mnm Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) gee sorry. i guess a few of us get a little touchy when our careers and how we support our families is on the brink of collapse, and you think we're just getting our panties in a bunch for calling it BS. but its ok because you think its funny. ok, dick. Edited December 11, 2008 by mnm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I just do not get it. If GM or Chrysler file bankruptcy, why can not ford just make more car and truck to fill the share left by GM or chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) I just do not get it. If GM or Chrysler file bankruptcy, why can not ford just make more car and truck to fill the share left by GM or chrysler. Good GAWD,,, 1st. post and this is what the majority of ****s in America think. Edited December 11, 2008 by Critic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnm Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I just do not get it. If GM or Chrysler file bankruptcy, why can not ford just make more car and truck to fill the share left by GM or chrysler. Suppliers. many of them supply all 3 domestics. you take 2/3 of their business away, they dont survive. thus ford cant get the parts they need to keep building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Suppliers. many of them supply all 3 domestics. you take 2/3 of their business away, they dont survive. thus ford cant get the parts they need to keep building. MOST are operating now on such razor thin margin's of profit, you remove less than 1/3 and they go under. Think this all the way thru, it's not just Ford who basically just assembles a vehicle today, it's the 1000's of company's that supply them. Watch the screeching halt to the economy if just one comes to an abrupt stop. then the Domino effect hits full force. (Pray I'm wrong on that, but so close it's too scary). And when one goes under, do you think a GM person or even someone that bought a Chrysler will just switch to Ford and their volume increases by 200%? NO. those people will just totally give it up (IF they are still employed) and say to hell with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Suppliers. many of them supply all 3 domestics. you take 2/3 of their business away, they dont survive. thus ford cant get the parts they need to keep building. But, it is just bankruptcy file, GM and chrysler still make car. They still pay the suppliers. During this period, the suppliers should be able to re-structure to fit the market demonding. So ultimately, Ford should benefit from this change. I believe that GM and Ford will survive finally. They have great product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 NO. those people will just totally give it up (IF they are still employed) and say to hell with it. And even more like myself will not buy a car made in Tennessee, Alabama, or any other state that has senators that are opposing this plan..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 But, it is just bankruptcy file, GM and chrysler still make car. They still pay the suppliers. During this period, the suppliers should be able to re-structure to fit the market demonding. So ultimately, Ford should benefit from this change. I believe that GM and Ford will survive finally. They have great product. Compare with 2007, the whole auto sale has been down more than 20%. That was more than a Chrysler entire production in 2007. But the supplier still survived this year. So if we loss one of big three, the other two just rebounce their production level to 2007, then the suppliers will keep float. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 ----eventually----- yes. However, there would be a severe short term cash squeeze that a lot of these suppliers wouldn't be able to manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Martin Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Even if the bailout passes, unless the banks start lending money, who would be able to buy the cars?? GM and Chrysler along with Ford have to deal with financing vehicles, yet most people can't qualify for the loans at this time. So the bailout won't really help until the banks, who got plenty of bailout money, start living up to their words and loosen the credit market to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Even if the bailout passes, unless the banks start lending money, who would be able to buy the cars?? GM and Chrysler along with Ford have to deal with financing vehicles, yet most people can't qualify for the loans at this time. So the bailout won't really help until the banks, who got plenty of bailout money, start living up to their words and loosen the credit market to the public. Not sure how many dealers we need to post here on this subject: Ford Motor Credit hasn't changed its lending standards. Still plenty of loans to be had. Of course, things aren't as rosy at GM and Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I figure the "bailout" will go through but not untill more PORK is added. