Ovaltine Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Some quick thoughts about vehicle naming based on other recent discussion on here, coupled with observations on the road today. 1. Saw a Fusion and a prev-gen Taurus behind each other at an intersection. Seeing these two essentially side-by-side clearly illustrates that the Fusion IS the spiritual successor to the Taurus. Another poster on here basically said the same thing, and I agree. In all honesty, the Fusion name has not established a long and storied history yet. I would guess that where it is mentioned, the feedback and sentiment is positive. But.... with only a few years of production and 120k+ a year sales so far, a "legend" it is not. The ultimate (and final) move of the Taurus name to the next redesigned version of the Fusion would make a lot of sense, esp. in light of my next suggestion. 2. The "new" Taurus (aka: 500) is just TOO big to really be a Taurus. The body is also just too VW-ish to be a Ford as well. The base platform is probably Ford's best.... but it's the body styling that I feel puts people off. My suggestion? A MAJOR reskin that puts a neo-classical, macho, more squared off look sporting a name well recognized by Ford fans...... LTD! Obviously the 'Landau' and 'Brougham' monikers would be resigned to the dust bin of history, but I personally have a very positive perception of the LTD name. It's short and sweet, it's easy to remember, and it has a very real pedigree. Just slapping it on the current 500/Taurus model obviously isn't possible or advisable. BUT.... putting it on a redesigned version, while moving the Taurus name down to a redesigned Fusion (with the quiet retiring of the name Fusion) makes sense to me. 3. What to do with the name 'Crown Victoria'? I say leave it to rot on the current Panther series until it's decommissioned, and then bury it for good. I *HATE* that fuddy-duddy name with a *passion*... unless it's on the proper car, a 1956 Crown Vickie. C'mon Ford... face it. The buyers who *have* to have a car named 'Crown Victoria' are dropping in droves, just like the buyers of the Grand Marquis (a name that I do like better than CV). I'm in my mid-40's, and will NEVER drive a car called 'Crown Victoria'. Sorry, but that's the way it is. And I would lay some serious cash down and bet that there's A LOT of folks just like me. The LTD name though is palatable though, and could really be polished up if it was put on some really nice looking iron. Don't even THINK about shifting the name 'Crown Victoria' down to another line of FoMoCo vehicles in the future.... esp. if you want to sell a measurable amount of full sized vehicles to people 65 years or younger. -Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) Check some of these classic LTD's out, when thinking about what kind of total sheetmetal redesign could be put on the current 500/Taurus chassis. http://www.carsclassic.com/stock/Active_Ca...%20LTD%2056.JPG http://www.carsclassic.com/stock/Active_Ca...d%20LTD%203.JPG http://i1.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/b0/50/f376_1_b.JPG http://i4.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/86/94/d5aa_1.JPG http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_image...99/395266_5.jpg http://www.flee.com/ltd/gueststars/71_ltd_convertible.jpg http://www.hireoldcars.com/images/car5.jpg http://ned.ronet.ru/0/1970%20Ford%20LTD.jpg http://ned.ronet.ru/0/1971%20Ford%20LTD.jpg http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources...D_Taillight.jpg I know that a chassis like the 500/Taurus has "hard points" that have to be "hit", and that's why the dimensions of the current model are a bit awkward... due to pre-existing Volvo bits. But.... The above are proof that not ALL LTD's were the stodgy bloat-mobiles of the mid to late 70's. -Ovaltine Edited October 11, 2007 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Some quick thoughts about vehicle naming based on other recent discussion on here, coupled with observations on the road today. 1. Saw a Fusion and a prev-gen Taurus behind each other at an intersection. Seeing these two essentially side-by-side clearly illustrates that the Fusion IS the spiritual successor to the Taurus. Another poster on here basically said the same thing, and I agree. In all honesty, the Fusion name has not established a long and storied history yet. I would guess that where it is mentioned, the feedback and sentiment is positive. But.... with only a few years of production and 120k+ a year sales so far, a "legend" it is not. The ultimate (and final) move of the Taurus name to the next redesigned version of the Fusion would make a lot of sense, esp. in light of my next suggestion. 