Ford Reviewing Lincoln

[armadamaster]

I bet you'll also say Lincoln dies with the Town Car.....

 

I'm almost there, but not quite yet, several more months of D3 platform FAIL outta the MKS might get me over the hump though.

[RichardJensen]

I know you see the Compact Lincoln as a very hard sell in the US

And it's not based on comparing MSRPs to Ford products.

 

It's based on the sales of tiny luxury cars from BMW etc.

 

They sell at a fractional rate of their true entry level siblings---and I see no reason why you should expect a compact Lincoln to have a take rate of say 75% of the MKZ, when nobody else can manage better than 25% of their true entry level model.

 

Here's the issue:

 

You don't want people buying the baby car because of price, which means you're going to be aiming for ATPs in the general vicinity of the starting price of your entry level product.

 

Now at that price point, what's the value proposition to your buyer?

 

Fuel economy?

 

A Lincoln MKC that gets 33mpg combined vs. an MKS that gets 26 combined might sound impressive, but that's a total fuel cost difference of a couple hundred bucks over the course of a year. Is a luxury buyer seriously going to pick a compact over a midsize because it'll save him a few bucks on fuel? Maybe one fill up every month--maybe?

 

And IMO, the fuel economy gap between the midsizers and compacts isn't going to widen.

 

---

 

Basically, other car companies have proven that teeny weeny luxury cars don't sell. They've demonstrated it repeatedly and (IMO) conclusively.

 

It's the height of stupidity to assume that somehow things will be different for =you= than they are for everyone else.

[johnnyb82]

1,700 + Mercury dealers. What does it cost to wind up the franchises?

 

Mercury appears to make money with the Milan, and as RJ has pointed out, Mercury appeals to people that don't buy Fords. With fresh product, the brand is probably viable and should be targeting Buick, IMHO. This leaves Lincoln to be further up-scale.

 

Is it possible that is it not so much that Mercury attracts different kinds of people but rather than it attracts different would be Ford buyers? The product mix is far different, so of course the average Mercury buyer is going to be different than the average Ford buyer. Also, the focus has been on attracting women. So much so that Mercury has become a "woman's car brand." Women are happy to drive men's cars. Vice versa doesn't work out as well.

[Footballfan]

I hear "lets' take Lincoln upmarket"...which ideally sounds good on paper, but when Ford takes something "upmarket" it means raising the price "upmarket' thats it. It's not offering anything different than Ford, to warrant "upmarket", other than slapping a heftier pricetag. The MKS is still a Taurus, the MKZ is still a Fusion. People will have a hard time paying for an Upmarket Ford if it's essentially, still a Ford. So when Ford does decide to have a dedicated RWD platform for Lincoln, then "upmarket pricing" will be accepted.

 

Agreed on the RWD model. It seems to me based on what i have read in the news that there is no real direction for Lincoln right now. My opinion: take the next-gen Mustang platform and dedicate it to only the Mustang and Lincoln.

[Footballfan]

Ok, here's what I've been able to piece together from a few different sources (including a few former BON'ers)

 

The reviews of both Mercury and Lincoln were ordered by a few executives who see the success of the high-trim Ford products and thinks that these trims make Lincoln, and especially Mercury, irrelevant. There are a few who see extra brands as a distraction, and those execs want to take the capital that would fund Mercury development and push it into the new "Titanium" trimmed Fords. Mercury has always had a place because it attracted enough sales of people who wouldn't have otherwise bought a Ford. With the new Ford models (Edge, Fusion, Flex, Taurus), those customers who wouldn't have considered the Ford brand a few years ago suddenly are. Import conquests are "through the roof."

 

With Lincoln, they're seeing much higher transaction prices, even with a rather lackluster lineup. Execs want to keep pushing Lincoln further upmarket , since people are showing that they're willing to put down the cash for them.

 

So, these reviews have left a few options on the table:

 

-Keep the current plan in place. Give Mercury B and C segment premium vehicles with unique styling and features, and give Lincoln more upscale products from the C/D segment and larger. (this plan is still in place, and the Tracer is still on track)

 

-Eliminate Mercury, Invest heavily into the Titanium trim line for Ford and introduce 2 C segment vehicles to Lincoln (the MKEscape and the MKC). The 2 new Lincolns would "replace" Mercury's footprint in the showroom, so there shouldn't be much noise from dealers.

