FordBuyer Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 ...and they don't and won't buy Mustangs anyways. I certainly wouldn't mind if it shed a few pounds, but it's not like the current Mustang is a bloated overweight whale. The new Porsche 911 being shown at L.A. Auto Show is about 125 pounds lighter using carbon fiber parts. So I would be surprised if new Mustang loses much more weight than Porsche. Maybe a few pounds more, but that would be it. It's difficult putting these vehicles on diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 ...and they don't and won't buy Mustangs anyways. I certainly wouldn't mind if it shed a few pounds, but it's not like the current Mustang is a bloated overweight whale. If the Mustang would lose weight, add IRS, and update the inside, I think many of the C class and 3/5 series people would give it a hard look. And we all know that the new Mustang will have all of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If the Mustang would lose weight, add IRS, and update the inside, I think many of the C class and 3/5 series people would give it a hard look. And we all know that the new Mustang will have all of the above. But remember, Ford always has a lower price point it has to meet whenever it plans a new Mustang, something BMW doesn't have to worry about as much. That is always a challenge. How does Mustang perform like BMW M 3 Series and sticker for many thousands less? How much complexity can we add to the suspension and how much of an upgrade can we do to the interior and still meet that price point which is always important in keeping the Mustang affordable to our core customer base. Can we use carbon fiber parts to lighten the Mustang and remain at our price point? The Mustang is not a $60,000 BMW M or $85,000 base Porsche 911. They can use carbon fiber liberally throughout and get away with it cost wise. Can we stick in a PDK like trans with launch control and still keep the Mustang affordable? Ford will have to cut corners to meet its lower price point. It really comes down to where does Ford cut corners? Interior? Drivetrain? Suspension? Brakes? Content? Ford can kind of go crazy with the special Mustangs it builds, but not the base Mustang V6 and GT that sell in far higher numbers and hopefully keep one shift busy all year. Ford always has quite a balancing act to follow when contemplating a new Mustang. You can see where GM cut corners on the Camaro to meet price point....crappy interior and cheap looking, dated dashboard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 But remember, Ford always has a lower price point it has to meet whenever it plans a new Mustang, something BMW doesn't have to worry about as much. That is always a challenge. How does Mustang perform like BMW M 3 Series and sticker for many thousands less? Perhaps a better question is how does the BMW 3 series command a much higher sticker price? Answer: Buyer perception of the 3 series a superior product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Perhaps a better question is how does the BMW 3 series command a much higher sticker price? Answer: Buyer perception of the 3 series a superior product. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE8PiGmSC8I Most of the Auto TV Top Gear 5th Gear shows seem to rate the new BMW 1 Series tops by awarding their "Best Drivers Car" award here so l guess thats why they can command the higher premium prices, its a shame Big Al does not get his butt on BMW M1 seat then we might start getting some fun cars from Ford in Europe that can steer from the rear and go faster though corners than the underpowered understeering FWD crap. European Market leader Ford had the Cortina/Taunus sitting at the top of the European sales chart for nearly all its life, they decided to change and emulate VW FWD and fell from grace today they are number 5 with no Ford car sitting on the No1 spot in Europe. Ford's Mondeo lingers way down the European sales chart never ever ever makes the top 10. This is not supposed to happen quality auto makers outselling mass produced auto makers cars? it never happened in the past. 9 months of European Sales 2011 Mercedes Benz C Class 126,347 BMW 3 Series 123,390 BMW 5 Series 106,112 Mercedes Benz E Class 96,969 BMW 1 Series 95,909 Ford Mondeo (Very exclusive sales winning car) 58,972 RWD Cortina without Taunus sales added used to sell 55,000 just in the UK in 1 month (August normally), when it takes the mundane Mondeo 9 months in whole of Europe to reach 58,553. We need a smaller nice fun to drive modern type Cortina RWD car from Ford like a RWD BMW 1 Series M1 that would propel Ford back to the top spot again and lift the European Economy back out of the doldrums by putting the fun back into motoring with a new RWD fun drivers car again, nobody gets out of bed to work for a mundane Mondeo, l would rather join the 1.3 million RWD cyclists who have dumped their 4 wheels vehicles for 2 in the UK thats much more fun. Mmmm if only the RWD Ford Cortina/Taunus was around today with something smaller like the BMW M1, Ford