2. The "new" Taurus (aka: 500) is just TOO big to really be a Taurus. The body is also just too VW-ish to be a Ford as well. The base platform is probably Ford's best.... but it's the body styling that I feel puts people off. My suggestion? A MAJOR reskin that puts a neo-classical, macho, more squared off look sporting a name well recognized by Ford fans...... LTD! Obviously the 'Landau' and 'Brougham' monikers would be resigned to the dust bin of history, but I personally have a very positive perception of the LTD name. It's short and sweet, it's easy to remember, and it has a very real pedigree. Last year, Ford sold over 140,000 Fusions and this year is on target to go over 150,000 Fusions. The Taurus/500 was supposed to be in 100,000 territory and first year made it, but not after. Yes, I would agree that he Taurus needs a major reskin like the Escape and Focus got. Keep the big trunk and roominess, but change the profile. Ford changed the profile of the Focus withoug changing its roominess. In fact, the trunk on the new Focus looks bigger than the old which is important. Just slapping it on the current 500/Taurus model obviously isn't possible or advisable. BUT.... putting it on a redesigned version, while moving the Taurus name down to a redesigned Fusion (with the quiet retiring of the name Fusion) makes sense to me. 3. What to do with the name 'Crown Victoria'? I say leave it to rot on the current Panther series until it's decommissioned, and then bury it for good. I *HATE* that fuddy-duddy name with a *passion*... unless it's on the proper car, a 1956 Crown Vickie. C'mon Ford... face it. The buyers who *have* to have a car named 'Crown Victoria' are dropping in droves, just like the buyers of the Grand Marquis (a name that I do like better than CV). I'm in my mid-40's, and will NEVER drive a car called 'Crown Victoria'. Sorry, but that's the way it is. And I would lay some serious cash down and bet that there's A LOT of folks just like me. The LTD name though is palatable though, and could really be polished up if it was put on some really nice looking iron. Don't even THINK about shifting the name 'Crown Victoria' down to another line of FoMoCo vehicles in the future.... esp. if you want to sell a measurable amount of full sized vehicles to people 65 years or younger. -Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Why does everyone believe just because it has the same name of Taurus, it should be the same car? Shoot, the first gen Taurus was a pretty good sized vehicle before the remodel/downsize. I don't know for sure, but the physical dimensions of Gen1 are probably pretty dang close to the new Taurus. So they put an old name on a new car. Big deal. Why do people think this is a negative? It's just a name. The name of Taurus carries some heritage and marketing value and Ford is using it. If someone shows up thinking they'll get something like the old Taurus, the dealer can easily show them something else if the new Taurus is too big. Also, Ford doesn't really have a good name in the smaller car class to carry that same name and marketing value. Contour? Granada? LTDII? Nothing worth digging up again. So the Fusion name is fine. Leave it. Don't muck it up. Stick with it. In the case of the 500 name, and Montego for that matter, Ford didn't market the name enough to garner any model recognition. So they didn't loose much there. Personally, I like the name Montego better than Sable. WTF is a Sable anyway? Some furry animal destined to be a coat? Montego just sticks with me better. But it's just a name and if I lost my Montego in a bone crush accident, the Sable name won't stop me from buying one to replace my Monty. Shoot, I call it my Merc anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Some quick thoughts about vehicle naming based on other recent discussion on here, coupled with observations on the road today. 1. Saw a Fusion and a prev-gen Taurus behind each other at an intersection. Seeing these two essentially side-by-side clearly illustrates that the Fusion IS the spiritual successor to the Taurus. Another poster on here basically said the same thing, and I agree. In all honesty, the Fusion name has not established a long and storied history yet. I would guess that where it is mentioned, the feedback and sentiment is positive. But.... with only a few years of production and 120k+ a year sales so far, a "legend" it is not. The ultimate (and final) move of the Taurus name to the next redesigned version of the Fusion would make a lot of sense, esp. in light of my next suggestion. 