New Ranger or lost buyers what does Ford want ??

[V8-X]

Gee, let's think for a minute on what might have happened right after the 2002 model debuted with IRS. I think there might have been a slight problem with tires???

 

The Firestone debacle started it but the move towards CUVs had already started.

 

Yes, a FEW buyers left due to less offroad capabilities. But not enough to make a difference and nowhere close to the number that left for competitor's CUVs.

Actually, the Firestone ordeal was announced and underway before the 2002 model debuted. I had a '99 Explorer and '99 Ranger. Only the Ranger was recalled though since the Explorer had the 16" General tires. And no the move to CUV hadn't really started. You had a very small fraction of manufacturers producing them and their sales were minimal then.

 

And why don't you use my full post, not just what you want to pull from it? I did state many of the sales were soccer moms and the type. But many here in CO still opt for Jeep products more so than other CUV/SUV products, because they still provide some form of off-road capability/durability.

 

Sales of the Explorer were great with the Gen I and II designs (of course was the 90s soccer moms), and we've seen sales tank with the Gen III model. Sure some has to deal with the market and people moving to CUVs, but I would also state based on my experience, a lot of the Explorer sales went out the door when it became less capable off-road.

 

 

Because it would require different styling - the Flex is strictly an urban vehicle by design. The Explorer's rugged appearance is a big part of the appeal along with the utility aspect. The Explorer has more ground clearance, more towing capacity and more off road features. I suspect they've programmed the AWD to work better off road as well.

Why would it require different styling? My F150 is boxy kind of like the Flex. That doesn't make it an "urban" design.

 

And from the camo and teaser shots we've seen of the new Explorer, I'm sorry but there is nothing rugged about it's appearance. And its utility aspects could have easily (and cheaper) been added to the Flex, such as the ground clearance, towing capacity and off-road features. Sure they may have programmed the AWD to work better off-road, but still is not going to work as well as a true 4x4 with both hi & lo ranges and the power split between front/rear wheels.

 

My V8 Explorer has 4WD.

True! My father had an '02 Explorer Limited 4.6L 4x4. Was good a decent vehicle, but other than the added power (coming from a '95 Explorer XLT 4.0L OHV) and amenities, he thought the '95 was a better built and more capable truck.

 

I'll even grant you that Ford could build a true 4WD BOF mid-sized SUV off the T6 platform once they get the Ranger sorted out, but who's going to buy it? You and the other 3 hard core off-roaders?

 

I predict new explorer sales will easily double the 2010 sales.

Plenty of people still around here in CO wanting a mid-size truck that hasn't been neutered. Many of these people have moved away from the current Ranger to the Tacoma because of how long in the tooth the Ranger is and the lack of power train upgrades. It'd sale well in the Rocky Mountain states. People around here have learned from many past blizzards, CUV's can't cut it in those elements. So for the strictly sunny state people, or big city people who don't receive heavy snow, they may not have the need for the extra off-road ability, whether it's true 4WD or the added ground clearance. But for us, the majority of people we know have at least one true 4x4 in case of these conditions.

 

We may see a slight increase in Explorer sales after the launch, depending on the marketing/advertising Ford does. But nothing near double 2010 figures.

[akirby]

We may see a slight increase in Explorer sales after the launch, depending on the marketing/advertising Ford does. But nothing near double 2010 figures.

 

Add this to the "Edge will flop" and "the 5.0 is maxed out" predictions.....................

 

 

You overestimate the off-road/heavy towing/midsized SUV market. How many of the 400K explorer buyers in 2001 do you think bought it to tow more than 5500 lbs or used it for heavy off-roading versus how many bought it as a roomy family hauler?

[V8-X]

Add this to the "Edge will flop" and "the 5.0 is maxed out" predictions.....................

 

 

You overestimate the off-road/heavy towing/midsized SUV market. How many of the 400K explorer buyers in 2001 do you think bought it to tow more than 5500 lbs or used it for heavy off-roading versus how many bought it as a roomy family hauler?

Never said the Edge would be a flop or the 5.0L was maxed. I actually like the Edge and think it fits what a CUV is, not a CUV trying to pretend to be an SUV like the new Explorer is. And the 5.0L, I'm not to familiar with its design and technology, so couldn't weigh in on whether it's maxed or not.

 

Now how well has the Edge sold? And the Flex? And the MKT? and the MKX? And where have the Explorer sales been the last few years? And what exactly makes you think the Explorer sales will double in its first year?

 

Over-estimate the off-road/heavy towing/midsized SUV market? What do you mean? Towing, the Explorer has never been great at and never said it was. Off-road capability has been lacking since 2001, but was comparable to the Grand Cherokee, or just slightly behind in capability. Since 2002, people have forgotten the Explorer as a capable SUV and now simply consider it a boulevard queen. Would be nice if Ford brought back this image (off-road capable), which looks like they will try, but will be a very difficult to sell for those people that know a thing or two about it's foundation.

