silvrsvt Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 sorry Silver...I'm going to napalm that...at the time the SVT Focus was released it was about 20k, for that money I personally went and bought a Cooper S... When it was released, the SVT Focus was 19995 there abouts loaded and you could have gotten one D plan for about 17k...how much was your Cooper S? IIRC they start out at 25K or so without all those mods that drive the prices up stupid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 When it was released, the SVT Focus was 19995 there abouts loaded and you could have gotten one D plan for about 17k...how much was your Cooper S? IIRC they start out at 25K or so without all those mods that drive the prices up stupid... SVT's we had were north of 20k, D-plan was not available for Dealership employees yet, there were no incentives, Copper cost me $23k, got 3.79% apr thru US bank. And side by side there was No comparison...I got the S model ( supercharged. 6 speed manual )twin sunroofs, sport package and Harman Karden, I don't beleive ( if memory serves me right ) the Focus was avail with a sunroof or upgraded stereo,,both of which are features i like. Beleive me...I stacked em against each other...in my mind the choice was a no-brainer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 in my mind the choice was a no-brainer.... Obviously... :poke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Obviously... :poke: hey, i don't regret it in the slightest...but I have EXCEPTIONALLY high hopes on a Fiesta hot rod....apparently from what I have read even its standard chassis dynamics are SUPERIOR to the Mini, and if they can find it in their powers to shoehorn 200 hp under the hood of THAT stunner, my beleifs in Fords potential will be restored and I may be a player....and anyone that poo poo's 200 hp thru the front wheels I'm putting approx 215-225 out of mine...and if you are familiar with the properties and tendencies of FWD with that power its FINE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yes, there is a downside to SVT'ing everything: Do you really want to see a $25,000 SVT Fiesta being associated with a $65,000 SVT Mustang GT500KR? It would sort of cheapen the image of the KR in my mind, and in effect cheapen what SVT represents. BMW and Mercedes really don't have this problem with their performance brands. Why? Because even a cheap BMW or Mercedes is perceived to still be pretty darn good. How about two levels then, a la Audi RennSport (S and RS)? You can find an S of any Audi car save for the R8, but only an RS6 and upcoming RS4/RS5 and TTRS. Or, if we mainstream it, we can take VW with their GTI/GLI lines and then the R for the really hot ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgande Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I do believe that any product that does not deliver the goods performance wise will cheapen the SVT nameplate. Thats what killed SRT (IMHO) with Chrysler. On the other end, I don't think that the GT500 KR is a good example of SVT put to good usage. The GT500 yes. The KR...no. The KR cost way too much for what it is. Especially given the Supersnake program, and what's just available in the Ford Racing catalog. The fact that the 2010 GT500 has the same stuff as the old KR (minus the badging) is what further kills it for me. Going from less than 30K to 70k is....dumb. Especially given what you got for it. The KR was the GT500 that should have been built in the first place, and the 2010 models have proven that. So to charge a premium for it...I just don't see the value of it. Granted, their is collectibility for it...but that is based on the actual name. Not the car. If the GT500 was just that without the Shelby name, it wouldn't go for the premiums its going for. I think the SVT name can be used to sell the cars, and sell them well. But care needs to be taken to make sure that they are done right. I don't believe that the Contour and the Focus SVT were executed well. Maybe "ok" for the time, but not like how the Terminators, Lightning, and GT500 were done. Those last 3 vehicles that came out of SVT were done very well. I, for one, was very much interested in the Sports track adren. Explore that never came out. That was looking like one sick truck....I was gonna trade my supercrew for that thing. Ford just needs to make the decision to commit to the concept with a long term strategy, and not something that is executed last minute or with a half ass push to bring something to market to "compete". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mack Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I was more fond of the SVT Thunder pet project. The current SVT team had A LOT to say about that project when I met them. They said Coletti absolutely hated the idea of that thing all along and would not for a second take it seriously as a production vehicle...until he rode in it. I forget the engineer's name, but he said that he, colletti, and 3 other guys went down the strip and ran a sub 15 second time. After that, apparently Coletti loved it... From what they said, the Thunder was actually going to go into a near production phase until Ford started taking some heat about the Excursion and they're image of gas guzzling and unsafe SUVs...after that it got the axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Yes, there is a downside to SVT'ing everything: Do you really want to see a $25,000 SVT Fiesta being associated with a $65,000 SVT Mustang GT500KR? make its a 30k 300hp AWD fiesta and I dont see the issue SVT is an execution over and above the base car, its not about total cost, its about the package. I like the "ST" idea, with SVT being sort of the "overdone" option when it comes to everything else. Edited February 4, 2009 by one2gamble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) make its a 30k 300hp AWD fiesta and I dont see the issue SVT is an execution over and above the base car, its not about total cost, its about the package. I like the "ST" idea, with SVT being sort of the "overdone" option when it comes to everything else. I agree with this approach. Ford could use an ST or Sport (as currently used on Fusion, Edge) for a moderately upgraded model (just powertrain, some cosmetics), and SVT for full-fledged performance machines. That way, theoretically, every model could have it's ST/Sport model, while a few select vehicles would have the SVT treatment. Edited February 4, 2009 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I agree with this approach. Ford could use an ST or Sport (as currently used on Fusion, Edge) for a moderately upgraded model (just powertrain, some cosmetics), and SVT for full-fledged performance machines. That way, theoretically, every model could have it's ST/Sport model, while a few select vehicles would have the SVT treatment. See my post above. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 See my post above. :shades: The Audi one? Yup, just like that. Must've missed it, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 SVT's we had were north of 20k, D-plan was not available for Dealership employees yet, there were no incentives, Copper cost me $23k, got 3.79% apr thru US bank. And side by side there was No comparison...I got the S model ( supercharged. 6 speed manual )twin sunroofs, sport package and Harman Karden, I don't beleive ( if memory serves me right ) the Focus was avail with a sunroof or upgraded stereo,,both of which are features i like. Beleive me...I stacked em against each other...in my mind the choice was a no-brainer.... My 04 SVT Focus has a moon roof and audiophile (IIRC I just woke up) sound system. Acceleration is not bad, But the steering response is unfuckinbeleiveable. Overall a very fun car to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The Audi one? Yup, just like that. Must've missed it, sorry. 'Tis all good. Just means that there are several of us who agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 SVT's we had were north of 20k, D-plan was not available for Dealership employees yet, there were no incentives, Copper cost me $23k, got 3.79% apr thru US bank. And side by side there was No comparison...I got the S model ( supercharged. 6 speed manual )twin sunroofs, sport package and Harman Karden, I don't beleive ( if memory serves me right ) the Focus was avail with a sunroof or upgraded stereo,,both of which are features i like. Beleive me...I stacked em against each other...in my mind the choice was a no-brainer.... I'll dig out my sticker on my SVT Focus when I get home, but there was a sunroof option on it and as for the Radio, I'm fuzzy about it but it did have an upgraded stereo on it but not as nice as the HK unit I'll give you. I got mine A plan with no issues when the car came out..and as for incentives, IIRC they where pretty heavily incentivives on the car about 8 months after launch because they just sat on the lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Interview of SVT Chief Nameplate Engineer Jamal Hameedi http://www.speedsportlife.com/2009/01/07/t...s-svt-division/ It sounds as if Ford N.A. SVT vehicles will continue to be Mustang and a pick up truck. Edited February 4, 2009 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 There is a huge price gap between the M3, and the M6 as well. Different class of car by the same manufacturer. That's why I think an SVT Focus can absolutely find a market with the GT500KR. Yes, there is a big price gap in between an M3 and an M6, but they are both still expensive. No one thumbs their nose at someone driving an M3, even an M6 owner. Did you miss the part about me saying that even a cheap BMW is perceived to be pretty darn good? A Fiesta on the other hand? Even the top-of-the-line Fiesta is still just....a Fiesta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 On the other end, I don't think that the GT500 KR is a good example of SVT put to good usage. The GT500 yes. The KR...no. The KR cost way too much for what it is. Especially given the Supersnake program, and what's just available in the Ford Racing catalog. The fact that the 2010 GT500 has the same stuff as the old KR (minus the badging) is what further kills it for me. Ford and SVT weren't directly involved with the Supersnake program. That was done by Shelby American as an aftermarket exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgande Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Ford and SVT weren't directly involved with the Supersnake program. That was done by Shelby American as an aftermarket exercise. I'm not saying that they were. But I would rather take a stock GT500 and go Level 1 supersnake than opt to buy a KR. There isn't much difference between the two, and I believe that Level 1 SS has more horsepower than the 540 in the KR. The biggest issue with me on the KR is the price. Its just waaay overpriced for my book. If you look at the GT500, vs say a Roush 427, the Roush cost more! So one has to ask what is driving the SVT stang premium price. Is it the Shelby badge or the SVT product? I know dealers would not be gouging all the markup like they did a few years ago on the GT500 if it didn't have the Shelby badge. The argument about charging a premium for SVT for me goes a bit out the window when you look at the fact that they lack product and there are too many gaps in years between availability. No shows like the Explorere Adren. and products that are pulled quickly like the Countor don't help the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'm not saying that they were. But I would rather take a stock GT500 and go Level 1 supersnake than opt to buy a KR. There isn't much difference between the two, and I believe that Level 1 SS has more horsepower than the 540 in the KR. The biggest issue with me on the KR is the price. Its just waaay overpriced for my book. If you look at the GT500, vs say a Roush 427, the Roush cost more! So one has to ask what is driving the SVT stang premium price. Is it the Shelby badge or the SVT product? I know dealers would not be gouging all the markup like they did a few years ago on the GT500 if it didn't have the Shelby badge. The argument about charging a premium for SVT for me goes a bit out the window when you look at the fact that they lack product and there are too many gaps in years between availability. No shows like the Explorere Adren. and products that are pulled quickly like the Countor don't help the cause. I agree to some extent. For one thing, there would be a SportTrac Adrenalin in my driveway right now if they followed through with that concept. Bit too late for that one now though. I would love to see something like a V6 EcoBoost/6-speed AWD Fusion in the SVT lineup also. I just doubt SVT has the resources