Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 For the same reason pro athletes don't pay to fly to and from games. Athletes don't pay to fly to and from games because that is where their job is on that day. Alan is paid to fly back and forth from Seattle because that is where his family is. Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Different cultures. Different mindsets. To compare them is just silly. You're not going to find a good CEO in the U.S. for the money they are paid in Japan. You want that kind of executive pay? Move to Japan. Or go work for Toyota. :P Just because we can't change it doesn't mean we can't complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 How about you pay all your dental or vision care in your benefits? We do. We have not taken a pay raise in 6 years because they have been diverted to our benefit package. in All seriousness would you want to work for Ford to try and turn them around back about 5 years ago if you where making good money with Boeing? Nope. If I was in his shoes, with his age I would have retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Athletes don't pay to fly to and from games because that is where their job is on that day. Alan is paid to fly back and forth from Seattle because that is where his family is. Big difference. There's no difference at all. A perk is a perk is a perk. Just because the perk is for something different doesn't mean it's not a perk. These teams could just as well tell the athletes to pay for their own airfare to and from games. After all, they can easily afford it, right? Why should the team pay for it? And those players are given free tickets to every game for their friends and families. They can afford to buy tickets for them, no? It's a perk and it's part of how business is done in America. That's just the way it is. It's how it has always been. It's hopefully how it will always be. Edited May 11, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 There's no difference at all. A perk is a perk is a perk. It's a perk for a sports organization to fly the athlete to where the game is to be played? Are you listening to yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 It's a perk for a sports organization to fly the athlete to where the game is to be played? Are you listening to yourself? You are missing the point. Look at my second example instead. Free tickets to games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Athletes don't pay to fly to and from games because that is where their job is on that day. Alan is paid to fly back and forth from Seattle because that is where his family is. Big difference. No, Alan is paid to fly back and forth to Detroit because that is where his job is. No? You're looking at it backwards...they are no paying to fly him to Seattle and back, they are paying to fly him to Detroit and back. Same things as pro athletes as Nick mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 No, Alan is paid to fly back and forth to Detroit because that is where his job is. Alan lives in Detroit and works in Detroit. He doesn't fly to Seattle for business, therefore his business shouldn't have to pay for him to fly to Seattle. I can't make it any easier than that. If you can't see the hypocrisy of him having the company pay for personal travel while he is asking for concessions from workers, than I give up. I guess all cubicle dwellers think alike. Since I don't wear a shirt and tie into work I can't understand the lopsided thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 You are missing the point. I must be because the logic of management has never made sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I guess all cubicle dwellers think alike. Since I don't wear a shirt and tie into work I can't understand the lopsided thinking. So if I wore a blue shirt with my name on a patch sewn above the breast pocket suddenly I would understand why CEO's don't deserve perks for the job they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Alan lives in Detroit and works in Detroit. He doesn't fly to Seattle for business, therefore his business shouldn't have to pay for him to fly to Seattle. I can't make it any easier than that. If you can't see the hypocrisy of him having the company pay for personal travel while he is asking for concessions from workers, than I give up. I guess all cubicle dwellers think alike. Since I don't wear a shirt and tie into work I can't understand the lopsided thinking. I was under the impression he lived in Seattle since his family lived there. The way I look at it, you have to pay each person what they are worth to the company. Is M worth $39M (or whatever the number is)? If he turns Ford around and turns a profit, then I say yes. Am I worth $39M to my company? Hell no...I can't write that much code! But, if I were offered a job in Detroit, as part of the deal, the company would have to agree to fly me back to MO every weekend to see my family. If they don't think I'm worth that, then they won't pay it. It has nothing to do with whether you work in a cubicle or on the line, white or blue collar. It has to do with the fact that different jobs require different levels of compensation, and each person requires a different level of compensation depending on what they bring to the table. That is the problem I see with unions (at least the union IT shop I contracted for...not making generalizations and not bashing unions). Everyone got the same pay increase and the same salary range regardless of their performance. How exactly does that entice a person to perform to the best of their abilities, if they don't get any additional compensation for their hard work than Joe Bloe gets reading magazines half the day. Very demoralizing, and I saw it first hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I'm not sure what Bill Ford and the rest of the family was thinking when over the years they allowed the T-Bird and Taurus to be killed, allowed Daimler (Freightliner) to steal the heavy truck line, sold the farm tractor biz, and spun off Visteon. I mean these guys have their name on the building and they emaciated the company! On top of that they paid way too much for JLR and Volvo! By the way, Visteon is 19th on the list of suppliers, a list on which 50 percent are foreign based! From observing the above mistakes, I'm surprised Bill had the smarts to hire Mulally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 So if I wore a blue shirt with my name on a patch sewn above the breast pocket suddenly I would understand why CEO's don't deserve perks for the job they do? Maybe. Not just the clothes, but the experience might just do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Athletes don't pay to fly to and from games because that is where their job is on that day. They could always force them to take a bus to get to the games Maybe. Not just the clothes, but the experience might just do it. So your saying that No CEO has ever had a crappy job before coming a CEO