New Tundra Heavy Duty at SEMA

[CivicDuty2007]

LINK

 

 

 

 

If Toyota builds this, look out..............

 

One thing you gotta wonder about though: "How strong is the FRAME on this one??[/i]

[rmc523]

LINK

If Toyota builds this, look out..............

 

One thing you gotta wonder about though: "How strong is the FRAME on this one??[/i]

 

The page was taken down, but if it's the same one I'm thinking of, IIRC, I believe it was just a regular Tundra with an extra set of wheels.

[CivicDuty2007]

The page was taken down, but if it's the same one I'm thinking of, IIRC, I believe it was just a regular Tundra with an extra set of wheels.

LINK

 

Got it here this time...................sorry for the tech glitch.

 

Just read in the actual magazine that Toyota may consider putting it into production, all depends on consumer input!! If so, that will be interesting.....................

[7Mary3]

That truck is actually a cobbled together prototype. The Hino diesel in it is so long that they had to cut a hole in the dash to get it in. The HVAC controls are fakes, that valve cover is about 1.5" behind the surface of the dash. But, you can bet IF Toyota did build a heavy duty pickup, it would be a contender. It isn't like they don't know anything about large trucks:

 

http://www.hino.com/

 

Remember when Ford was a contender in big trucks?

[F250]

That truck is actually a cobbled together prototype. The Hino diesel in it is so long that they had to cut a hole in the dash to get it in. The HVAC controls are fakes, that valve cover is about 1.5" behind the surface of the dash. But, you can bet IF Toyota did build a heavy duty pickup, it would be a contender. It isn't like they don't know anything about large trucks:

 

http://www.hino.com/

 

Remember when Ford was a contender in big trucks?

 

Still are:

Fleet Ford LINK

[rmc523]

LINK

 

Got it here this time...................sorry for the tech glitch.

 

Just read in the actual magazine that Toyota may consider putting it into production, all depends on consumer input!! If so, that will be interesting.....................

 

That interior is hideous (well, the whole truck is, but....), the normal Tundra taillights look ridiculous on the dually widened rear (which continues the fender flares to the rear of the vehicle, yuck)...it's just downright ugly, and knowing people, just because it has a Toyota emblem on it, they'd buy it.

[twintornados]

That interior is hideous (well, the whole truck is, but....), the normal Tundra taillights look ridiculous on the dually widened rear (which continues the fender flares to the rear of the vehicle, yuck)...it's just downright ugly, and knowing people, just because it has a Toyota emblem on it, they'd buy it.

My guess would be if Toyota built that behemoth....the would sell 10-15K or them annually.

[rmc523]

My guess would be if Toyota built that behemoth....the would sell 10-15K or them annually.

 

Well, the same company somehow convinced 196,000 people to buy an inferior Tundra last year.

[twintornados]

Well, the same company somehow convinced 196,000 people to buy an inferior Tundra last year.

Which was about 5K short of their own expectations of that POS....trust me, the Tundra HD will be bought by the Toyota faithful, not people that buy F-350's or 3500HD's....

[MERKURXR4Ti]

Wasn't that Hino engine grossly underpowered compared to the PSD, Cummins, and DuraMaxx engines? I'm sure it's a good motor, but poor numbers can't help.

[sprtch06]

If anyone looks at class 4 and up truck sales, Hino isn't setting the world on fire. In that world there are no slick ad campaigns only uptime, cost per mile,and serviceability. with an 8 liter under that hood it would be a nightmare to work on. Their trucks weren't selling in the US until they put an American drivetrain in them.

[rmc523]

Which was about 5K short of their own expectations of that POS....trust me, the Tundra HD will be bought by the Toyota faithful, not people that buy F-350's or 3500HD's....

 

I'm sure you're right, I'm just saying Toyota has it's ways......

 

That said, I'd think 3/4+ ton truck owners (Super Duty, Silverado HD/2500+, and Ram 2500+) would be even more brand loyal than 1/2 ton owners....just a guess though.

[Automotive Paint]

If I were Ford, whose diesel p/u has not only the worst recent reputation but also the worst fuel economy by far in this era of $4/gallon diesel, I would be scared to death if Toyota showed up on the scene with a diesel especially if it got better fuel economy.

 

IMO Ford's most profitable vehicle is also the most vulnerable at the moment.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Automotive Paint

[NickF1011]

IMO Ford's most profitable vehicle is also the most vulnerable at the moment.

