blazerdude20 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 link Geely’s $2 billion offer will likely make it the top bidder for Volvo. A decision on the proposed sale could come in the next several weeks, according to the Wall Street Journal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 link Good, what can Ford spend the money on? GRWD? Cutting 600lbs out of the D3? Building more autoplants in China, India and Russia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 "Mr. Li’s plan for Volvo, according to the report, is to slash the brand’s costs by taking advantage of lower product development and manufacturing costs available in China." Sounds like some swedes will be out of work if they move development to China too! This will put the last nail in the coffin of Volvo if Geely starts developing Volvos, it will be a Volvo in name only. I do not see the Chinese doing the extensive R&D and crash testing they do now. Wonder if they will duplicate the Volvos extensive crash lab or send them to Sweden or forget it all together and just run them into a brick wall to meet min fed standards. Color me a skeptic! I also see this as a long range case of Ford shooting themselves in the foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 "Mr. Li’s plan for Volvo, according to the report, is to slash the brand’s costs by taking advantage of lower product development and manufacturing costs available in China." Sounds like some swedes will be out of work if they move development to China too! This will put the last nail in the coffin of Volvo if Geely starts developing Volvos, it will be a Volvo in name only. I do not see the Chinese doing the extensive R&D and crash testing they do now. Wonder if they will duplicate the Volvos extensive crash lab or send them to Sweden or forget it all together and just run them into a brick wall to meet min fed standards. Color me a skeptic! I also see this as a long range case of Ford shooting themselves in the foot. You think Geely's gonna do all that (basically get rid of Volvo's safety reputation, or at least not be at the forefront of safety tech as it is now) then say Ford's shooting themselves in the foot? Unless of course you mean Ford would lose out on future Volvo tech that they'd develop if they were able to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I doubt Ford will give it up for 2 billion. Money should go to GRWD and a Middle east plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougarpower Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 If the swedish union reads this I bet there is no way in hell Geely will get Volvo, as much as some here say Volvo needs to go I think Volvo can have a future with Ford , IMO some of Volvos productions should be moved to current Ford platform plants so the C30 and Focus could be build in the same plant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reigner92 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Volvo is worth much much more than 2 billion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) Volvo is worth much much more than 2 billion. Nah, Ford should take the $2 billion and run, those quarterly losses are really starting to pile up. They've lost almost that much in the past 5 quarters. Edited July 21, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 While I agree that Ford could have exploited Volvo more for the benefit of both Ford and Volvo, it is time to cut the cord so to speak...I had wished Ford would have brought some Volvo production to North America, they certainly have the capacity...they didn't, and the Volvo brand has been left to lanquish in hopes a new suitor will come in and inject fresh capital in needs to develop future products. Maybe Ford will retain a minority share position to be able to tap into the brand yet again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) "Mr. Li’s plan for Volvo, according to the report, is to slash the brand’s costs by taking advantage of lower product development and manufacturing costs available in China." Sounds like some swedes will be out of work if they move development to China too! I don't feel sorry for them. Ford shopped around looking for assistance from the Swedish government or even a Swedish co-owner (including Volvo AB) and got nothing. Edited July 21, 2009 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Volvo is worth much much more than 2 billion. I concur ! While I agree that Ford could have exploited Volvo more for the benefit of both Ford and Volvo, it is time to cut the cord so to speak...I had wished Ford would have brought some Volvo production to North America, they certainly have the capacity...they didn't, and the Volvo brand has been left to lanquish in hopes a new suitor will come in and inject fresh capital in needs to develop future products. The attitude for many years was to leave them alone and not let the rest of Ford "pollute" their processes. Ford could observer from a distance and adopt their "best practices". Unfortunately, most of the manufacturing best practices don't scale up to the volume at which For build vehicles in the US. Others "best practices" are just no cost effective. (I was told that the S80 has a separate diagnostic computer (in addition to all of the diagnostic built into the individual computers) to manage software versions and do other tasks that have no direct connection to the customer.) Maybe Ford will retain a minority share position to be able to tap into the brand yet again? I would certainly hope so at that price ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Volvo is worth much much more than 2 billion. Not in todays market. If Ford sold it 2 years ago, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 On an accounting basis, Ford lost money on Volvo. In really, they got the basis for the D3 platform and Volvo input into the C1 and EUCD. They got the knowledge to build the safest cars in the world. They learned about flexible design. They learned about diesel and 5 cylinder engines. I would say that Ford got their moneys worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 You think Geely's gonna do all that (basically get rid of Volvo's safety reputation, or at least not be at the forefront of safety tech as it is now) then say Ford's shooting themselves in the foot? Unless of course you mean Ford would lose out on future Volvo tech that they'd develop if they were able to? I can see your confusion, what I was going for was that Volvos current tech will enable