"One Ford" Analysis

[blazerdude20]

No you have not eaten your words you are dead right, a couple work colleagues and myself used to drive the RWD Capri in the mid 80's come the 90's you got Hobsons choice from Ford with RWD. So it was the first time in ages l was Fordless we all ended up in Golf GTI's with nothing exciting on offer from Ford, gotta to say l was not one bit impressed the Golf (Rabbit US) it was horrible piece of engineering real awkward and a bit of a nightmare to do any routine maintenance on compared to the Capri which was dead easy the way a well designed car should be, the V6 Cologne just had one sweetest engine sounds around at the time it was low reving and much more relaxing than the Golf on a long straight runs and was well geared for twisty roads you could get it up to 70 MPH in second gear which must have been the most worn cog in transmission, it also shared the same fuel system as the Porsche 911, had Recaro seats & was fitted with a Turbo Technics Garrett turbocharger.

 

Gotta agree with you after owning two Golfs on a trot l found them to be over-hyped up rubbish with a build quality that was no better than Fords as the Capri was build by Germans as well, spare parts were very expensive, no fun to own compared to Ford, and hard to work on and live with. When l sold my 2nd Golf l vowed to myself never to buy another VW ever again as long as l live they are are over hyped up bullshit.

 

You are dead right about what you said about VW. JD Power survey can be good indicator but some of the owners believe and the hype companies spill out Skoda being one of them they are at No 2 in Europe and owned by VW, l have hired the Fabia & Felica whilst on holidays in the past and they were dreadful compared to Fords, Ford owners might be more critical of cars in these JD power surveys.

 

Skoda owners might be more pleased with the VW/Audi at cheap price they got, but they were both just God damm aweful apart from the engines l could just not live with a Skoda just how did make it to No2 in Europe, l know Skoda owners who burn through clutches in under 18,000 miles and think they are wonderful, and others with Ford & Pug diesels that have over 150,000 miles on the clock that are still on their first clutch and they never stop picking holes in their cars.

 

VW's Skoda at No2 just shows to me how JD Powers surveys are so flawed because Skoda has improved one hell of a lot but they are still rubbish apart from their engines.

 

for some reason i saw the chart and thought quality not satisfaction. i've never even heard of skoda before

[Ford Jellymoulds]

i've never even heard of skoda before

 

Your lucky then, you've not missed much LOL.

 

Our JD Power survey has 8 sections massed together to give one result known as the satisafaction survey.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report...&EL=3243778

[Deanh]

Your lucky then, you've not missed much LOL.

 

Our JD Power survey has 8 sections massed together to give one result known as the satisafaction survey.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report...&EL=3243778

I see its also partially based on the "dealer experience"....eeeeek....

[Edstock]

for some reason i saw the chart and thought quality not satisfaction. i've never even heard of skoda before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Škoda_Auto

 

Started in 1894, bought by VW in 1991

 

Then there's Skoda Works, founded in 1859

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Škoda_Works

 

They build buses, railroad cars. Used to build tanks and artillery.

 

Up until the advent of Communism, Czech engineering was as good as any, with traditions to match the Germans. In WW2, the Germans took a Skoda K-38 medium tank and put a new turretless body on it, along with the long-barrel 75mm piece from the Panther. It was a nasty little piece, and we were very lucky that they never built very many, because the gang just had to have King Tigers. Officially a Jagdpanzer 38, it was called a "Hetzer".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdpanzer_38(t)

 

 

The soldier in the background shows just how small the Hetzer is. The 60° sloped armor made it hard to kill, and the 75mm piece could take out a Sherman at 1,000 yards, side-shot.

[F250]

Volkswagen is a company that makes and sales only Euro-spec vehicles in the states...how successful have they been here again? Industry trailing quality and low sales...just something to keep in mind when looking forward to this future of Euro Fords. I'm very cautious, I strongly believe that vehicles need to be designed and built for the market they sell to so I'm curious to see what happens with these products.

 

Agreed!

[theoldwizard]

Volkswagen is a company that makes and sales only Euro-spec vehicles in the states...how successful have they been here again? Industry trailing quality and low sales...just something to keep in mind when looking forward to this future of Euro Fords. I'm very cautious, I strongly believe that vehicles need to be designed and built for the market they sell to so I'm curious to see what happens with these products.

Agreed!

I guess you guys are writing off Ford because only medium/large CUV, SUV and pickups will be designed in the US. While this used to be a significant percentage of the Ford US fleet, I see it only making up about 33% in the future.