2. The "new" Taurus (aka: 500) is just TOO big to really be a Taurus. The body is also just too VW-ish to be a Ford as well. The base platform is probably Ford's best.... but it's the body styling that I feel puts people off. My suggestion? A MAJOR reskin that puts a neo-classical, macho, more squared off look sporting a name well recognized by Ford fans...... LTD! Obviously the 'Landau' and 'Brougham' monikers would be resigned to the dust bin of history, but I personally have a very positive perception of the LTD name. It's short and sweet, it's easy to remember, and it has a very real pedigree. Just slapping it on the current 500/Taurus model obviously isn't possible or advisable. BUT.... putting it on a redesigned version, while moving the Taurus name down to a redesigned Fusion (with the quiet retiring of the name Fusion) makes sense to me. 3. What to do with the name 'Crown Victoria'? I say leave it to rot on the current Panther series until it's decommissioned, and then bury it for good. I *HATE* that fuddy-duddy name with a *passion*... unless it's on the proper car, a 1956 Crown Vickie. C'mon Ford... face it. The buyers who *have* to have a car named 'Crown Victoria' are dropping in droves, just like the buyers of the Grand Marquis (a name that I do like better than CV). I'm in my mid-40's, and will NEVER drive a car called 'Crown Victoria'. Sorry, but that's the way it is. And I would lay some serious cash down and bet that there's A LOT of folks just like me. The LTD name though is palatable though, and could really be polished up if it was put on some really nice looking iron. Don't even THINK about shifting the name 'Crown Victoria' down to another line of FoMoCo vehicles in the future.... esp. if you want to sell a measurable amount of full sized vehicles to people 65 years or younger. -Ovaltine I still think that Five Hundred was as prestigious as Crown Victoria. I agree, the CV name should be dropped (for fleet models...just call it a 'Police Interceptor', like what Dodge did with the SRT-4). Ford, like they did with many models, ruind the CV by neglecting it. It has gotton to the point where no matter what they call a Crown Victoria, it won't sell. The Five Hundred was new and needed a proper name...and 'Five Hundred' was it. Why Ford decided to use a name that was worn out like, Taurus (or CV), is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) In the case of the 500 name, and Montego for that matter, Ford didn't market the name enough to garner any model recognition. Ford did not give the names a chance before they drank "stupid juice" and changed the name to Taurus. I would have much more respect for the '08 Taurus if it had a proper name. Not a worn out, neglected name. Five Hundred was that name. Ford just confused people by renaming the FH, Taurus. There was *some* media attention when the last Taurus rolled off the assembly line. People then knew that the Taurus was dead. Now, the name is back, on a car that is NOTHING like the car that had the name for 21 years. If the Taurus does not sell, blame the name. Edited October 11, 2007 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 If the Taurus does not sell, blame the name. The 500 never sold that well either There was other things that hurt the D3 car and it wasn't the name....if anything the reuse of the Taurus name gave it recognition with people who have owned Ford products in the past. The Accord and Camry had checked pasts before they became the sales phenomenons they are today...why? Partly because they had name recognition. I know when I hear a non-car enthusiast ask what type of car to buy, other non-car enthusiasts parrot off : Camry,Accord or Civic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The 500 never sold that well either I don't deny that. The Five Hundred was an extremely mediocre automobile with a mediocre engine. It had about as much pizazz as Al Gore. The Taurus changed that. It got the engine the FH should have had, it got the looks the FH should have had. Ford knew that the FH was lackluster...thus all of the changes three years after it's introduction. The FH did not sell because it was called 'Five Hundred'. It didn't sell because it was a joke. In fact, Ford's own dealers are confused as to what to call the car, some say Five Hundred and some say Taurus. AB Why the Taurus is seeing crappy sales this year is no surprise. Just look at the name. AB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boegey Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I'm not sure why Ovaltine loves LTD so much and hates Crown Vic. Heck, I remember Crown Victoria starting out as