 

-Eliminate both Lincoln and Mercury, paying to buy out L/M dealers. This would remove the "cap" from Ford and allow them to push the brand as far up market as the wished to go. No more withholding features from Fords to "save" them for Lincoln.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd put down cash that Mercury isn't going anywhere, but I'm glad that they're weighing all their options and seeing what's best for the company.

 

Your second to the last paragraph is the nightmare scenario, but I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility. Look at Europe- Ford has cars for all price ranges, and Europeans do not seem to mind paying Lincoln prices for Ford products. Hopefully Ford is not becomming the American version of Huyndai. Look at the Genisis- super car and super reviews, but a failure in the market. Why? Well the Genisis is still a Huyndai.

[jpd80]

My opinion only:

Ford should stop pretending that Lincoln is a luxury brand that can compete head on with the likes of BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz, Jaguar and such. It competes more with Lexus and Cadillac, two companies who also lack that European luxury snob appeal....

 

If anything Lincoln should become the new Mercury and be positioned above Titanium Fords and start attracting buyers who have graduated from domestic and Asian brands instead of trying to attracts the snobs to slum it in a Lincoln....

There's a good space for the in-betweeners to play in that that lies just above full line brands and just below true luxury makes, that's where Lincoln should be positioned.

 

Think about a reasonably full line of cars and Utilities positioned between $26K and $55K, a kind of American Volvo that strikes a note with people as being true quality domestic products. That's where the battle is, not with luxury brands....

 

Also,

if you reposition Lincoln, you have less trouble convincing Mercury/Lincoln dealers to come on board with the plans as they too have to survive or combine with Ford dealerships. If all of the above was done properly, I think Ford would successfully position Ford and Lincoln in their true markets and reap the benefits of not owning true luxury brands, something that has burned them badly in the past decade....

Edited May 29, 2010 by jpd80

[rmc523]

1,700 + Mercury dealers. What does it cost to wind up the franchises?

 

Mercury appears to make money with the Milan, and as RJ has pointed out, Mercury appeals to people that don't buy Fords. With fresh product, the brand is probably viable and should be targeting Buick, IMHO. This leaves Lincoln to be further up-scale.

 

Most of those Mercury franchises are also Lincoln franchises, so you may not have to wind up all of them.

 

No matter what happens to Mercury, I do not see Lincoln going anywhere.

[twintornados]

Here is a radical idea that i am sure I will get flamed for...

 

If you want to save Mercury, Ford needs to eliminate the "Titanium" trim level from the value "core" line of Ford vehicles. Mercury would be a "Titanium" line only....only, on a Mercury it is called "Premier". Titanium can live on in the pick up truck side since there is no Mercury or Lincoln equivalent. Move the "Titanium" label to Mercury and dump "Premier" sounds to communistic to me anyway.....

 

Ford is always supposed to be the value leader line....why on earth would I buy a "Titanium" level Fusion and look like every other Fusion driver when I can have a more exclusive ride in a Milan. The MKZ needs to be re-done on a rear drive platform ala four door Mustang with exclusive engine bay choices.

 

In my personal case...my Fusion fit the bill for me in 2006 when I bought it new....well, now it is 2010 and I am looking to go upmarket, only problem is....to me the new Fusion looks too "boy-racer" to me....the Milan on the other hand has a classy mix of elegance and flair that appeal to me. I am not ready to step into an MKZ as of yet....I haven't "gotten there" yet...and besides...if I show up in a Lincoln, the ex will automatically want to drag me back to court thinking I hit the jackpot and want more money out of me.....

[2b2]

^ & ^^ seems I have more faith in Lincoln than either of you two

OR

some-to-many-to-most people at FoMoCo

 

dunno which way the cause of this goes

- whether I can believe in Lincoln "reaching higher" because I'm so certain about Merc's potential

or

- whether I can be certain about Mercury because I can remember when Lincoln was "Presidential" and am absolutely SURE they can do it again

 

conversely

I believe that without Mercury, Lincoln will not be long for this world

if for no other reason,

because a FAILURE OF VISION & IMAGINATION like the death of Mercury

will INFECT the entire FoMoCo organization with a possibly FATAL defeatism.