would be No1 in Europe again sales/profits would be booming European would be out of control again with shitloads of money in the Ford bank account. MMMmm maybe not? they would waste the Cortina profits on buying up shit like J/LR, Volvo, Aston Martin etc again then sell it all off again to prop up the Mondeo shit sales in Europe. BMW v Old Skool Mustang, give me a Mustang every time, or maybe a new BMW M1 Series type of RWD Cortina. Edited November 12, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Most of the Auto TV Top Gear 5th Gear shows seem to rate the new BMW 1 Series tops by awarding their "Best Drivers Car" award here so l guess thats why they can command the higher premium prices, its a shame Big Al does not get his butt on BMW M1 seat then we might start getting some fun cars from Ford in Europe that can steer from the rear and go faster though corners than the underpowered understeering FWD crap. Two things, 1) I was responding to Fordbuyers question about the 3 series Vs Mustang in the US market, not European 2) FJM, you have to let go of the past, Cortinas, Capris and Escorts are not coming back ever... the biggest sellers in Europe are tiny FWD cars FJM because your fuel is so heavily taxed, mostly by incompetent governments that couldn't run a meat tray raffle down the pub... Edited November 12, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) First off, if this were my project to manage (which it isn't), a good target weight would be marginally lower than that of the current Mustang, if at all. That said, I can't see any major weight savings without the implementation of an expensive front sub-frame (or at least an integral cradle). Any aluminium body structure could only serve a cost effective improvement on the roof. As far as engine packaging goes, the best approach would be to optimize the engine bay for the 5.0L and use integral exhaust manifolds on V6 models to consolidate mounting geometry. Sounds expensive, but really it' just a matter of putting enough thought into less conventional solutions, rather than relying on old-school complacency. The 4 cylinder models can use standard bracing, as they are not performance oriented. Their inherent simplicity [relatively speaking], and smaller footprint would more than offset the extra weight and complexity. An integral rear transaxle [reverse mounted, behind the rear half shafts] would certainly cut down on any added mass from the rear IRS, but only if the entire monocoque could be engineered around a universal casing. Such considerations would obviously have to be taken from initial conceptualization. That said, with proper management, the only perceived costs that would not be offset (across the entire package) would be the requisite torque tube. But even that is debatable given an architecture that's engineered around such a drivetrain. I know all this sounds expensive, but only in a vacuum. Any type of industrial design (including transportation design) involves the careful calculation of cost effective solutions from design to R&D to billet to final assembly. Even shipping considerations, commodity sourcing, and maintenance are taken into account, or at least by someone as obsessive as I am. Any excuse against such developments can only, in my professional opinion, be justified as a result of laziness, complacency, or ignorance. But then again, my work doesn't exactly involve convention. Edited November 13, 2011 by Versa-Tech 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't begin to tell my friends across the pond how they should be designing the next Mustang. For me it's enough to know that Falcon is surviving , developing Ecoboost I-4 and S/C V8 versions, if both cars share parts and reduce costs without compromising designs then that's OK by me. Hidden parts like power trains, electrical systems, maybe front suspension and framing all add up to real savings without significant compromise to any existing designs... Edited November 13, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 ...Sounds expensive, but really it' just a matter of putting enough thought into less conventional solutions, rather than relying on old-school complacency... ...Such considerations would obviously have to be taken from initial conceptualization... quoting just the philosophical parts that anyone (even me) can understand but I'm copying your full post & a link for it to my posterity-textfile TY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joefisco Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Is there any solid info on the V8 EB? Or still just a rumor? I would love to see it in the GT500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If the Mustang would lose weight, add IRS, and update the inside, I think many of the C class and 3/5 series people would give it a hard look. And we all know that the new Mustang will have all of the above. I call absolute BULLSHIT on that! No matter WHAT the milage is, people won't pick a mustang over a prius. No matter WHAT the handling is, people won't pick a mustang over a