NickF1011 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 http://wardsauto.com/commentary/ford_ahead_gm/ :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 http://wardsauto.com/commentary/ford_ahead_gm/ :reading: Negetards unite!!!!! This can't stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I'm not too surprised. It's easier to turn around a fullsize SUV than an 18-wheeler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 I'm not too surprised. It's easier to turn around a fullsize SUV than an 18-wheeler. Unless it has Firestone Wilderness AT's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I have been saying this since 2005 - Hate Bill Ford as much as you want, but he fixed the structure of the company to an incredible degree. There were things he simply could not grasp or finish, but he layed an incredibly solid foundation for Alan to work with. Now when people are not so preoccupied with bashing the NA chiefs, the finally take a moment to realize this. Besides - GM started sputtering in the last few quarters - GM was on a solid roll since 2004 or so and worked like a freaking machine improving every quarter - but now there are cracks showing - as if GM is now tired of the progress and wants to take a break from the restructuring. They CAFE whining, their backpedaling on plans, their book keeping mumbo jumbo, and some other factors - not good. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I'm not too surprised. It's easier to turn around a fullsize SUV than an 18-wheeler. "Ford at $174 billion is catching up to GM at $181 billion" An SUV/18 wheeler? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 This is what people miss the most when looking at Ford's balance sheet. They get caught up in their loss - most of which was write-down. Their revenues were up $14 billion! Their actual operatin profits were $5 billion better worldwide than 2006. Their revenue in North America, despite sales in the U.S. being off 13% was UP! That means the money flowing in per car sold was up a large amount. How? Lower rental sales, better Lincoln sales, fewer fire storm rebates. Sound familiar? Bill Ford did a great job with the quality initiatives earlier this decade and starting some of the balance sheet moves to get the company stable, and those combined with the additional focus on balance sheet by LeClair and Mulally, the org work overseen by Mulally, the marketing strength ramping up under Farley as well as the product cadence that is about to begin at Ford, things will start to look a lot different than they did just 1 year ago. For those who have been watching, this is hardly a surprise. I won't say we've left the dark forest yet, but the sunlight is beginning to shine through. But it's safe to say that Ford's biggest risks right now are external - not internal - and that's a vast improvement from just 2 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 (edited) Key point of the article: On the finance side, GMAC pulled the company deep into the red. What this all shows is that even when GM fixes its North American automotive operations, it still has a lot of other work to do. Personally, I believe GM’s design and products are more attractive than Ford’s. And I believe GM is solidly in front when it comes to product technology. But when I stand back and look at how well each auto maker is doing from a business standpoint, there’s no question Ford has edged ahead of GM. Six months ago, I couldn’t say that. It's too bad Ford can't fix this perception problem. The Fiesta, Flex and updated Fusion can't arrive fast enough. The EDGE is solid but probably only has a year or so of "cutting edge" left in it. The Escape and Focus are middling efforts: credible improvements for the most part but lackluster without the shine of SYNC, which expires in a year. Meanwhile Ford has state-of-the art Perfection in the Taurus and X that simply rot on the vine for lack of advertising. Although perhaps that is the price paid for working on the fundamentals first? Maybe that will afford us believers that "fun ride back up" that Mullaly was talking about... *EDIT* Meant that the Edge has a year or so of "fresh" left. Added the FLEX to the upcoming list Edited March 24, 2008 by goingincirclez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 but lackluster without the shine of SYNC, which expires in a year. From what I understand, Ford still has first dibs to all subsequent SYNC upgrades, which means they'll still have an edge with it as a marketing tool well into the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Although perhaps that is the price paid for working on the fundamentals first? Maybe that will afford us believers that "fun ride back up" that Mullaly was talking about... It is my assertion that, the past few years, Ford has paid the price in media coverage, etc. for focusing on the fundamentals. Ford has radically changed their product development processes in NA & Europe, with decidedly positive results. New product launches in both Europe and NA have traced an upward arc in both sales (as a % of segment) and quality. GM hasn't been without successes, however, their dictatorial, top-down development process is only as good as the dictator du jour. Furthermore, the elevation of Fritz Henderson to dauphin status is troubling if only because one thing he failed to do at GM - Europe was control bottom line costs. By contrast, as the article points out, Ford has been much more disciplined overseas. In short, GM is riding they typical Detroit upswing, which seems likely to be followed by the typical Detroit downswing, and if past performance is any indicator, the downs are usually deeper than the ups are high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Furthermore, the elevation of Fritz Henderson to dauphin status is troubling if only because one thing he failed to do at GM - Europe was control bottom line costs. By contrast, as the article points out, Ford has been much more disciplined overseas. In short, GM is riding they typical Detroit upswing, which seems likely to be followed by the typical Detroit downswing, and if past performance is any indicator, the downs are usually deeper than the ups are high. I was more surprised to read that their Brazil operations are so significant and profitable. It seems like all we've heard for years is how China was going to save GM, and is Buick's sole reason for continued being. But then I'm not really a business guy. So then that's far for this latest GM course... just like all their alleged product hits (which are very credible in many areas)... the "facts" are not as rosy as what they would have us believe. It's nice to have someone acknowledge this. Everyone said Ford was simply following GM but I always felt that to be false. Quality still needed to be Job 1 and Ford started there... and you hear relatively little about GM consolidating its operations, despite getting a big jump on Ford. One wonders how much backstepping resulted from canceling the Sigma (or was it Zeta?) program... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Good article. I agree with most points made, especially this one. Personally, I believe GM’s design and products are more attractive than Ford’s. And I believe GM is solidly in front when it comes to product technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Good to see someone is noticing the turnaround Ford is making. All of that hard work is starting to pay off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Good article. I agree with most points made, especially this one. Of course that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Good to see someone is noticing the turnaround Ford is making. All of that hard work is starting to pay off. LOL, love the new attitude, P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 LOL, love the new attitude, P. the end is nigh......I mean nie..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Of course that one. If you disagree, just say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 "Ford at $174 billion is catching up to GM at $181 billion" An SUV/18 wheeler? I don't think so. I'm talking about the relative sizes of each company, not how much they had to make up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Good article. I agree with most points made, especially this one. Personally, I believe GM’s design and products are more attractive than Ford’s. And I believe GM is solidly in front when it comes to product technology. To some extent that's true. But at what expense? GM's quality isn't up to Ford's. What good is the so called advanced technology if it's not reliable? Ford's approach seems a bit more conservative....and not rushed to production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I want to know what that guy means by 'product technology'. At any rate, GM is at the top of its curve. The Lambdas aren't going to get any newer, and the only big things looming on the horizon for GM are the Volt and the Camaro, and neither are going to be volume anything. Also, let's not forget that if FoE had gotten on board the CD3 platform, everyone would be talking about how Ford was right up there with GM on global platform rationalization. As it is, EUCD will go down as the last example of "NIH" in Ford history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 If you disagree, just say so. GM has made a TON of progress when it comes to overall refinement. Look where the company an its products were 2 or 3 years ago, compared to where we are now. Having said that I feel that both companies are running neck and neck, almost reaching and surpassing (in some cases they have) most of their Japanese counterparts. Aside from SYNC, Ford was woefully behind the times when it came to tech. Flat out they didn't have ANYTHING. Lackluster first gen nav units, and nothing in the way of technology at all. And there still is some catch up. Lincolns being sold with out simple things such as adaptive xenon headlights (i.e. MKX) are a clear example. Design? Well that's subjective, I'll just leave that alone. Hybrids. GM's strategy is sort of off base. The two mode full size SUVs are great, but the ancient versions currently found on the Aura and VUE don't cut it. I'm very interested how things pan out over the next few years. Ecoboost, refined CD3s, new tech, the MKS and Flex should give Ford that extra nudge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Even more impressively, once you get out of North America, Ford is a solidly profitable company. Last year, it earned nearly $1 billion in Europe; made more than $1 billion in South America; turned a profit in Asia/Pacific; put its Premium Automotive Group in the black; and while down, its financial operations still made more than $1 billion in profit. The icing on the cake is Mazda now is making good money and Ford gets part of those earnings, as well The difference is GM has used product to achieve it turnaround, Ford is only starting to. Doing all the hard work behind the scense is going to pay off big time for Ford. They are really changing the way they do business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 They are really changing the way they do business. They are really changing the way they do business. Ford is becoming the kind of company that Edsel Ford would have worked towards building, if he had lived long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) GM put a lot of effort into Zeta between 2002-2006 but unfortunately it now really doesn't suit CAFE changes. That's not to say the Commodore/Pontiac G8 isn't a fine car - it just marches to a different tune! GM were at one stage hoping that Zeta would be used in everything from Impalas through to Buick luxury sedans The reality is that only 250K/year will be built once the Camaro comes on line. By comparison, Ford's GRWD will have up to 500K/year in everything from Utes and Falcons to Mustangs, Interceptors and Explorers. That goes to show what a little planning and communication throughout the company can achieve, good design with room to move on individual top hats. And not one of those products has to fight to establish itself in the market. Edited March 25, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Ford's GRWD will have up to 500K/year in everything from Utes and Falcons to Mustangs, Interceptors and Explorers. But in all seriousness, I dont think the Explorer will be on GRWD platform....the new one will be out 2010, much eariler then GRWD will be out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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