 

Vulnerable to whom? Certainly not this joke from Toyota. GM is their only huge competition in the HD market (to a lesser extent Dodge). I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future, as Ford is working on a new diesel program already to replace the Powerstrokes. Add to that the availability of the 4.4 Lion diesel in the half tons in about 12 months and they seem to be planning things pretty well.

[Michael Reynolds]

If I were Ford, whose diesel p/u has not only the worst recent reputation but also the worst fuel economy by far in this era of $4/gallon diesel, I would be scared to death if Toyota showed up on the scene with a diesel especially if it got better fuel economy.

 

IMO Ford's most profitable vehicle is also the most vulnerable at the moment.

 

Give me a break. Toyota can't even make a tailgate worth mention.....

[phiftywon]

If I were Ford, whose diesel p/u has not only the worst recent reputation but also the worst fuel economy by far in this era of $4/gallon diesel, I would be scared to death if Toyota showed up on the scene with a diesel especially if it got better fuel economy.

 

the only reason toyota gets away with selling the tundra is that a large percentage of people who buy 1/2 tons (myself included) don't do anything that resembles work with their trucks -

HD buyers on the other hand are not messing around - when your livelihood depends on your truck no one is going to gamble their earnings on a supposed HDtruck with no reliability records which will no doubt share components with a truck that presently can't even handle taking an ATV out to the dessert.

[sprtch06]

I'm sure that toyota could sell some HD trucks in this country, but unlike 1/2 ton trucks it better do what they say it will or they'll be sunk. I don't think Toyota dealers could take care of HD customers either. I don't know of many business people will to pay for regular flush jobs. Being in the HD business, if the wheels aren't turning you're not making money. It is well known that a lot of the problems with the p/u diesels in the US are the proliferation of hopup parts. People are making these engines do things they weren't meant to. Compare the reliability of an engine in a pickup versus it truck counterpart. You'll see a difference. My dad has some customers at his shop that are into hot rodding their Powerstrokes. They have both blown their motors at least once. They blame it on Navistar. It never occurs to them that the Navistar trucks they own with the same engineering have never come apart despite working hard everyday. FWIW, if I could build my ideal HD pickup it would Ford's body/chassis with Dodge's Cummins engine and GM's Allison transmission.

[J-150]

FWIW, if I could build my ideal HD pickup it would Ford's body/chassis with Dodge's Cummins engine and GM's Allison transmission.

 

 

I've heard this same desire many, many times.

If Ford could pull off that combo, they would own 80% of the HD market.

[sprtch06]

I've just thought of the positives of a Tundra HD. Today I was working at my Dad's shop when one of his customers,who has an 08 F450 diesel 4x4, used said truck to tow his 35000 to 40000 lb refuse truck to the shop because of transmission problems. I made a comment about using it for a Tundra commercial. This guy and his buddy are the same guys I talked about in my previous post that blew up their Powerstrokes hot rodding them. They both immediatly made a comment about the Tundra and its 8.0 liter engine. They talked about how Toyota said it was capable of 500+ hp. My first thought was a a whole bunch of guys like this buying tundras and hot-rodding them and abusing them thereby filling dealers shops with lots of warranty work. The guys that would by this truck are not going to by Toyota's usual "sophisticated" consumer. This could very well introduce toyota to the American redneck.

[Bob Rosadini]

This truck should scare the hell out of Ford. Its a finger checking the temp of the water. If anyone thinks Hino is not a threat, they don't know what they are talking about. Hino in my book is the new Freightliner of this age. To you "kids" who weren't around when Daimler bought Freightliner, Ford and International OWNED class 7. Freightliner was a bit player in class 8. Look at them today.

 

Hino will make huge inroads in class 6 and 7 aND this little "experiment" at SEMA is the tip of the iceberg. If you think it isn't, you don't understand Toyota's mindset.

 

Oh and don't forget, Roger Penske is getting his beak wet on the Hino deal. Think Roger ever backed a loser? Idiots -make that IDIOTS- at Ford, wake up!

[NickF1011]

This truck should scare the hell out of Ford. Its a finger checking the temp of the water. If anyone thinks Hino is not a threat, they don't know what they are talking about. Hino in my book is the new Freightliner of this age. To you "kids" who weren't around when Daimler bought Freightliner, Ford and International OWNED class 7. Freightliner was a bit player in class 8. Look at them today.

 

Hino will make huge inroads in class 6 and 7 aND this little "experiment" at SEMA is the tip of the iceberg. If you think it isn't, you don't understand Toyota's mindset.