 

And again, if you would read my post(s), the majority of sales were most likely the soccer mom type. Many were the same around here in the Rockies, but most the people around here like camping, taking trails and like going off-road, even if mild. The majority of soccer moms around here typically drive Crew Cab pickups now, well except for my wife who is looking at the Flex. She knows nothing about cars, just loves the boxy design.

Edited July 19, 2010 by V8-X

[Pioneer]

To which, for the third time, I reply that we will see no substantial sales increase

 

 

I've seen the new Explorer. Sat in it. Played with all the new toys.

 

It will have a substantial sales increase.

[akirby]

Never said the Edge would be a flop or the 5.0L was maxed. I actually like the Edge and think it fits what a CUV is, not a CUV trying to pretend to be an SUV like the new Explorer is. And the 5.0L, I'm not to familiar with its design and technology, so couldn't weigh in on whether it's maxed or not.

 

That wasn't your prediction - those were predictions from others about new products that turned out to be TOTALLY wrong, and I'm saying you're totally wrong about the new Explorer.

 

I say people stopped buying the Explorer because of the Firestone incident plus terrible fuel economy compared to the new competition and a general preference for crossovers for the type of driving that 90% of Explorer buyers were doing. They only do occasional towing and light off-roading (if that). The new Explorer will appeal to all 90% of those former Explorer buyers plus all the current SUV and crossover buyers.

 

The market moved and the Explorer didn't. Will it get back to 400K? Of course not. But it will do soooooo much better than the current one due to styling, features, power and fuel economy.

[silvrsvt]

I still stand by my statement that there wont be a substantial increase in Explorer sales.

 

I sure as hell bet you it does..last year the Explorer only sold 52,000 units last year...I bet it doubles that #

[jpd80]

Wasn't there a person on BON that predicted Edge was going to fail before ever seeing the car?

 

All I would say to skeptics is hold your comments until we see what Ford is offering

and how it's received by the press and buyers before declaring success or failure.

 

Keep an open mind is all I'm saying....

[blksn8k2]

Just a couple of comments: First of all, I have a 2007 Sport Trac that has both AWD and 4x4. The normal operating mode is AWD, all the time. It never uses RWD only unless you temporarily defeat the AWD by pushing a button on the dash. It also has true 4x4 with a 2-speed transfer case that is also engaged by pushing buttons. So I guess the "current" generation of Explorers kind of muddies the waters of some people's concept of what defines what.

 

I expect the new Explorer will have greater appeal to people who don't really need a rugged off-road vehicle that can also tow more than 6k lb and those are basically the same people who would buy one today anyway.

 

The only reason I bought the Sport Trac and not another Ranger was because I wanted a bigger back seat and Ford seems to have some problem with selling a crew cab Ranger. I am sure they make more profit on a Sport Trac or F150 so why bother. I also wanted a more modern design, not something that hadn't really been updated since 1993. Oh, and, again, I have no use for a huge-assed F150. Hopefully if and when Ford does offer another truck smaller than the F150 it will be an even better compromise than the soon to be discontinued Sport Trac.

Edited July 23, 2010 by blksn8k2

[V8-X]

I expect the new Explorer will have greater appeal to people who don't really need a rugged off-road vehicle that can also tow more than 6k lb and those are basically the same people who would buy one today anyway.

Exactly! So where are the increased sales coming from that other people seem to be stating?

[V8-X]

Just a couple of comments: First of all, I have a 2007 Sport Trac that has both AWD and 4x4. The normal operating mode is AWD, all the time. It never uses RWD only unless you temporarily defeat the AWD by pushing a button on the dash. It also has true 4x4 with a 2-speed transfer case that is also engaged by pushing buttons. So I guess the "current" generation of Explorers kind of muddies the waters of some people's concept of what defines what.

Actually, you are incorrect. The Explorer ST has Ford Control Trac, which is your typical full-time 4x4 system. Which basically means when in AWD mode, it is putting all power to the rear wheels until the computer feels a slip, then and only then does it transfer power to the front wheels. So yes the ST does have a true 4x4 set-up, it does not have your conventional AWD system.

 

You can put that power to the ground with the optional Control Trac four-wheel-drive system. If the rear wheels lose traction, the system will automatically divert power to the front wheels.

 

http://www.sportruck.com/news/07sporttrac/2007-Ford-Explorer-Sport-Trac.htm

[akirby]

I expect the new Explorer will have greater appeal to people who don't really need a rugged off-road vehicle that can also tow more than 6k lb and those are basically the same people who would buy one today anyway.