[twintornados]

I still don't believe that Ford will kill off Mercury....it has long been known as the division that Edsel built.....he is highly revered within the Ford family and to kill off Mercury is a slap in the face of his legacy to FoMoCo......

Edited May 30, 2010 by twintornados

[Footballfan]

My opinion only:

Ford should stop pretending that Lincoln is a luxury brand that can compete head on with the likes of BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz, Jaguar and such. It competes more with Lexus and Cadillac, two companies who also lack that European luxury snob appeal....

 

If anything Lincoln should become the new Mercury and be positioned above Titanium Fords and start attracting buyers who have graduated from domestic and Asian brands instead of trying to attracts the snobs to slum it in a Lincoln....

There's a good space for the in-betweeners to play in that that lies just above full line brands and just below true luxury makes, that's where Lincoln should be positioned.

 

Think about a reasonably full line of cars and Utilities positioned between $26K and $55K, a kind of American Volvo that strikes a note with people as being true quality domestic products. That's where the battle is, not with luxury brands....

 

Also,

if you reposition Lincoln, you have less trouble convincing Mercury/Lincoln dealers to come on board with the plans as they too have to survive or combine with Ford dealerships. If all of the above was done properly, I think Ford would successfully position Ford and Lincoln in their true markets and reap the benefits of not owning true luxury brands, something that has burned them badly in the past decade....

 

The thing is, I do not think most people even think that Lincoln competes with Cadillac and Lexus. Right now, Lincoln is more on par with Acura. The reason for this? Lincoln really does not have a signature car. Cadillac is known for its CTS, Lexus for its LS 460. Right now, what is Lincoln's signature car- the Town car that is dying? The MKZ which is a closely modified version of the Fusion? Or the MKT- a nice vehichle, but overpriced? Lincoln needs a styling direction and a signature car. My idea? Come back with the Continental with distinct, retro styling, RWD, and available in Coupe and Sedan models. Position it near or slightly below the CTS and BMW 3 series, and make it your volume model. I think this car would fit in nicley between the "near luxury" and the "luxury" segments.

[Footballfan]

^ & ^^ seems I have more faith in Lincoln than either of you two

OR

some-to-many-to-most people at FoMoCo

 

dunno which way the cause of this goes

- whether I can believe in Lincoln "reaching higher" because I'm so certain about Merc's potential

or

- whether I can be certain about Mercury because I can remember when Lincoln was "Presidential" and am absolutely SURE they can do it again

 

conversely

I believe that without Mercury, Lincoln will not be long for this world

if for no other reason,

because a FAILURE OF VISION & IMAGINATION like the death of Mercury

will INFECT the entire FoMoCo organization with a possibly FATAL defeatism.

 

I agree! There does not appear to be much of a vision now for Lincoln as well.

[Moosetang]

I've said it for years and I'll say it again: Mercury dies with the Grand Marquis.

And still nobody cares.

[Pioneer]

Ford is always supposed to be the value leader line....

 

 

Ford is not the "value" leader anymore. Hyundai and Kia are. According to people on this site, Ford isn't chasing that market anymore (stupid) and needs to move upmarket.

 

Bye bye Merc.

[AlRozzi]

Ford is not the "value" leader anymore. Hyundai and Kia are. According to people on this site, Ford isn't chasing that market anymore (stupid) and needs to move upmarket.

 

Bye bye Merc.

 

Ford is not marketing to the value market due a relatively high cost structure (Hyundai's has among the world's lowest cost structure) and is the world's most indebted car company. They have no choice but to get as much money as they can for their cars - they must sell you all the features with every model (you want fries with that) due to a dire situation. Discounting, incentives and rental units won't work right now. Therefore, Mercury sales would be a wise choice because they can get even more for a LM marketed vehicle.

[WC Man]

I guess we can all agree that the current Lincoln plan, whatever the heck it is, is not working. Still, salvaging Mercury will not help Lincoln. If Lincoln is to survive as a luxury marquee, it, not Mercury, must compete with C-class, 3-series, TSX, & IS. Personally, I don't see the brand surviving as it doesn't seem to have any kind of market appeal. Maybe Ford could cancel it and re-introduce the brand at a later date if the market warrants it. How many independent Lincoln Mercury Lots are left anyhow? They disappeared here several years ago.

