Lincoln Maybe Sold Globally....Someday

[elkarlo]

The guys with missing fingers used to love Town Cars!!

 

When you see them in person, you don't have to be told who they are.....

 

naw, yaks nowdays mear suits, only way to tell is by the hair. they drive bmws and mer now. its the yankees and rap guys who drive big american cars here.

[rmc523]

Actually, no.

 

The Lincoln program for Europe (with the LS) was cancelled when there was only Lincoln and Jag. No LR nor Volvo and it was before Premier Auto Group.

 

I will grant you that things are different now with more focus. But Ford has a huge hole because the Ford brand is not recognized as a luxury manufacturer, and Ford does not have any brand (including Lincoln) which is recogized for luxury in most of the world. Heck, Lincoln isn't even recognized by most people in the U.S. as true luxury.

 

So Ford's job is huge. Lexus has been throwing one product after another into Europe for years with limited success. You can't just thow cars into a market -- there has to be a plan and lots of support. And it can be very, very expensive.

 

I still maintain that Europe is a long road with limited volume potential. And it likely won't happen on unique platforms to Europe. So that means a Lincoln C could be considered, but the C/D's and crossovers would have to wait until CD4 underpins them. And normally, you wouldn't enter a market with a single entry (remember, for instance, that Lexus had to tie a piece of junk ES300 to the original LS when they first set up shop in the U.S.?). So any Lincoln export plan has to be relatively long term. I'm sure Ford is looking at it as they have many, many, many times in the past.

 

I stand corrected on the original global Lincoln plan then.

 

Just for the record, I'm not saying Ford should just throw Lincoln products around the world to see what sticks where, I was just saying there's a different focus/attitude at Ford now, but even that doesn't mean that any global Lincoln plan would be successful.

 

I do see Lincoln expanding into certain markets down the road once it gets a more stable lineup - will that eventually include Europe? Who knows? :shrug:

[timmm55]

One thing I've never understood, why hasn't Ford made a premium brand in Europe in the past 60 years?

They've been a player there like VW who also make mainstream cars, and they have Audi, to me a not-so-premium car line.

 

WHY NOT FORD?

Whereever they sell Fords they can sell Lincolns and Mercurys initially.

 

The problems I see is the name of a U.S. President (do they know or care about our history?) , lack of RWD and they just aren't very European in nature.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, maybe this is part of the new RWD Mustang/Falcon/Lincoln platform? :happy feet:

[Edstock]

One thing I've never understood, why hasn't Ford made a premium brand in Europe in the past 60 years?

Lots of reasons. One is a Detroit is center of the universe mind-set.

 

Another is that, using 60 years as a timescale makes it 1950, and Europe was still climbing out of WW2's trashfest and there just wasn't a luxury market of any size, until the early 60's, and Mercedes had it covered as that company re-built itself. Along with the French Citroen DS-19/21, and Jaguar's big sedan, the 3 marques had the premium market sewn-up, and companies like Delahaye, Bugatti, and Armstrong-Siddley folded and builders like Daimler and Bristol became irrelevant.

 

And by the 70's-80's, Ford's EU management wouldn't or couldn't get Dearborn to approve a premium effort.

[2b2]

thanks for listing those reasons, Ed

but

...And by the 70's-80's, Ford's EU management wouldn't or couldn't get Dearborn to approve a premium effort.

that ^ then becomes the (more precise) question

altho

I'm rather glad they didn't because now there's plenty of room for Lincoln-MERCURY :D

 

[broken record]

MKG (toptrim KuGa)

+

Mercury CAPRI

 

just think of them as 2 mustard seeds

[/broken record]

[mustang84isu]

On this whole "Lincoln in Europe" thing, I agree totally with Austin. And I'm not trying to be a kiss-up.

 

The market's saturated with luxury brands, and you've got a population that tends toward chauvinism (the original meaning, not the sexist one).

 

Except, I'd insert a caveat that there may be more opportunities in Eastern Europe where 1) the US is perceived differently, 2) the luxury sector isn't stagnant and saturated.

 

Outside of China, though, I don't see any market where it would pay for Ford to make a big push with Lincoln.

 

Nor do I necessarily think that Ford is at a serious disadvantage because it is missing a global luxury brand. Honda has certainly done well without one (Acura, like Lexus, has a reach that barely exceeds Lincoln's).