 

Hmm ... come August (after the Reaper is done), I wonder what the ratio of EU based engineers to American based engineers will be ?????

[RichardJensen]

only medium/large CUV, SUV and pickups will be designed in the US

Well design is such a vague term. There really isn't any issue with a platform being engineered in Europe or the US for that matter.

 

However, I don't think it's wise to simply take a one-size-fits-all approach to content and styling.

 

I mean if "one Ford" would've arrived five years sooner, we'd've got stuck with the ungainly and awkward S-Max instead of the Edge, and I don't think the I-5 only S-Max with its 220 hp and strange face would've gone over very well.

[F250]

Agreed!

 

I guess you guys are writing off Ford because only medium/large CUV, SUV and pickups will be designed in the US. While this used to be a significant percentage of the Ford US fleet, I see it only making up about 33% in the future.

 

Hmm ... come August (after the Reaper is done), I wonder what the ratio of EU based engineers to American based engineers will be ?????

 

Yea, getting a little tired of Ford's retreat. First we had the "Way Forward" then the "Accelerated Way Forward" then the "Transformation Plan" now the latest and greatest "Accelerated Transformation Plan." I understand cutting the fat but Ford is cutting muscle to the point they will not be able to effectively launch new products on time.

 

This "One Ford" crap is just marketing spin for "we fired everyone around here so we"ll just bring over existing cars from Europe." Ford took big bucks from North American operations for years and dumped it into Euroloosers like Jag if they would have invested that money into Ford, Lincoln and Mercury here we wouldn't be in this situation now.

 

This is just a quick and dirty way to get small cars to market here ASAP and it looks like Mulally's plan has no long term investment to rebuild American operation's for the long run so I ain't impressed.

[silvrsvt]

This is just a quick and dirty way to get small cars to market here ASAP and it looks like Mulally's plan has no long term investment to rebuild American operation's for the long run so I ain't impressed.

 

Whats the point in repeating operations though out the world doing the same thing 2-3x over and wasting money?

[F250]

Whats the point in repeating operations though out the world doing the same thing 2-3x over and wasting money?

 

Because all the previous EuroFords like the Merkurs and Contours fell on their ass in the American market.

This is not a new idea, the first generation '70s Capri and later Fiesta that Ford brought here from Europe because they were very successful there netted low sales in America. Those cars couldn't even come close to the competitive Ford models of the '70's the Mustang II and Pinto for sales even during that era's fuel crisis and bad economy.

 

EuroFords. Everybody askes for them and when they get here nobody buys them.

Edited July 26, 2008 by F250

[ehaase]

I mean if "one Ford" would've arrived five years sooner, we'd've got stuck with the ungainly and awkward S-Max instead of the Edge, and I don't think the I-5 only S-Max with its 220 hp and strange face would've gone over very well.

How would a 250 hp Ecoboost 2.5L S-Max do?

 

I think we will see a substantial reduction in the number of V6 engines sold in the U.S. by 2015.

[jpd80]

How would a 250 hp Ecoboost 2.5L S-Max do?

 

I think we will see a substantial reduction in the number of V6 engines sold in the U.S. by 2015.

You can see that Ford has a future Ecoboost or diesel replacemet in store for every NA engine.

Something like this:

- 2.0 and 2.5 EB engines will replace all NA V6s

- 3.0 and 3.5 EB V6 will replace the 5.0 and 5.4 V8s.

- 4.6 EB V8 replaces 6.2 V8

 

Not to mention the diesel engines with huge torque that arrive in the near future.

The Mondeo is about to receive the PSA 2.2 litre I-4 Turbo Diesel with 300 lbft of torque.

The new F150 4.4 V8 diesel with over 450 lb of torque will make the 6.8 V10 just look stupid.

Edited July 26, 2008 by jpd80

[fbmphil]

This is just a quick and dirty way to get small cars to market here ASAP and it looks like Mulally's plan has no long term investment to rebuild American operation's for the long run so I ain't impressed.

 

Actually, that's the whole point of it. Return to profitability then regrow from there.

[RichardJensen]

Everybody askes for them and when they get here nobody buys them.

BUT, the difference this time (so they say) is that they aren't going to be 'Euro Fords'. The 2011 Focus is being designed in Dearborn. The idea is that these cars are not going to appear 'foreign' (as in the Merkur) nor are they going to be priced sky high with little to no passenger room (Contour/Mystique).