where they had to do grunt work? That's what I don't get about you...you bitch and complain, but hey isn't is a basic human nature to do a job and tried to get paid as much for it and maybe to a lesser extent not bust your ass all the time to do it? But I guess Busting ass is all in the eye of the beholder...might think Mulally's Job is easy, but I'd say its a lot harder to make people play nice with one another then it is do what ever you might do as an electrician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Maybe. Not just the clothes, but the experience might just do it. Mmmkay. I've had blue collar jobs before (including the shirt I described earlier :lol: ). It didn't change my mind then. Not sure why it would now. Edited May 11, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 So your saying that No CEO has ever had a crappy job before coming a CEO where they had to do grunt work? That's what I don't get about you...you bitch and complain, but hey isn't is a basic human nature to do a job and tried to get paid as much for it and maybe to a lesser extent not bust your ass all the time to do it? But I guess Busting ass is all in the eye of the beholder...might think Mulally's Job is easy, but I'd say its a lot harder to make people play nice with one another then it is do what ever you might do as an electrician To some, a mentally or emotionally exhausting job means nothing. It has to be physically exhausting to be considered real work. In my experience, those with a physically exhausing job cannot appreciate what it takes to be in a mentally exhausting job. The reverse is not the case. This is because those with a mentally challenging job have usually been a part of the other side at one point in there life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I'm not sure what Bill Ford and the rest of the family was thinking when over the years they allowed the T-Bird and Taurus to be killed, allowed Daimler (Freightliner) to steal the heavy truck line, sold the farm tractor biz, and spun off Visteon. I mean these guys have their name on the building and they emaciated the company! On top of that they paid way too much for JLR and Volvo! By the way, Visteon is 19th on the list of suppliers, a list on which 50 percent are foreign based! From observing the above mistakes, I'm surprised Bill had the smarts to hire Mulally! I say bring Philco back. I loved that big stereo they used to make. :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Alan lives in Detroit and works in Detroit. He doesn't fly to Seattle for business, therefore his business shouldn't have to pay for him to fly to Seattle. I can't make it any easier than that. If you can't see the hypocrisy of him having the company pay for personal travel while he is asking for concessions from workers, than I give up. I guess all cubicle dwellers think alike. Since I don't wear a shirt and tie into work I can't understand the lopsided thinking. Pioneer, you are wrong about this............. just admit it. Alan lives in Detroit. Ask him where his home is. I will guarantee you, that he will say it is in Seattle. Living in Detroit, during the week, is just a convenience. That does not mean it is his home. My husband was looking at a job, before he got his current one, that he would have had to rent in the Valley, to make it work. If he had done that, his home would have still been in Payson. Thus, Ford is flying him in to work. Thus, they pay for it. Do you really think that anyone "wants" to MOVE to Detroit, on purpose??? Oh, Japanese CEO's get many perks, that American CEO's can't even dream about. You never see them listed in their annual compansation.............. but they are there, none the less. It is one of the advantages to being a high member of the "collective." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Pioneer, you are wrong about this............. just admit it. No, I'm not wrong. His family is being flown across the country for personal business. It wasn't right when Mark Fields did it on a company jet, and it's not right now that Ford is paying for them to fly commercial. Anybody that thinks otherwise is delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 No, I'm not wrong. His family is being flown across the country for personal business. It wasn't right when Mark Fields did it on a company jet, and it's not right now that Ford is paying for them to fly commercial. Anybody that thinks otherwise is delusional. Would it make you feel better if they just paid him that much more in salary so he could pay for it himself? Because frankly, that's what it would amount to. It's called a perk. You ask for them when you want a job. If the company wants you bad enough, they'll give you what you are asking for. The man wants to be around his family (a commendable thing in itself in the business community) and you call it wrong. Well fine. Like I said, go find a job with a CEO who gets paid jack and gets no perks for being in his position. Good luck working in another country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Would it make you feel better if they just paid him that much more in salary so he could pay for it himself? Because frankly, that's what it would amount to. It's called a perk. You ask for them when you want a job. If the company wants you bad enough, they'll give you what you are asking for. The man wants to be around his family (a commendable thing in itself in the business community) and you call it wrong. Well fine. Like I said, go find a job with a CEO who gets paid jack and gets no perks for being in his position. Good luck working in another country. Or better yet, go get a job as the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company and quit bitchin about the perks CEO's get! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Or better yet, go get a job as the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company and quit bitchin about the perks CEO's get! If he was CEO, I doubt he'd find much to complain about in their compensation or their perks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 It's called a perk. It's called being a hypocrite, taking a perk like that, and then telling your employees that they need to accept cuts because the company is in trouble. If the company was doing fine, I would have no problem with it. Unfortunately, we are not. Cuts need to be made, and it should be done by all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 If he was CEO I could never be a CEO. I have a conscience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 1) Mulally pays taxes on that perk. It's taxable income (however, feel free to consult Tom Daschle's tax attorney for a different perspective). 2) Maybe Mulally is overpaid, but maybe pioneer is overpaid too. IMO, it's all academic. Pioneer wouldn't take a job elsewhere without a comparable pay package and neither would Mulally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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