I wouldn't even bank on China. The country has been on a construction binge the last 5 years. Most of the substantial GDP growth during the recession has been due to enormous government infrastructure projects that have kept the factories churning; now there are entire pre-fab cities sitting empty with no buyers. China looks to be setting up for an even worse crash than the West saw.

[ausrutherford]

I wouldn't even bank on China. The country has been on a construction binge the last 5 years. Most of the substantial GDP growth during the recession has been due to enormous government infrastructure projects that have kept the factories churning; now there are entire pre-fab cities sitting empty with no buyers. China looks to be setting up for an even worse crash than the West saw.

 

As long as we are paying them 500m a day just in interest, they will continue to grow

[RichardJensen]

I wouldn't even bank on China. The country has been on a construction binge the last 5 years. Most of the substantial GDP growth during the recession has been due to enormous government infrastructure projects that have kept the factories churning; now there are entire pre-fab cities sitting empty with no buyers. China looks to be setting up for an even worse crash than the West saw.

True.

 

But none of the ex Warsaw Pact countries deserve a greater investment.

 

---

 

Also, to the question of VW & Audi, VW bought NSU and thereby got Audi. They were able to build the brand off of German chauvinism into a somewhat respectable entity, although it is still decidedly the weak sister of the German luxury brands. Smallest in production and lowest on the status totem pole.

[elkarlo]

thanks for listing those reasons, Ed

but

that ^ then becomes the (more precise) question

altho

I'm rather glad they didn't because now there's plenty of room for Lincoln-MERCURY :D

 

[broken record]

MKG (toptrim KuGa)

+

Mercury CAPRI

 

just think of them as 2 mustard seeds

[/broken record]

 

i think maybe since the euro market has a generally lower profit margin. that maybe ford thought it just wasnt worth the set up costs.

 

oh and speaking of acura, anyone who bashes mercury should beat up on acura too. at least ford has lincoln too

[2b2]

i think maybe since the euro market has a generally lower profit margin. that maybe ford thought it just wasnt worth the set up costs...

that's one of the reasons Imho they could start with the MKG & Capri

IT"S NOT REBADGING!!!

it's CORRECTING what have been Inaccurate badges :yup:

imho the Focus Cabrio ALWAYS was a MERCURY

& the KuGa is a euro-sized LINCOLN with one trim-level too low

 

...oh and speaking of acura, anyone who bashes mercury should beat up on acura too. at least ford has lincoln too

And Mercury's designers haven't all simultaneously gone blind like hondACURA's :glare: :P

[bzcat]

True.

 

But none of the ex Warsaw Pact countries deserve a greater investment.

 

---

 

Also, to the question of VW & Audi, VW bought NSU and thereby got Audi. They were able to build the brand off of German chauvinism into a somewhat respectable entity, although it is still decidedly the weak sister of the German luxury brands. Smallest in production and lowest on the status totem pole.

 

 

Actually VW purchased Audi from Mercedes. NSU was added later. Autounion consisted of Audi, Horch, DKW, and Wanderer. NSU was never part of it until VW forced them to merge.

 

In terms of production, Audi leads the pack. It sells more cars in Europe than Mercedes and BMW. Plus it is the dominant player in China, far outselling all other luxury car brands.

 

Status depends on who you ask... Audi's customer profile in Europe and North America is pretty interesting. It is the only luxury car brands that is more preferred by people to the left of political spectrum than right, who generally buy most of the luxury cars.

[elkarlo]

that's one of the reasons Imho they could start with the MKG & Capri

IT"S NOT REBADGING!!!

it's CORRECTING what have been Inaccurate badges :yup:

imho the Focus Cabrio ALWAYS was a MERCURY

& the KuGa is a euro-sized LINCOLN with one trim-level too low

 

 

And Mercury's designers haven't all simultaneously gone blind like hondACURA's :glare: :P

 

 

sorry usin my cell

 

anyhow, i think with just lincoln, that they have no choice but make decent offering.

 

this may be a departure from ford buying companies instead of building its way into the lux market. heck ford bought lincoln.

 

saw a 929, wonder if they can get mazda to split the plat r an d costs?

[mettech]

that's one of the reasons Imho they could start with the MKG & Capri

IT"S NOT REBADGING!!!

it's CORRECTING what have been Inaccurate badges :yup:

imho the Focus Cabrio ALWAYS was a MERCURY

& the KuGa is a euro-sized LINCOLN with one trim-level too low

 

 

And Mercury's designers haven't all simultaneously gone blind like hondACURA's :glare: :P

 

Mercury designers?? :shades:

 

That would be like a Maytag repairman's job.