 

Nope. People stopped buying Explorers when more fuel efficient and better riding alternatives appeared - like the Pilot. This puts Ford back in the competition for those buyers that want a 7 passenger vehicle but don't like the Flex or minivans.

[Mackintire]

Nope. People stopped buying Explorers when more fuel efficient and better riding alternatives appeared - like the Pilot. This puts Ford back in the competition for those buyers that want a 7 passenger vehicle but don't like the Flex or minivans.

 

 

 

Going back on topic

 

 

A couple of Australian automotive web sites have commented on a T6 Ranger they saw testing in the US Death Valley. They claimed that the T6 Ranger will be imported into the US.

 

I'm not going to hold my breath on this one, but I can hope.

[jpd80]

Going back on topic

 

 

A couple of Australian automotive web sites have commented on a T6 Ranger they saw testing in the US Death Valley. They claimed that the T6 Ranger will be imported into the US.

I'm not going to hold my breath on this one, but I can hope.

 

Those people don't know what they're talking about,

the death valley mules were both Right Hand drive versions.

[timmm55]

Those people don't know what they're talking about,

the death valley mules were both Right Hand drive versions.

 

I watched the video again, I couldn't clearly see one way or another if it was L or R hand drive.

But there are LHDers around......

 

http://www.caradvice.com.au/52435/ford-ranger-t6-interior-spy-photos/

[J-150]

Exactly! So where are the increased sales coming from that other people seem to be stating?

 

 

 

Conquest sales from Pilot, Highlander, etc

[Moosetang]

Those people don't know what they're talking about,

the death valley mules were both Right Hand drive versions.

Plus, there's Zero chance Ford can pay to import the T6 and pay the Chicken Tax and still turn a profit.

[jpd80]

Plus, there's Zero chance Ford can pay to import the T6 and pay the Chicken Tax and still turn a profit.

Free Trade Agreements.

[J-150]

Free Trade Agreements.

 

 

Automobiles are not within any free trade agreements with Thailand, the country that will make the T6, so it will have a chicken tax.

[Moosetang]

Automobiles are not within any free trade agreements with Thailand, the country that will make the T6, so it will have a chicken tax.

Bingo.

[akirby]

Bingo.

 

No reason Ford can't make U.S. versions of the T6 in the U.S. or Canada (or Mexico).

[jpd80]

Automobiles are not within any free trade agreements with Thailand, the country that will make the T6, so it will have a chicken tax.

Thailand won't be building the T6 Ranger, it is being built in South Africa (and South America).

Edited July 28, 2010 by jpd80

[J-150]

Thailand won't be building the T6 Ranger, it is being built in South Africa (and South America).

 

 

 

Is this new?

 

everything I had read indicated Thailand as being the center of T6 production

[jpd80]

Is this new?

 

everything I had read indicated Thailand as being the center of T6 production

 

No been common knowledge for several years, here's Autoblog and Ford press release -Link

 

Mostly American articles with lots of Blah, blah but no checking facts I'm afraid.

Edited July 29, 2010 by jpd80

[crs2572]

Ford to end production in 2011.

 

 

My link

[Chetter]

There are lots of good points made here both for and against a new, competetive Ranger. I would add one other comment and I have stated this in other Ranger related posts....even if it gets better mileage and can haul more people and cargo, not everyone wants the almighty F150 and the reason is simply because the fricking thing is HUGE. Give me a Dakota sized F100 with four doors and a six foot bed and I will be happy as a pig in....well, you know what.

 

I came across this thread and 'blksn8k2' said what I have been saying to my local Ford dealership for the past couple of years. That is exactly what I want, a crew cab truck with 6ft bed that is about the size of the former Dakota or the current Tacoma with available 4 wheel drive and put the ecoboost engine in it. Just as was said above, I don't need or want anything remotely the size of the current full size trucks that are available by all manufacturers. I don't want to fill up a 30-40 gallon fuel tank even if does get 30mpg, it would cost an average of at least 100.00 or more to fill up a 35 gallon tank which my neighbors F-150 4x4 has. Then there is the wife who uses my truck and she couldn't or wouldn't want to drive, let alone park the current F-150, they are just way toooo big for my liking. I'll pay the money for the truck I want, and as it is right now I am leaning towards the Tacoma when I am ready to buy in the next year or so, I just waiting to see what Ford is going to do about a replacement for the Ranger, if they think I am going into an F-150, then I will be buying a different brand altogether. It would be a shame since I have been a Ranger owner for the past nearly 20 years and my current 98 Ranger has only about 72,000 miles and is still like new, but I really need the crew cab as well as the 6ft bed since I use my truck as a truck quite often, I pick up my grandkids and it's getting a bit cramped and can only handle 2 at one time.