to pull something like that off right now though, and I can live with that. I'd rather see the entire company be healthy than to see them dumping money into micro-niche products that don't stand much of a chance to make back the cost of their development. I also kind of agree on the KR situation. But then again, it's sort of similar to what happened when the 96' and '03 Cobras debuted with more power than the previous Cobra R's did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The argument about charging a premium for SVT for me goes a bit out the window when you look at the fact that they lack product and there are too many gaps in years between availability. Exactly. You can charge a premium for the GT500, but not the SVT nameplate. Therefore, stick with what works, instead of investing a fortune trying to make something that doesn't. Spending a fortune to make SVT 'something' to the general public is a waste of time. The general public, by and large, is much more concerned about Consumer Reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgande Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Exactly. You can charge a premium for the GT500, but not the SVT nameplate. Therefore, stick with what works, instead of investing a fortune trying to make something that doesn't. Spending a fortune to make SVT 'something' to the general public is a waste of time. The general public, by and large, is much more concerned about Consumer Reports. I disagree with that kind of reasoning. Its that kind of reasoning that got Ford into this mess in the first place. If anything is going to become a brand with staying power, it takes a long sighted approach and commitment to it. The SVT badge didn't taint itself. And its not going to come back overnight either. There is no reason Ford couldn't have a public arm like an AMG or something similar that has the swagger to charge the premiums. But it takes time to develop. Just because it can't happen right this second doesn't mean that its impossible. If the company was committed to it, it would happen. The one thing I have seen from Ford is that when the company is committed to something, they can do well with it. However, when the company is NOT committed to something, you end up with a half ass attempt that almost reinforces the notion of why it shouldn't be there. Its like they put out product that was designed to fail sometimes...then turn around say "see I told you...". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I disagree with that kind of reasoning. Its that kind of reasoning that got Ford into this mess in the first place. If anything is going to become a brand with staying power, it takes a long sighted approach and commitment to it. The SVT badge didn't taint itself. And its not going to come back overnight either. There is no reason Ford couldn't have a public arm like an AMG or something similar that has the swagger to charge the premiums. But it takes time to develop. Just because it can't happen right this second doesn't mean that its impossible. If the company was committed to it, it would happen. The one thing I have seen from Ford is that when the company is committed to something, they can do well with it. However, when the company is NOT committed to something, you end up with a half ass attempt that almost reinforces the notion of why it shouldn't be there. Its like they put out product that was designed to fail sometimes...then turn around say "see I told you...". The SVT badge didn't taint itself because there was nothing to taint. Nobody knew or cared that it existed, except for a small niche group of owners and those who work at SVT. Again, I tell people I have a Mustang Cobra, not a Mustang SVT. Why? Because nobody knows or cares what an SVT is. The value of SVT is not in the brand's name. The value is in the individual products the brand produces. The value is in Mustang Cobra. The value is in Shelby GT500. The value is in Raptor. The value is in Lightning. The value isn't in Mustang SVT or F-150 SVT. It's a situation where the sum is not the equal of its parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) My 04 SVT Focus has a moon roof and audiophile (IIRC I just woke up) sound system. Acceleration is not bad, But the steering response is unfuckinbeleiveable. Overall a very fun car to drive. I know , I did drive one, LOVED the car, was a little lacking in acceleration but chassis was well sorted...however, in all honesty the Mini ( and I hate to say it ) trumped it in all counts, 65k and zero problems so far too ( barring a rat crawling under the warm hood and noshing on a plug wire...) Edited February 4, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) I disagree with that kind of reasoning. Its that kind of reasoning that got Ford into this mess in the first place. If anything is going to become a brand with staying power, it takes a long sighted approach and commitment to it. 1) If anything got Ford in trouble, it was focusing on sizzle instead of steak. 2) This statement presupposes that SVT is a brand worth developing. You can't convince me that's the case, as citing AMG is almost certainly inappropriate as an example for an entry-level manufacturer to imitate. Edited February 4, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) I'll dig out my sticker on my SVT Focus when I get home, but there was a sunroof option on it and as for the Radio, I'm fuzzy about it but it did have an upgraded stereo on it but not as nice as the HK unit I'll give you. I got mine A plan with no issues when the car came out..and as for incentives, IIRC they where pretty heavily incentivives on the car about 8 months after launch because they just sat on the lots. A plan was not avail to dealership employees at the time the SVT Focii was released...( and BOY was that a sore point to people like myself that have worked at the dealership for 20 plus )I paid syicker for the Mini and waited 9 months IMO, the problem with the focus could be pinned on Horsepower....20 is where it should have been, which WAS avail in Euro configurations, and they also could have differentiated the car a lot more. Nick...with you on the Adreniline concept...it WAS awesome, and I would have given my right -ut for that car.... Edited February 4, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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