 

Nothing to do but to sit around all day.

[2b2]

Mercury designers?? :shades:

:P :P :P

designers OF Mercurys

not

designers belonging TO Mercury

 

as we all know the Mercury design dept only has 1/2 of a pencil EXCLUSIVE to its use

but

DAMN they do great work with that stub :D

[RichardJensen]

It sells more cars in Europe than Mercedes and BMW.

As near as I can tell, that only just happened this past year, and that partially attributable to the scrapage schemes. Heck, Toyota outsold Mercedes in Europe last year.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

IMHO, if Ford goes abroad with Lincoln, then their only real hope of a growth market is China. It will be a gamble, like any venture of this sort is, but, it's one that I think they might fond some success in. So long as China has a successful market for its exported products, there will continue to be economic investment and growth there. With them moving to tighten control of the rare earth metals that they export, that should further enrich them as they create an artificial market demand bubble there. I really see China as the only large market in the world that still has a major upside remaining in its growth.

 

As for the rest of the world, I don't think Lincoln has a lot of place in it. The MKS might sell a steady number of units in Australia, but it won't support the necessary investment that it will require to homologate them for that market and support them once in it.

 

No, the only other thing I can see Ford possibly trying is to sell Mercury overseas in the near-luxury, high efficiency segment. They could go with a three model lineup of a Mercury "Focus " with a hybrid drivetrain (with possible all electric and econetic diesel versions), a Mercury "Kuga" with hybrid/all electric/econetic drivetrain and Mercury and a Mercury Milan hybrid/electric/econetic. Its only a possible niche and one that will only exist if EU tightens the reigns on Diesel emissions. By then, Milan will be sharing a platform with the Mondeo and the Kuga platform will be shared with the US Escape. The big hurdle here will be the hybrid Focus. I expect one someday, so, it may be by then.

 

I just don't see any attraction for Lincoln in Europe. Mercury might have a better shot. Of course, all of those Mercury products that I mentioned could be sold as Fords, and likely will. I just see the opportunity for a branding for Mercury there that might succeed. Again, its all high risk, and I don't see a lot of reward.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

It would be great to see a RWD Lincoln come to Europe and kick BMW & Mercs arse, gotta say l would buy one.

 

Ford already have a massive network of dealers in Europe that they could sell Lincolns through, even if it you had to wait a few months as part of the terms and conditions for a RHD "Made in the USA" Lincoln with the right spec you wanted, gotta say it would be well worth the wait.

 

With commonality of more and more Ford parts thanks to big Al, and Ecoboost/Econetic engines already available in Europe to help make the Lincolns more MPG C02 relevant to Europe. Lincolns would now only need maybe a very small stockholding of parts that could be monitered by a SAP system to monitor and keep a close watch on the supply and demand of those parts that might not be common to other Fords in Europe.

 

Spares logistics is not the once big No No nightmare for Lincoln it used to be thank to Ford using more and more of Big Al's Boeing type commonality of spare parts.

 

Mercury should also become global, and be used by Ford to supply/adapt all the cars through Ford outlets worldwide that you can't buy in your country now Ford are getting up to speed with commonality of parts & with Fords production lines are becoming more flexible world. So P-71's & Psario's of this world could buy a Mercury Mondeo made in Europe if they so want, and l could have a "Made in the USA" brand new Mercury Mustang and a Mercury F-150 sitting on my driveway which l would prefer to a German made Fiesta which l like a lot but will never buy. Ford would need draw up contract that might mean a few months wait, and a understanding that some Mercury parts that are not common i.e. body panels for a crashed car that may give you a problem from time to time on rare occasions if there is a surge in demand on the small holding of stock held within Europe.

 

If it ever happened l think Mercury would get a pleasant shock and could end up selling exporting 100,000's of Mustangs in Europe every year that were "Made in the USA" creating more jobs & profits Stateside for Ford. Ford should use milk commonality of parts ecoboost engines etc, flexible production lines & use massive Ford global network of dealerships to give Lincoln & Mercury a helping hand & stepping stone in places like Europe until they can become established enough to stand up alone on their own two feet.

 

Lincolns kicking Beamer & Mercs arse in Europe absolutely fab nothing would thrill me more. Mercury Falcons, Mercury Taurus, Mercury F-150, Mercury Mustangs & Mercury Flex for Europe absolutely awesome and Mercury Ka, Mercury Galaxy, Mecury Mondeo for the USA. If folk are willing to pay extra/wait longer and Ford can make a tidy profit from doing it its gotta be a win win for Fords profits & more jobs both sides of the pond with Lincoln/Mercury getting a foothold in Europe & the rest of the world and becoming global for the first time. Wonder what the world would be like today if Uncle Henry had said Ford "no can do" the Model-T in Europe?

