like half the cars sold around the world. That was my point. Would it be simpler for all US cars to have the same emissions? Sure. I agree there. But you can't expect for a second that countries like China, India, and Russia are going to happily jump aboard the new emissions standards we have here.

[StevenCaylor]

It's mainly because of our geography that we have such a difficult time with smog. We've had different emission regulations for 47 years. I remember that really bad years of the 70's and 80's. You had to pay for the extra smog equipment, you got less horsepower and significantly lower MPG. Nowadays, it's free, has no effect on horsepower (except the Focus) and no effect on MPG.

[Deanh]

I'll show you what a California emissions car would make for power with zero emissions controls on it like half the cars sold around the world. That was my point. Would it be simpler for all US cars to have the same emissions? Sure. I agree there. But you can't expect for a second that countries like China, India, and Russia are going to happily jump aboard the new emissions standards we have here.

so we should be irresponsible like third world countries as well? unfortunately the States has to be a leader in attacking the global warming fiasco...leading by example here is a good thing....and hopefully eventually abstainers will be forced to follow....global emmisions control wouldn't be such a bad thing...granted some will snub their noses.....China should be FORCED to comply...that and have condom machines every 5feet ( length of a chinese mattress...LOL! )

[arkm1]

so we should be irresponsible like third world countries as well? unfortunately the States has to be a leader in attacking the global warming fiasco...leading by example here is a good thing....and hopefully eventually abstainers will be forced to follow....global emmisions control wouldn't be such a bad thing...granted some will snub their noses.....China should be FORCED to comply...that and have condom machines every 5feet ( length of a chinese mattress...LOL! )

 

Why do all of these topics always go off course into something that has nothing to do with the original topic. My 2 cents on this issue. As the price of Rhodium goes into the stratosphere, we're going to have huge issues with Catalytic converters being far too expensive. They're already becoming a target for thieves. Plus while I definitely enjoy clean air, I don't see anything wrong with what we have now. In fact, if it weren't for these emission laws, we could get more fuel efficient diesels in the US.

 

Now does anyone want to talk about new Focus and Fusion??? I'm personally still hoping we can get the Mondeo in some fasion. That vehicle is gorgeous.

Edited August 29, 2007 by arkm1

[Deanh]

Why do all of these topics always go off course into something that has nothing to do with the original topic. My 2 cents on this issue. As the price of Rhodium goes into the stratosphere, we're going to have huge issues with Catalytic converters being far too expensive. They're already becoming a target for thieves. Plus while I definitely enjoy clean air, I don't see anything wrong with what we have now. In fact, if it weren't for these emission laws, we could get more fuel efficient diesels in the US.

 

Now does anyone want to talk about new Focus and Fusion??? I'm personally still hoping we can get the Mondeo in some fasion. That vehicle is gorgeous.

we do go off on our tangents don't we...I think it started along the lines of us wishing we were getting the same cars as the Euros .....where emissions came up I don't know.....oh thats right...GLOBAL architecture and platforms, one recipe as such ....and as far as diesels go, I really wonder which is worse of two evils ....more particulates or using less fuel...I would LOVE a small 6 speed manual hatchback ala Peugeot..........

Edited August 29, 2007 by Deanh

[NickF1011]

so we should be irresponsible like third world countries as well? unfortunately the States has to be a leader in attacking the global warming fiasco...leading by example here is a good thing....and hopefully eventually abstainers will be forced to follow....global emmisions control wouldn't be such a bad thing...granted some will snub their noses.....China should be FORCED to comply...that and have condom machines every 5feet ( length of a chinese mattress...LOL! )

 

I'm not saying that we should eliminate anything that currently exists. I'm just saying that trying to establish a global standard is a pipe dream. And I'm all for being responsible, as long as it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg to do it.

[Deanh]

I'm not saying that we should eliminate anything that currently exists. I'm just saying that trying to establish a global standard is a pipe dream. And I'm all for being responsible, as long as it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg to do it.

I don't think its a pipe dream at all, eventually I see it happening....it has too, most countries are becoming VERY aware of the effects, the only ones I see NOT complying are those in their own bubble or eco system as such, China, Russia India perhaps...and them only because they manufacture their own cars....but if the / their public DEMANDS an imported car then don't give them a choice, especially if there isn't one.......that is if all cars are manufactured with the same content.....

