Pioneer Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Manual transmission Honda w/4 banger engine is probably the most reliable powertrain available in a passenger car. Just gave a PIN for a Focus to a guy that had a 4-cylinder MT Civic. It gave up at 97,000 miles. My '00 Focus with the 2.0 and MT has 118k on it, and runs like a champ. No oil leaks, no burning oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 My 2 cents on the industry reliability. A friend of mine is a used car dealer and this is part his opinion also. The gold standard for reliability IMHO is Honda and not Toyota especially the last 5 years Toyotas. With the exception of the tranny on the 3.5 v6 (Pilot, Ridgeline, Odyssey) and the s2000 's drivetrain(likely due to the nature of drivers). Most Honda's rarely experience serious issues that render vehicle underivable. Are other Honda models flawless? No of course not. Good luck finding an older (150k+) Honda with working A/C. The previous gen accord(02-07) had weak suspension points and bad steering/ brakes. The exhaust system also suffered from rust corrosion. Heck, even the current accord has high number of middle LCD failure ($600 part). Also don't forget the expensive timing belt & water pump replacement that is regular maintenance on most Hondas and Toyotas. There is no such thing as a flawless or carefree vehicle. Toyotas reliability has dropped dramatically the last 5-6 years. The quality of parts used on newer vehicles continues to degrade to cheaper parts. Toyota is no longer competing in building the most reliable vehicle. They are interested in having the highest sales # and most profits. The parts Toyota uses are the same quality as domestics. I have seen way too many problems on newer Toyotas especially in the so called bullet proof drive train. I know 3 camry V6's that replaced tranny under 20K miles. Older toyotas were the gold standard. Those old ones lasted 200K miles and ran very smoothly w/o drinking oil provided the timing belt was regularly maintained. Newer toyotas are not build the same way. My Friend loves older toyota for resale. He says "we just clean them, new oil change, and sell them. No fixing no headache." Nissan was always a step below the other big Asian 2 but still better than rest until their merger with Renault. I know newer Nissans have problems with their CVT transmissions and VQ engine has tendency to have damaged valves (not sure if that is the problem). Most newer consumer reports places Nissans as slightly better than average in reliability. I don't have enough experience with Nissan owners to judge recent products. Most European cars are trouble prone and expensive to fix b/c lack of familiarity of US mechanics with them. I know a lot of people who avoid WV, BMW, MB, Jag, Volvo etc b/c of their concerns about affordability of keeping the car running. I do know that maintenance on these cars is very expensive. For 60K service on Saab; it is $650. For Mercedes Benz E class; the same service is $1100. I have yet to see a high millage(150K +) European car without problems or major work done on it. My friends dealer is too small to afford a big bill on BMW, MB, etc.. He also avoids WV except when a costumer asks for one. Finally I get to discuss domestics. Let me start by saying: Chrysler really damaged American car manufactures reliability image. Almost all chryslers except the ram have lower than average reliability by CR. It is like the quality engineers were offloaded when they merged with MB. My parents owned one of their products; and it was a complete nightmare. It cost more to run than a V12 Jag my Dad drove. Everyone I know who owns Chrysler says all domestics are junk. Yet if you ask current FoMoCo and GM owners they will say otherwise. Even auto dealers avoid used chryslers in auctions. That is why I wouldn't be upset if Chrysler went out of business. GM always had their great products (trucks, big cars) and their crappy problem cars ( Cadillac with Northstar V8, economy cars). Yet they never manged to dramatically improve them. It is like they know about the problem; know how to fix. but will not do so because the current product is good enough. My experience with GM had the engine & tranny are fairly dependable but the rest of the car falls apart. For example, the water pump, alternator, broken interior pieces, rattles all have issues. yet GM never managed to fix them. It seems when one buys a GM product; He is buying an engine & tranny but the rest of the car is the owner's responsibility. I know that GM gotten a lot better lately but still not as good as Ford & Honda. How much better Ford's reputation be if the Essex 3.8 headgasket, Taurus's tranny, and explorer's tranny issues were repaired asap and not as widespread?? I think if you take those problems out of Ford's older lineup; they are just as dependable as at worst older Nissans. Used 2000+ Fords have significantly less problems than older ones. I witness this first hand. What is also impressive is how well the rest of car holds up. Rattles are a lot less likely than before. With the exception of Explorer's (had 3 in row with bad trannys) My friend no longer avoids fords at auto auctions especially newer ones. Also CR and JD power associates don't lie. Ford's quality is a lot better. I have had 2 Fords for 45K & 35K miles on 2 vehicles with very little problems in either car. And both of them were first year production and should have more problems than more established models. Finally vehicle reliability and quality is all about effort and desire from an auto maker. There is no high tech R&D needed or expensive prototypes. It is a matter of continually improving and solving issues with your current product. Any automaker can be good at it. Sorry about my rant. That was a great rant! Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 BTW the ad is well done. I agree, I liked it, although I'm thinking that may be a Canadian ad (not in US) because I believe that was Kiefer Sutherland at the end, and the website link looks like it says ford.ca On to the Taurus. I dont like the hood on it. Looks like what they did with the Chryslers does it not? Everyone here hates the Sebring, but is that not the Sebring hood on the new Taurus? ? Does the new Taurus have as much trunk space as the current? To be honest, I like the current body style. It could have more pizazz like the New one could look less like a Sebring. But that's just me. Peace and Blessings No, Sebring's hood has grooves in it all over the place, the Taurus' new hood has a few raised "power bulges." Remove the grooves, and you may have an argument, but with them, IMO, there's no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I agree, I liked it, although I'm thinking that may be a Canadian ad (not in US) because I believe that was Kiefer Sutherland at the end, and the website link looks like it says ford.ca I believe you are correct. I've seen it a few times. Our Powered by You slogan sure didn't stick long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Are the B-Series the 1.6-1.7L? Two girlfriends, both had Honda 3-dr HB (one white 95, one black 98-99ish) both manual and over 120,000km. For the powertrain, pretty much unbelievable how well they work. I know of many 2.0 Escorts with twice that mileage and no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Are the B-Series the 1.6-1.7L? Two girlfriends, both had Honda 3-dr HB (one white 95, one black 98-99ish) both manual and over 120,000km. For the powertrain, pretty much unbelievable how well they work. 120,000km? That's only about 72,000 miles. Nothing to write home about. My '99 F150 had 136k...our Escape had 70k+ with nary an issue, and was still going strong. We'd still have it today if it weren't for child #3 coming along. I'm sure there are plenty cars (of all makes) running around with > 75,000 miles with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Oh yeah, forgot about the Ridgeline. Yeccchhhh Honda was trying to put a new spin on an established segment. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Most people would just be better off with a regular F-150 or Silverado instead of a Ridgeline. One good trend I've noticed with Ford is that it seems to be correcting problems much more quickly. Problems aren't allowed to linger for years, as they did with the 3.8 V-6 head gaskets. GM, on the other hand, doesn't seem to realize that correcting problems quickly also buys some goodwill (the problems with the Northstar V-8 lingered for over a decade, and may still be present, for all I know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Manual transmission Honda w/4 banger engine is probably the most reliable powertrain available in a passenger car. That probably should've been, "Manual transmission Honda w/4 banger engine used to be the most reliable powertrain in a passenger car." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkoko Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) One good trend I've noticed with Ford is that it seems to be correcting problems much more quickly. Problems aren't allowed to linger for years, as they did with the 3.8 V-6 head gaskets. GM, on the other hand, doesn't seem to realize that correcting problems quickly also buys some goodwill (the problems with the Northstar V-8 lingered for over a decade, and may still be present, for all I know). Forget fixing inherent flaws in that engine. How about regular maintenance? It is soo cramped and soo hard to work on that I think it is easier to get the motor out of the car, fix it, put it back than it is to fix it in the engine bay. Did GM engineers think about service, maintenance, and accessibility when they designed that engine compartment? Edited March 19, 2009 by pkoko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkoko Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 That probably should've been, "Manual transmission Honda w/4 banger engine used to be the most reliable powertrain in a passenger car." So the panthers are the most reliable powertrain in a passenger car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Haven't a clue what's reliable now. Honda's 4 cyl + 5 speed is probably still right up there, but geez. Any 90s Honda Accord/Civic would rust out long before the engine ever gave out. ---- Also, I think one of the major problems with the Northstar is that ludicrous bottom end design. They've had no end of problems with that ridiculous single bearing cap