[jpd80]

It would be great to see a RWD Lincoln come to Europe and kick BMW & Mercs arse, gotta say l would buy one.

 

Ford already have a massive network of dealers in Europe that they could sell Lincolns through, even if it you had to wait a few months as part of the terms and conditions for a RHD "Made in the USA" Lincoln with the right spec you wanted, gotta say it would be well worth the wait.

What about a Falcon based MKR with a 3.0 V6 diesel option, or an Ecoboost V6 or even a 5.0 V8......

 

We're at that stage when anything is possible.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

What about a Falcon based MKR with a 3.0 V6 diesel option, or an Ecoboost V6 or even a 5.0 V8......

 

We're at that stage when anything is possible.

 

Your awesome Aussie Falcon you have at the moment would kick BMW & Mercs arse in UK, would love a 5.0 V8 myself personally JPD but 3.0 Ecoboost V6 would be more in tune with selling more Ford cars here. If Ford set up Mercury range of cars you can't buy in your own country everywhere in the world, l can't help but think a Aussie made Mercury Falcon would be a massive hit in Europe you would treble your production/profits for Ford downunder overnight, commonality of parts V6 diesel & V6 Ecboost symmetrical RWD drivetrains with common same engine ancillaries, steering components that could be adapted/designed to be fitted/bolted on left or right side of the powerplants, flexibilty of workforce to build LHD/RHD models down the same production line at Ford today makes anything possible these days JPD like you say.

 

We used to have a Grandad (Granada) that out outsold all BMW & Mercs in the UK, it got replaced by a massive Scorpio sales flop that sent ex Grandad buyers packing in their droves to the German carmaker dealerships. It would be nice to see them all come back to Falcons again.

 

Ford used to sell a top of the range flagship RWD boxy Granada massive stationwagon that was as big as an aircraft carrier here, l always thought that would be the car l would want latter in life, It would of fitted in above the Mondeo if it was still around today.

 

A lot of folk in would be prepared to wait a few months to get their hands on a Mercury Falcon of their own spec in Europe (Big Al Stateside is a good example), pay the extra cost for something that is a bit special like the Aussie Falcon knowing that most of the parts were common lets say Mustang - Falcon - Taurus - Mondeo - Fusion - Focus - Lincolns all used the same ecoboost powerplants, starter motors, alternaters etc were the same parts worldwide know that their local Ford dealer has the routine parts already know how to service a V6 ecoboost engine. Put me down for a V6 Mercury Falcon Diesel JPD.

[2b2]

...Mercury Mustang and a Mercury F-150...

not sure how serious you are but

uh No

I'm all for "one world one big BlueOval"

but

Mercury DOES have its own DNA & identity & MISSION

(even if I'm the only one

...one of the very few who know that)

[battyr]

Historically Ford has just made Mercury as re-badged ford to sell in Lincoln dealers. That strategy is dead now.

 

Ford needs to identify exactly want market that Mercury is selling to. Cars like the FWD Cougar only proves that they had picked the wrong market.

 

I would like to think that Ford now has identified a market for Mercury. We will know that either when they announce it or when we see their new lineup.

 

Oh, P.S. Ford needs to find such a market so that they can sell the Mercurys globally.

Edited January 17, 2010 by battyr

[Hugh]

not sure how serious you are but

uh No

I'm all for "one world one big BlueOval"

but

Mercury DOES have its own DNA & identity & MISSION

(even if I'm the only one

...one of the very few who know that)

In general, I agree with you on that statement. What I see what Mercury has now, does not convince me to go there from Ford. If I wanted to upgrade, I would go to Lincoln. I personally don't see the point of Mercury but for the faithful, I wish you luck.

[RichardJensen]

I would like to think that Ford now has identified a market for Mercury.

That happened a few years ago. They've been pursuing it ever since.

[Hugh]

That happened a few years ago. They've been pursuing it ever since.

Great so, who's the head of the brand? What's the market? I'm very interested in hearing what they have to say.

 

I'm been serious not facetious when I say this.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Hugh

[battyr]

That happened a few years ago. They've been pursuing it ever since.

 

So What is the market? Who do they they want to selling to?