[NickF1011]

I don't think its a pipe dream at all, eventually I see it happening....it has too, most countries are becoming VERY aware of the effects, the only ones I see NOT complying are those in their own bubble or eco system as such, China, Russia India perhaps...and them only because they manufacture their own cars....but if the / their public DEMANDS an imported car then don't give them a choice, especially if there isn't one.......that is if all cars are manufactured with the same content.....

 

We can't figure out a global standard for much of anything, let alone something as complex and controversial as emissions regulations. I don't see it happening in my lifetime.

[jpd80]

Now does anyone want to talk about new Focus and Fusion??? I'm personally still hoping we can get the Mondeo in some fasion. That vehicle is gorgeous.

 

Yes, I'd like to know what parts of the platforms are needed for Globalisation. The evolution of EUCD from the Focus C1 platform, comonality electrical package and some suspension components (?) was possible. I'd like to know what will transpire between the three existing

larger FWD platforms, CD3, D3 and EUCD.

So do we end up with one platform or three continuing with shared powertrain, electrical systems and maybe suspensions?

 

I wonder with Global RWD stewing along in the background, will Taurus/MKS be the largest FWD vehicles required?

If so maybe CD3/EUCD/D3 are big enough to carry this range.

[Deanh]

We can't figure out a global standard for much of anything, let alone something as complex and controversial as emissions regulations. I don't see it happening in my lifetime.

me either, and I had my 12th birthday the other day....... Anyway, i think you will see it eventually due to the necessity of streamlining costs internationally aftr all Ford is an international compant, this global platforms I see as the first sign that someone sees the WHOLE picture...and its a good one as inherently Euros get lauded for their chassis and interiors, this is the first significant sign that inter-communication has been recognised as a plus, both from a cost standpoint AND a potentially superior product....what is next...drivetrains? emmisions?....and ( hopefully ) styling..... ( thats my opinion there )......arkm1 will be happy...weve come back on topic......

Edited August 29, 2007 by Deanh

[ehaase]

As big as the new Accord is, maybe the next generation Fusion should be on a shortened D3 platform.

[NickF1011]

As big as the new Accord is, maybe the next generation Fusion should be on a shortened D3 platform.

 

The reason the Accord got bigger was because it had to. They have no fullsize car above it so they need one vehicle to try covering two segments. Most of the other automakers have figured out that's not the right approach. Ford won't have to make it larger since they have the Taurus to fill the larger car role that Honda lacks.

 

I do see the Fusion and Five Hundred eventually sharing a platform though since D3 is pretty much a dead-end platform with no other international models to share development costs. I'm guessing they will both eventually move over to EUCD2.

Edited August 29, 2007 by NickF1011

[Blueblood]

They are a collective, not unsimilar to the Borg in many ways.

 

I actually think you believe that, and it's pathetic...

 

 

Nothing beats the "groupthink" of the neo-cons..

[suv_guy_19]

I actually think you believe that, and it's pathetic...

Nothing beats the "groupthink" of the neo-cons..

 

 

If anything, I would say you are more of a Neo-con than Nick.

[NickF1011]

If anything, I would say you are more of a Neo-con than Nick.

 

 

Tell me about it. Overall, I'm a rather non-political person, except when it comes to taxes.

[silvrsvt]

I'm guessing they will both eventually move over to EUCD2.

 

 

question of the hour is can it support something as big as the Flex?...if anything the Taurus could be introduced over in Europe slotted over the Mondeo under a different name, plus if Ford still owns Volvo, it can share the D3 with the S80 and XC90

[atomcat68]

You talk as if california was a person..

California has all the movie stars who push all this crap on everyone. They want us all to drive Prius hybrids, yet they fly on private jets! They have San Fran, LA, Arnold as a gov. They are different than most.

You mean to tell me whenever some dopey political idea comes up like CAFE, you don't notice it ususally starts in California?

 

No, it's true that not everyone thinks that way, but you have a mush higher percentage of people who do. Massachusetts, my home state is the same way! How can Ted Kennedy be re-elected so many times? The only other state he could flourish is CA! Ma has most of the nutty stuff as CA. We just dont have all the "stars" to make things worse.

[Noah Harbinger]

You mean to tell me whenever some dopey political idea comes up like CAFE, you don't notice it ususally starts in California?

 

What does CAFE have to do with California? It was enacted by Congress in the 70's.