assembly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Forget fixing inherent flaws in that engine. How about regular maintenance? It is soo cramped and soo hard to work on that I think it is easier to get the motor out of the car, fix it, put it back than it is to fix it in the engine bay. Did GM engineers think about service, maintenance, and accessibility when they designed that engine compartment? Oh now.. I'm not familiar with GM's engines, but a good example of this for Ford is the 3.5L used in the Edge. The windshield comes down to right in the middle of the intake manifold. So to get to the rear plugs, you have to remove the intake manifold. And that means your now sitting on top of the engine. Strange, but at over 100,000 miles, that seems to be the next owners problem. These aren't the cars from the 60's where you have an open football field with an engine sitting in them, under a hood. Everything is as compacted to reduce vehicle size while maximizing interior space. Makes me wonder what vehicle holds the record for the largest number of cup-holders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 While there are some annoyances, in working on modern Fords, they don't hold a candle to working on most foreign cars. Remember that we had a shop. Obviously pkoko also understands. Try to do a timing belt on any Japanese car................. which you have to do................ when they say to do it...................... because they are an interference engine. Try doing a simple LOF on a CRV, or worse yet, CV boots/joints. How about a waterpump on a Toyota 3.0 V6. The list just goes on and on. As an aside, my V10 also has a couple of plugs under the cowl. The only good news for me, is, I put so few miles on, in a year, that it will be a long time before we have to replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Oh now.. I'm not familiar with GM's engines, but a good example of this for Ford is the 3.5L used in the Edge. The windshield comes down to right in the middle of the intake manifold. So to get to the rear plugs, you have to remove the intake manifold. And that means your now sitting on top of the engine. Strange, but at over 100,000 miles, that seems to be the next owners problem. These aren't the cars from the 60's where you have an open football field with an engine sitting in them, under a hood. Everything is as compacted to reduce vehicle size while maximizing interior space. Makes me wonder what vehicle holds the record for the largest number of cup-holders? The '60s cars weren't always so easy to work on. My '66 T-Bird 390 is a very tight fit. The last two plugs on the driver's side are a real bitch to get out. My '67 Grand Prix 400 was the opposite. The first two on the passenger side were a nightmare. Modern cars aren't designed for owner service. They keep putting plastic covers over the engine to deter you from even looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Oh now.. I'm not familiar with GM's engines, but a good example of this for Ford is the 3.5L used in the Edge. The windshield comes down to right in the middle of the intake manifold. So to get to the rear plugs, you have to remove the intake manifold. And that means your now sitting on top of the engine. Strange, but at over 100,000 miles, that seems to be the next owners problem. These aren't the cars from the 60's where you have an open football field with an engine sitting in them, under a hood. Everything is as compacted to reduce vehicle size while maximizing interior space. Makes me wonder what vehicle holds the record for the largest number of cup-holders? 10 in the Excursion. Think that probly does it. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 While there are some annoyances, in working on modern Fords, they don't hold a candle to working on most foreign cars. Remember that we had a shop. Obviously pkoko also understands. Try to do a timing belt on any Japanese car................. which you have to do................ when they say to do it...................... because they are an interference engine. Try doing a simple LOF on a CRV, or worse yet, CV boots/joints. How about a waterpump on a Toyota 3.0 V6. The list just goes on and on. As an aside, my V10 also has a couple of plugs under the cowl. The only good news for me, is, I put so few miles on, in a year, that it will be a long time before we have to replace them. The last 2 plugs on the passenger bank are a pain but not that bad to do really. The rest are pretty straight forward and easy to do. Plugs in some of the older V6 GM FWD's were way harder to replace. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Well, looks like the new JD Power results more or less back up what Ford is preaching in their ads. :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Well, looks like the new JD Power results more or less back up what Ford is preaching in their ads. :happy feet: Thanks to those ole Panthers & Rangers that are now facing the axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Thanks to those ole Panthers & Rangers that are now facing the axe. :rolleyes: And the cancelled FWD Freestar and FWD Milan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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