 

Oh and don't forget, Roger Penske is getting his beak wet on the Hino deal. Think Roger ever backed a loser? Idiots -make that IDIOTS- at Ford, wake up!

 

If this was an experiment, it was an experiment horribly gone wrong.

[sprtch06]

This truck should scare the hell out of Ford. Its a finger checking the temp of the water. If anyone thinks Hino is not a threat, they don't know what they are talking about. Hino in my book is the new Freightliner of this age. To you "kids" who weren't around when Daimler bought Freightliner, Ford and International OWNED class 7. Freightliner was a bit player in class 8. Look at them today.

 

Hino will make huge inroads in class 6 and 7 aND this little "experiment" at SEMA is the tip of the iceberg. If you think it isn't, you don't understand Toyota's mindset.

 

Oh and don't forget, Roger Penske is getting his beak wet on the Hino deal. Think Roger ever backed a loser? Idiots -make that IDIOTS- at Ford, wake up!

Freightliner's market share comes from being the cheapest truck in price and quality. Roger Penske is in the leasing business and a cheap source of trucks is a leg up on the competition. I don't foresee Hino passing Navistar in the truck market. They don't have the dealer network that Navistar has for one thing. Selling HD trucks is a whole other world compared to cars. Fleet managers don't fall for slick ad campaigns. The one thing that Hino has done to gain inroads into the market is to drop their captive drivetrain and switch to an American drivetrain. Their dealer network mostly consists of class 7/8 who didn't have a medium duty truck to sale. Ford lost market share because their Lousiville truck was getting to old. By the time they rolled out the new design the writing was on the wall and they didn't have a big enough share of the market.. Freightliner is still selling the Ford Louisville. It's called a Sterling. My Dad has a customer with a Sterling that was built right after the sell. It still has Ford part numbers on all of the parts.

[Bob Rosadini]

If this was an experiment, it was an experiment horribly gone wrong.

Like I said- it was a "finger in the water". Isn't that one of the things SEMA does? Is it a production vehicle? Nope! Does it have a HD motor?- Yes! Is it intendeed to get reaction? You bet.

 

Again, to those who want to stick your heads in the sand? Go ahead. The point is Toyota and Hino can very easily make the jump DOWN from class 6 and 7 and UP from class 1 and 2. Are they not formidable in everything they have done. Let's not rush to judgement on the merits of the current Tundra.

 

I'm as much a Ford guy as ANYONE who posts here. And a stockholder. I myself think they are getting closer and closer to taking another market (commercial trucks) away from Ford- or at least putting a big dent in Fords 50% market share of commercial truicks (class 3-7)

 

And to further scare you, Daimler has created a special marketing group to go after that segment. Once again, Freightliner can take the Business Class down a step or two, The Sprinter canmove upwards, and Sterling with its Dodge derived Bullet is moving quickly into 350-450-550 territory. One scary observation, if you get any of the monthly truck want ad rags, you are seeing more and more Sterling-Ford dealerships advertising Bullets (with its Cummins) as opposed to advertising comparable Fords that they sell. Its not my imagination. If you are not in the trucking business, you won't get those rags in your mailbox. If you do, you will see what I'm talking about.

[Bob Rosadini]

Freightliner's market share comes from being the cheapest truck in price and quality. Roger Penske is in the leasing business and a cheap source of trucks is a leg up on the competition. I don't foresee Hino passing Navistar in the truck market. They don't have the dealer network that Navistar has for one thing. Selling HD trucks is a whole other world compared to cars. Fleet managers don't fall for slick ad campaigns. The one thing that Hino has done to gain inroads into the market is to drop their captive drivetrain and switch to an American drivetrain. Their dealer network mostly consists of class 7/8 who didn't have a medium duty truck to sale. Ford lost market share because their Lousiville truck was getting to old. By the time they rolled out the new design the writing was on the wall and they didn't have a big enough share of the market.. Freightliner is still selling the Ford Louisville. It's called a Sterling. My Dad has a customer with a Sterling that was built right after the sell. It still has Ford part numbers on all of the parts.

 

With all respects- you talk about your .."Dad has a customer who has a Sterling etc." Keep in mind there are some truck people who have been on this site for a long time. Again I say .."truck people" I was signing my name on purchase orders -and occasionally driving them-for Louisvilles before you were born.