the Chinese to enter the U.S. and Euro markets by being able to meet federal crash standards which they currently cannot. Money talks and cheap cars sell ( see Hyundai + Kia ) this is where the shoot self in foot takes place. Long range I doubt the Chinese will continue the to fund the expensive Swedish labor and design/crash facilities will stay afloat. I could see a small design (as in styling studio) being kept Swedish but ultimately all engineering and consruction would be chinese for the obvious cost savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) I can see your confusion, what I was going for was that Volvos current tech will enable the Chinese to enter the U.S. and Euro markets by being able to meet federal crash standards which they currently cannot. Money talks and cheap cars sell ( see Hyundai + Kia ) this is where the shoot self in foot takes place. Long range I doubt the Chinese will continue the to fund the expensive Swedish labor and design/crash facilities will stay afloat. I could see a small design (as in styling studio) being kept Swedish but ultimately all engineering and consruction would be chinese for the obvious cost savings. Ok, thanks for re-explaining. Edited July 22, 2009 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkarlo Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I doubt Ford will give it up for 2 billion. Money should go to GRWD and a Middle east plant. I thought Ford morgaged it for $5B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Right now I equate the Volvo situation to someone owning a beater that is going to require major repairs to keep it on the road. Sure, it was worth more in its heyday, but what is it worth today? Sure, maybe someday it will be a collectors item and be worth more, but when? It is just the beater you use to drive back and forth to work. You have other cars you can drive. Someone offers you something better than scrap value for the beater, so you take it. You save future repair costs, and you can use the cash to put new tires on another car and make a few extra payments on the note. If Ford can get $2b for Volvo, they should take it. And use the cash to offset some of the current cash burn and if any is left, apply it to debt service. And the plus side is that there are no more expenses to keep Volvo going. This will help Ford return to profitibility sooner, which is a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Right now I equate the Volvo situation to someone owning a beater that is going to require major repairs to keep it on the road. Sure, it was worth more in its heyday, but what is it worth today? Sure, maybe someday it will be a collectors item and be worth more, but when? It is just the beater you use to drive back and forth to work. You have other cars you can drive. Someone offers you something better than scrap value for the beater, so you take it. You save future repair costs, and you can use the cash to put new tires on another car and make a few extra payments on the note. If Ford can get $2b for Volvo, they should take it. And use the cash to offset some of the current cash burn and if any is left, apply it to debt service. And the plus side is that there are no more expenses to keep Volvo going. This will help Ford return to profitibility sooner, which is a good thing! I still contend its shortsighted if they sell to the Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I still contend its shortsighted if they sell to the Chinese. In the long run, it won't make a hill of beans difference. The Chinese aren't stupid. They'll figure out the safety issues eventually, with or without Volvo. To think that owning Volvo will suddenly make Geely a world-class car manufacturer overnight and they wouldn't have a chance without them is simplifying things far too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I thought Ford morgaged it for $5B? Maybe Ford is planning to pay down their debt by $5B. Just think would the headlines do for sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 In the long run, it won't make a hill of beans difference. The Chinese aren't stupid. They'll figure out the safety issues eventually, with or without Volvo. To think that owning Volvo will suddenly make Geely a world-class car manufacturer overnight and they wouldn't have a chance without them is simplifying things far too much. So your in the lets do nothing now camp and lets see how things play out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 So your in the lets do nothing now camp and lets see how things play out? "Lets" being whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 "Lets" being whom? I do not understand the basis of your question? "lets" was used as a verb a doing word. Though I did use the word camp so one could imply other folks who do not care or who are to ignorant to know better. You will have to clarify the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I do not understand the basis of your question? "lets" was used as a verb a doing word. Though I did use the word camp so one could imply other folks who do not care or who are to ignorant to know better. You will have to clarify the question. Okay. Who is the "us" in your "Let US doing nothing camp"? "Us" as in you and me, or "us" as in Ford, or "us" as in the United States as a whole? I don't see what you were trying to say by saying I was part of a "do nothing camp"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Okay. Who is the "us" in your "Let US doing nothing camp"? "Us" as in you and me, or "us" as in Ford, or "us" as in the United States as a whole? I don't see what you were trying to say by saying I was part of a "do nothing camp"? I wrote: "So your in the lets do nothing now camp and lets see how things play out?" Really all I am getting at is the rest of the world wants what we have, the Chinese will beg, steal, borrow and buy whatever they can get its in our own national interest as U.S. Citizens to keep our advanced technology out of others reach who may use it against us in the future. There is a reason we have export controls on high tech (whether it be physical or intellectual) Having a strong industrial base with cutting edge tech has been a strength of the U.S. for decades and the sale of Volvo to the communists it but one more piece of the pie we will not have. Anyone who thinks the Chinese government in our friend is misguided at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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