bmw. No matter WHAT the luxury appointments are, people won't pick a mustang over a mercedes. People who buy priuses are "prius people". They are the enviro-nazi's of the world. The people who drive bmw's are the glove wearing snobs who look down on people who drive "regular cars" like mustangs or camaro's. And don't even waste your time trying to say a mercedes driver would cross shop a mustang if it was "only a little fancier". If you make the mustang a fwd car with really good milage and fancy interior trim...it WON'T SELL! (like the probe) Mustang is what it is. A new mustang should still "be what it is" but more modern. To change the fundamental values of what a mustang is and call it progress? Or to chase a market that it CAN'T compete in because it will not be accepted? It doesn't need an inline six or manual steering to be a mustang. It doesn't need a turbo 4 or IRS to be one either. It's a low cost, EASILY UPGRADED or PERSONALISED, economical in it's "secretary guise" and a beast in it's "boy racer" guise. It is long hood/short deck. It is rwd. It is something for guys with lots of testosterone to compete with. Stop trying to make it fords version of another manufactures car. Ford INVENTED the pony car, they shouldn't now try and make it a "yuppy car or snob car". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Is there any solid info on the V8 EB? Or still just a rumor? I would love to see it in the GT500. V8 EB was scrapped in lieu of 6.7 V8 diesel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I call absolute BULLSHIT on that! No matter WHAT the milage is, people won't pick a mustang over a prius. No matter WHAT the handling is, people won't pick a mustang over a bmw. No matter WHAT the luxury appointments are, people won't pick a mustang over a mercedes. People who buy priuses are "prius people". They are the enviro-nazi's of the world. The people who drive bmw's are the glove wearing snobs who look down on people who drive "regular cars" like mustangs or camaro's. And don't even waste your time trying to say a mercedes driver would cross shop a mustang if it was "only a little fancier". If you make the mustang a fwd car with really good milage and fancy interior trim...it WON'T SELL! (like the probe) Mustang is what it is. A new mustang should still "be what it is" but more modern. To change the fundamental values of what a mustang is and call it progress? Or to chase a market that it CAN'T compete in because it will not be accepted? It doesn't need an inline six or manual steering to be a mustang. It doesn't need a turbo 4 or IRS to be one either. It's a low cost, EASILY UPGRADED or PERSONALISED, economical in it's "secretary guise" and a beast in it's "boy racer" guise. It is long hood/short deck. It is rwd. It is something for guys with lots of testosterone to compete with. Stop trying to make it fords version of another manufactures car. Ford INVENTED the pony car, they shouldn't now try and make it a "yuppy car or snob car". I place my bets that the next Mustang will be after the M3 buyers. I expect it to be smaller, lighter, better balanced, IRS, with an optional I4 EB. The new platforms that Ford has released is based on a European demographics. Time will tell what direction Ford will go.... but if Ford expects to see any type of sells increase with the Mustang, that is the direction it needs to go. One thing for certain... Ford should include additional demographics group because the current demographic buyers are declining.:reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The only problem with that graph is that the economy has been in the shitter since 2008....the numbers have been more or less constant since 1990 till 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The only problem with that graph is that the economy has been in the shitter since 2008....the numbers have been more or less constant since 1990 till 2008. No, no, no...it's proof mustang owners are actually wannabe bmw and mercedes drivers..if the stang was only a "bit more sporty". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 All jokes aside, will Mustang's sales continue to slide in a recovering market? That could spell danger for the coupe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 ...Ford INVENTED the pony car, they shouldn't now try and make it a "yuppy car or snob car". I place my bets that the next Mustang will be after the M3 buyers... dunno if it's just wishful thinking but I can see Fomoco "bracketing" the 3 series with the Mustang and Lincstang re: luxury & features while both can equal the performance with drivetrain options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 All jokes aside, will Mustang's sales continue to slide in a recovering market? That could spell danger for the coupe. Good question, all depends on how well people financially recover from the mess of 2008...we might be seeing a new "normal" in the US if you believe what the news is telling us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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