thetop trim level for LTD. I don't date back to the '56 Vickie though. Anyway, to each his own. I guess LTD is a simple name and Crown Vic has been a name relegated to taxis and cop cars. Renaming the 500 Taurus may not have been too bad of an idea. My neighbor is a salesman for a local Ford dealer and he always told me people would come in and want to buy a Taurus but alas no Taurus to be had. When he would try to show them the 500, they wanted to hear nothing about it. They only wanted another Taurus. He was happy because now they could show people the 'new' Taurus. They didn't know or care that it was called a 500. It was always my understanding Ford wanted the Fusion to replace the Contour and the 500 to replace the Taurus. I believe this was based on exterior dimensions. But when looking at interior dimensions (Ford learned a thing or two about packaging while designing the Focus), the Fusion would replace Taurus, the 500 would replace Crown Vic and Contour just went away. Any truth to this or opinions? Boegey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) I'm not sure why Ovaltine loves LTD so much and hates Crown Vic. Heck, I remember Crown Victoria starting out as thetop trim level for LTD. I don't date back to the '56 Vickie though. Anyway, to each his own. I guess LTD is a simple name and Crown Vic has been a name relegated to taxis and cop cars. Boegey: I think the difference is, I'm a child of the late 60's and 70's. LTD's in those years had some personality and style. The CV moniker didn't get applied to the LTD until the 80's, when it had become a squared off RWD old person's car. No offense was intended by my dissing of the CV name. I'm sure that you are probably a bit younger than me and have some positive memories of LTD's of that era. I just can't help it, but when I hear or read the name "Crown Victoria", I keep having this nasty picture flashing in my mind: http://www.micklebring.com/bml/chapter05.htm NOTE: The page above even utilizes the infamous Ford term "Diamond Jubilee" used on the T-Birds of the late 70's! :lol: -Ovaltine Edited October 12, 2007 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I think of this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The first thing that pops on my mind when someone mentions the Vic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Falcon and Fairlane sound nice but Americans might prefer Maverick and Galaxie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Falcon and Fairlane sound nice but Americans might prefer Maverick and Galaxie Outside of Ford fans I don't think anyone would remember these names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyPony Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Check some of these classic LTD's out, when thinking about what kind of total sheetmetal redesign could be put on the current 500/Taurus chassis. http://www.carsclassic.com/stock/Active_Ca...%20LTD%2056.JPG http://www.carsclassic.com/stock/Active_Ca...d%20LTD%203.JPG http://i1.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/b0/50/f376_1_b.JPG http://i4.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/86/94/d5aa_1.JPG http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_image...99/395266_5.jpg http://www.flee.com/ltd/gueststars/71_ltd_convertible.jpg http://www.hireoldcars.com/images/car5.jpg http://ned.ronet.ru/0/1970%20Ford%20LTD.jpg http://ned.ronet.ru/0/1971%20Ford%20LTD.jpg http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources...D_Taillight.jpg I know that a chassis like the 500/Taurus has "hard points" that have to be "hit", and that's why the dimensions of the current model are a bit awkward... due to pre-existing Volvo bits. But.... The above are proof that not ALL LTD's were the stodgy bloat-mobiles of the mid to late 70's. -Ovaltine Love them pics! Gee I miss those full size two doors. My last one was a charcoal grey "77 LTD II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Outside of Ford fans I don't think anyone would remember these names. That could be a good thing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) Love them pics! Gee I miss those full size two doors. My last one was a charcoal grey "77 LTD II. "EL-TEE-DEE" :banvictory: I think I do miss the LTD nameplate. I have fond memories of old ones growing up. I loved my former 1978 LTD II with the two tone jade green and sports touring package. My dad bought a 1971 LTD Brougham brand new and I remember liking that car very much. A friend of the family had a 1969 Ford XL hardtop that was nice. My sister had a 1985 LTD she drove through college. The 1985 LTD Sport with the 5.0 was a hot