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/ap_on_...jEN1w4YCVEDW7oF WASHINGTON – If the $14 billion bailout plan for U.S. automakers passes, it will help more than just Ford, Chrysler and General Motors. Federal judges would get a pay raise, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Even if the bailout passes, unless the banks start lending money, who would be able to buy the cars?? GM and Chrysler along with Ford have to deal with financing vehicles, yet most people can't qualify for the loans at this time. So the bailout won't really help until the banks, who got plenty of bailout money, start living up to their words and loosen the credit market to the public. What about the "Auto Bank". Ford credit is going to have a bank. The government should bailout the auto bank. Auto bank then can finance the customers who want to buy cars or trucks. Then the whole car flow can recirculated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 No. Customers that =can= buy don't want to right now. And the number of buyers that can buy new has also shrunk. You can't push a rope up hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 No. Customers that =can= buy don't want to right now. And the number of buyers that can buy new has also shrunk. You can't push a rope up hill. Exactly... The only way I'll get to buy a brand new car. I mean "NEW" with 10 miles or less on the odometer is if I win the lottery! Otherwise, I'll have to roll the dice and buy (finance) a late model used car and that's a road I really don't want to travel unless I find the right vehicle at the right price for the right need at the right time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 If it passes the car czar CANNOT be J welch!!!! He hates unions.... nor can it be Romney.... appointing them would be like appointing Walter Reutheur. Appoint a judge instead to oversee the concessions on all sides. and yes we are gonna have concessions in pay,benefits and the retirees will take a cut in pay and a big cut in insurance. Like it or not it will happen or it will be a bankruptcy and then we will get railroaded big time and there will be NO retiree insurance and pensions will be cut as bank. judges always cut that first. Afterall if the company cannot make a profit then there is no need for it to be a company. I expect the workers will get a pay package like Toyota has with a 401K also. $23-25 an hour with bigger copays and NO JSP at all..... We have no choice a bankruptcy will be far worse and will cut our pay alot more.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) What has been not covered as much is when Chrysler and more so if GM goes down and they will take suppliers with them, it isn't just Ford that will be hurt, Mitsubishi will most likely be forced to close the plant in Ill, which has already been loosing 100million a year. Toyota and Honda have both said the supplier base collapse will negatively effect them in very fast manner (they make 70%+ of their profit in NA). Nissan is Hurting -- you don't pull out of the Detroit and Chicago auto shows and have dealers be do your show at 2 major auto shows unless you hurting, Nissan sales have been worse than the industry (down 42% in Nov) and it looks of late they have been rental fleet dumping Altimas, Rogues and Sentra's at the rental car lots. Nissan is in very rough shape. The only thing that I can see is if they let them both go -- The Government steps in immidately basically nationalizes GM and Chrysler in Bankruptcy merges the companies and kills brands (GMC, Pontiac, Hummer, Saab, Dodge, Chrysler) and pay the suppliers to keep them from failing. Edited December 11, 2008 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forddaughter Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/11...n-auto-bailout/ Tax credit for American Cars! :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/11...n-auto-bailout/ Tax credit for American Cars! :happy feet: Don't jump the gun on that one. It's only a proposed amendment. I like the other amendment listed above it: Corker's proposal calls for the federal government to give loans to the auto companies with a provision that General Motors and Chrysler debt must be cut by two-thirds by March 15 or they must file for bankruptcy. Two-thirds??? In 3 months??? Why not just force them to file for bankruptcy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Two-thirds??? In 3 months??? Why not just force them to file for bankruptcy now. I think that's the idea :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I think that's the idea :shades: Then why even support giving them money in the first place? Politicians don't make a lick of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Politicians don't make a lick of sense. Now if only the general public could figure that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) No. Customers that =can= buy don't want to right now. And the number of buyers that can buy new has also shrunk. You can't push a rope up hill. The only reason a lot of people were able to buy a brand-new vehicle - as opposed to a used one - over the past 5-6 years is because banks and other financial institutions were lending money to anyone with a pulse. Which is part of what got us into this mess in the first place. In addition to the housing bubble, we've had the new-car market bubble, and both are in the process of contracting. Bailing out GM and Chrysler isn't going to change that - or ensure that they can survive in a greatly contracted market. If anything, by allowing them to avoid a painful, but necessary, restructuring, this bailout only prolongs the inevitable. Edited December 11, 2008 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Now if only the general public could figure that out. Goes back to what I observed during the election: Congress had an approval rating of around 18% at the time of the '08 election. So what does that disapproving public do? They re-elect 90% of the people who are running for Congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Goes back to what I observed during the election: Congress had an approval rating of around 18% at the time of the '08 election. So what does that disapproving public do? They re-elect 90% of the people who are running for Congress. Thats because of the "my senator is great its all the other ones who suck" mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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