[akirby]

I guess we can all agree that the current Lincoln plan, whatever the heck it is, is not working. Still, salvaging Mercury will not help Lincoln. If Lincoln is to survive as a luxury marquee, it, not Mercury, must compete with C-class, 3-series, TSX, & IS. Personally, I don't see the brand surviving as it doesn't seem to have any kind of market appeal. Maybe Ford could cancel it and re-introduce the brand at a later date if the market warrants it. How many independent Lincoln Mercury Lots are left anyhow? They disappeared here several years ago.

 

But we haven't seen what Ford intends to do with Lincoln because all their resources have been spent on Ford the last 3 years with the new Taurus, Fiesta, Focus, Explorer, 2010 CD3s, new F150 and Superduty and drivetrains.

 

I want to see what they can do with a full court press on Lincoln. Mercury will have to wait if it survives.

[twintornados]

I had always thought that "The Plan" for Lincoln (and Mercury) was as follows....

 

Lincoln:

 

MKZ moves to a RWD platform ala CTS, with an MKR stablemate in coupe cabriolet form.

 

MKX grows in size to replace departing Mountaineer

 

MKS continues on and adds a 6" stretch version for the "black car" market (call the 6" stretch version Town Car)

 

Ditto for MKT.

 

Navigator continues with updates.

 

 

 

Mercury:

 

Tracer comes out with upscale accoutrements because who on earth would buy a Focus "Platinum".

 

Two door version of the Focus coupe cabriolet as the new Sable.

 

Station wagon version of Tracer.

 

Milan that continues on as a stable mate to Fusion but is allowed to get better content now that MKZ has gone RWD.

 

Milan wagon.

 

Mariner version of Kuga.

 

Mountaineer name returns on a stable mate of Edge. (remember, MKX went to a longer chassis for more room)

 

Finally, Grand Marquis returns on a 6" stretch platform of Taurus with styling cues that make it completely distinct from Taurus.

[jpd80]

Rear wheel drive plans were shelved at the beginning of 2008 and Mulally came out saying that Front wheel Drive was Ford's future in North America....

 

Falcon will remain a regional platform for however long buyers want it and provided costs are under the radar. Doubling with Mustang for power train supply is an effective way of reducing overall costs...

[Noah Harbinger]

What exactly is it that drives loyalty to a brand like this? Is it just because it has a cool name? It certainly can't be because of the product quality, because with Mercury gone, all Fords will be moving into that product quality level.

[Pioneer]

What exactly is it that drives loyalty to a brand like this?

 

Chemical unbalances in the brain.

[2b2]

What exactly is it that drives loyalty to a brand like this? Is it just because it has a cool name? It certainly can't be because of the product quality, because with Mercury gone, all Fords will be moving into that product quality level.

imho Mercury inadvertently tapped into some basic human archetypes (much to Ford's dismay)

 

part of it goes back to

- Rebel Without a Cause

&

- the Sign of the Cat

 

perhaps even more pertains directly to Merc's middle position within F-M-L

which can be likened to the Goldilocks story - the middle choice is "juuuuuust right"

 

Merc can also be seen as being "caught" between Ford & Lincoln - somewhat like Cinderella is caught between the evil stepmother and ugly stepsisters - eventually saved by her prince

so

if you buy a Mercury, you're automatically "a bit better than" a knight in shining armor

 

let's recap briefly

James Dean - COUGAR: the wild west & Live-Free - Goldilocks - Cinderella - handsome/charming prince...

...it's inevitable - - the best Ford can hope for is for their customers to say "My car is Almost a Mercury" :D

 

 

now PLEASE, FORD, get Lincoln the he!! out of Mercury's way!!!

Edited May 31, 2010 by 2b2

[RichardJensen]

What exactly is it that drives loyalty to a brand like this?

People aren't rational. You can rationally analyze and attempt to capitalize on buyer irrationality, but you simply cannot explain it.

 

I can describe what an elephant looks like, but I cannot tell you what an elephant is.

[twintornados]

Chemical unbalances in the brain.

Pioneer...usually, I will listen and understand your point of view, but this time??

 

Jackass.... :shades:

[Pioneer]

Jackass....

 

Um, duh?