car that had potential as a sports sedan to be a four door Mustang companion. The Australians had an interesting LTD & Landau based on the Falcon/Fairlane in the early 70's. I particularly liked the convertible model. Those LTD's had a front end styled like the US big Ford's and they were quite handsome in a more compact size. I have developed a depper interest in late 60's & early 70's Ford's which includes the Tbird, Torino and LTD. I like the full-sized LTD convertible, fastback Torinos and Montegos. I also like the Cougar of that era. I wonder if there is a problem with people expecting the Taurus to be more of a competitor to the Accord and Camry than an Avalon or Lexus... The Thunderbird fronts I chopped on the 427 Concept are clearly inspired by those early 70's Fords. Edited October 12, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) Problem with calling the Fusion the Taurus is because Taurus was or is a damaged brand. Remember it really didn't work out after 2001 or so. You're right that Taurus is a mid-size name -- but it also is a car that largely equals value and quality, not sportiness. Why bother using Mazda's sporty hardpoints if name it Taurus? Fusion captures that sportiness. Lastly: You're in your mid-40s. You'd never buy a Crown Vic. I'm in my early 20's. I'd never buy a Taurus. (I'd buy a T-Bird though -- damn what a sweet ride) Edited October 12, 2007 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I don't deny that. The Five Hundred was an extremely mediocre automobile with a mediocre engine. It had about as much pizazz as Al Gore. The Taurus changed that. What the ?? Five Hundred was a great vehicle with a semi-okay engine. Diamond in the rough that moved slow. Taurus improved on Five Hundred, but it's not like the five hundred improvements put on the Taurus made it into a spectacularly changed vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danup Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Cars get bigger; the gen-1/2 Taurus was smaller than the gen-3/4 Taurus, and the gen-5 Taurus probably would have been bigger even if it hadn't started off as a different car. 1986 Accord -- 179 inches long/102 inch wheelbase 1990 Accord -- 184/107 2008 Accord -- 194/110 1986 Taurus -- 188/106 1996 Taurus -- 197/108 2008 Taurus -- 201/112 The Fusion is the same size as the old Taurus, but that doesn't mean it's the same size as the original new Taurus (which, if I remember hearing someone on this forum say (Igor?), was in fact the Five Hundred.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 The first thing that pops on my mind when someone mentions the Vic: No...really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) Of course Ford is not smart enough to come up with something to turn the image around with something like the "Crown Victoria's Secret"... Edited October 12, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Of course Ford is not smart enough to come up with something to turn the image around with something like the "Crown Victoria's Secret"... Now thats thinking! I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 the "Crown Victoria's Secret"... Seats with vibrating "magic fingers" option? Settings like "Harley" and "Hummer"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 "EL-TEE-DEE" :banvictory: I think I do miss the LTD nameplate. I have fond memories of old ones growing up. I loved my former 1978 LTD II with the two tone jade green and sports touring package. My dad bought a 1971 LTD Brougham brand new and I remember liking that car very much. A friend of the family had a 1969 Ford XL hardtop that was nice. My sister had a 1985 LTD she drove through college. The 1985 LTD Sport with the 5.0 was a hot car that had potential as a sports sedan to be a four door Mustang companion. The Australians had an interesting LTD & Landau based on the Falcon/Fairlane in the early 70's. I particularly liked the convertible model. Those LTD's had a front end styled like the US big Ford's and they were quite handsome in a more compact size. I have developed a depper interest in late 60's & early 70's Ford's which includes the Tbird, Torino and LTD. I like the full-sized LTD convertible, fastback Torinos and Montegos. I also like the Cougar of that era. I wonder if there is a problem with people expecting the Taurus to be more of a competitor to the Accord and Camry than an Avalon or Lexus... The Thunderbird fronts I chopped on the 427 Concept are clearly inspired by those early 70's Fords. Those Thunderbird chops look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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