 

A couple of points. Freightliner's market share is not because they are the "cheapest truck in price and quality". When Hebe was the president, they bought market share- in particular with huge deals for hundreds even thousands of units-but that is another story. I don't thik that is the case anymore.

 

What is Freightliner- or should I say Daimler? They are aggressive and focused on the business. But that is not what this thread is about. Its about Toyota. And my reference to Hino is that they will be tough because Toyota does not play to lose. Hino is not at this point looking at class 8. They are looking at 6 and 7. Have you talked to anyone who runs Hino's? I'm sure the answer is no. But if you do, you will find they are very satisfied. And once Toyota gets their act together with the Tundra, they will do what is logical- move up the food chain into class 3 and 4 while Hino drops down into 5 etc.

 

Oh and as to your point about Ford losing market share because they had an "old truck", -it was. but they were always a solid 8-10% of class 8 and a solid second in class 7-to Navistar. Ford Spent millions redesigning the Louisville- and then gave it away to Daimler for 300million bucks. Why? Because the likes of Jac Nassar saw bigger bucks in turning KTP into a giant pick up truck plant. The thought of all that volume won out. Keep in mind KTP was the largest heavy truck plant in the world when it opened in 69. Could other plants have been coverted to efficient light truck production? I'm sure they could have. Think about it. It cost millions to redesign the Louisville. the business had to have been studied to death before the decision to go for it wss made. then within a year after it came out (HN-80), the decion is made to give the business away. What changed? Nassar and his short term profit clique were in control.

 

Oh and if you are implying that Roger Penske is backing Hino because he can get "cheap trucks",I think he is a bit smarter then that. "Cheap trucks" won't survive in the commercial world- good trucks will.

[sprtch06]

With all respects- you talk about your .."Dad has a customer who has a Sterling etc." Keep in mind there are some truck people who have been on this site for a long time. Again I say .."truck people" I was signing my name on purchase orders -and occasionally driving them-for Louisvilles before you were born.

 

A couple of points. Freightliner's market share is not because they are the "cheapest truck in price and quality". When Hebe was the president, they bought market share- in particular with huge deals for hundreds even thousands of units-but that is another story. I don't thik that is the case anymore.

 

What is Freightliner- or should I say Daimler? They are aggressive and focused on the business. But that is not what this thread is about. Its about Toyota. And my reference to Hino is that they will be tough because Toyota does not play to lose. Hino is not at this point looking at class 8. They are looking at 6 and 7. Have you talked to anyone who runs Hino's? I'm sure the answer is no. But if you do, you will find they are very satisfied. And once Toyota gets their act together with the Tundra, they will do what is logical- move up the food chain into class 3 and 4 while Hino drops down into 5 etc.

 

Oh and as to your point about Ford losing market share because they had an "old truck", -it was. but they were always a solid 8-10% of class 8 and a solid second in class 7-to Navistar. Ford Spent millions redesigning the Louisville- and then gave it away to Daimler for 300million bucks. Why? Because the likes of Jac Nassar saw bigger bucks in turning KTP into a giant pick up truck plant. The thought of all that volume won out. Keep in mind KTP was the largest heavy truck plant in the world when it opened in 69. Could other plants have been coverted to efficient light truck production? I'm sure they could have. Think about it. It cost millions to redesign the Louisville. the business had to have been studied to death before the decision to go for it wss made. then within a year after it came out (HN-80), the decion is made to give the business away. What changed? Nassar and his short term profit clique were in control.

 

Oh and if you are implying that Roger Penske is backing Hino because he can get "cheap trucks",I think he is a bit smarter then that. "Cheap trucks" won't survive in the commercial world- good trucks will.

My family has been in the trucking business since the end of WW2. I am a 3rd generation technician. I get to judge "quality" on a daily basis. Every brand has their problems and Hino will have theirs when they start getting some mileage on them. I have seen brand new Freightliner trucks with cabs that leak,radiators that leaked, poor fit and finish interiors. from all plants. Just because Roger Penske owns something doesn't mean it is going to sell. Do you remember when he owned Detroit Diesel. A lot of people bought Series 60 engines and a lot of people didn't because they didn't want to support Roger through the back door. I don't think that Hino is going to run over the medium duty market roughshod. Toyota is entering new territory in this country. Class 5,6,7 trucks are a lot different then Camry's and Corolla's. This business has always been driven by innovation. Hino didn't start selling any trucks until they changed over to the North American drive train. People need to drop this "head in the sand" mentality with Toyota. They are staffed by Humans like any other company they do have weakness' JM2C