 

As long as Ford doesn't go all VW with their lineup (crappy reliability, excessively priced, and full of strange features that US people don't particularly want--e.g. the in door umbrella holder or the 'it's not a key, but you still have to use it just like a key' ignition system), they should be in good shape.

[RichardJensen]

I believe the division of labor is along these lines:

 

Compact Truck: Australia

Truck: North America

Passenger Car Chassis: Europe

Gasoline Powertrains: North America

Small diesels: Europe

Big diesels: North America

Advanced Styling: Europe

Production Styling: North America

 

With RWD being something of an open question at this time....

[mlhm5]

Agreed!

 

Yeah, leave those 7 speed duel clutch trannys and twin charged engines in Europe along with those high mileage diesels. Don't forget not to bring in any "B" cars and while you are at it, leave all those crappy designs there too.

 

Americans like their cars and don't want some Euro-tarted up Focus.

 

LOL

[silvrsvt]

Because all the previous EuroFords like the Merkurs and Contours fell on their ass in the American market.

 

But the point your missing is that the newer cars will be tailored for the market, I dont think anyone is expecting the same exact car as what is sold in Europe to sell in the States. There will be regional changes done for them...not to mention Europe is moving closer to American tastes in size of cars vs being stuck in a small ass car. The Focus was a pretty successful car that came over from Europe, even though it was launched horribly and decontented to hell

 

Plus the point I was making is that there is no need to have say 2 full teams of CD sized car engineers working on the same type car. You split the teams down the middle or pick and choose who you want to design the car and make sure part of the team is from each region the car is sold in so they can put in what would work in that market vs other ones within reason.

[dunebuster]

I believe the division of labor is along these lines:

 

Compact Truck: Australia

Truck: North America

Passenger Car Chassis: Europe

Gasoline Powertrains: North America

Small diesels: Europe

Big diesels: North America

Advanced Styling: Europe

Production Styling: North America

 

With RWD being something of an open question at this time....

 

 

So Mazda gets cut out of the design pie, and I hope customization means the local market maintains interior trim/feature cues like wiper and headlight controls. I mean, do you want some cars with a left side stalk for headlamps while others have the traditional knob set on the dash, or different functioning wiper stalks, some you swing the stalk up or down to active wiper speeds while others have the rotating knob... The different design language imports used was part of the reason that they didn't sell well. They were just different vehicles plugged into the NA sales outlets..

[RichardJensen]

So Mazda gets cut out of the design pie, and I hope customization means the local market maintains interior trim/feature cues like wiper and headlight controls. I mean, do you want some cars with a left side stalk for headlamps while others have the traditional knob set on the dash, or different functioning wiper stalks, some you swing the stalk up or down to active wiper speeds while others have the rotating knob... The different design language imports used was part of the reason that they didn't sell well. They were just different vehicles plugged into the NA sales outlets..

Nah. Mazda gets its own design staff, etc. They'll continue to run pretty independently of Ford, and will contribute engineering resources as needed. For instance, under the previous 'cooperative' global engineering structure (cooperation between 'silos'), Mazda was a part of C1, CD3, and led on B2 (the new Fiesta/Mazda2), but was not part of EUCD, D3, etc.

 

Also, I want Ford to standardize globally on headlamp switches, wiper stalks, turn signals, power window switches, door locks, etc. There are rather substantial incremental savings to be had here--without compromising quality.

 

I also want Ford to standardize on the back side of their IP assemblies (a globally uniform tachometer unit etc.) with these assemblies being modular to allow for more flexible design than current practice at Ford NA.

 

HVAC controls should be standardized (using the new Fiesta's design, IMO), radio controls, etc.

 

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Ford needs to adopt a 'ground up' attitude toward component sharing, with differentiation done to such things as sheetmetal stampings which will require separate NA/EU tooling.

 

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Also, Ford needs to get EU engineers rotating through the superior VR labs in Dearborn--or equip Cologne with similar facilities. Ford's modeling facilities in NA are fantastic, and should be made a significant part of global PD.

[RichardJensen]

Oh, and EU needs to adopt NA mfg. and QC methods, but that's Joe Hinrichs' job, and he's on it.

 

Ford's QC methods in NA are superb. Just look at the near total absence of recalls for NA product, and the dramatic improvement in Ford quality ratings over the last four years.

[630land]

The Contour was cheapened and was finally introduced when Asian compacts started growing and offering more room for same prices. Not simply because it was Euro roots. Also, the 70's Capri was a hit, it was the currancy exchange rates that killed import of it and replacement by Fox Capri.