Grand C-Max First Drive

[Deanh]

Only problem is that the Car Mags will scream, no power sliding doors, what were they thinking, and it will cloud people's perception of the vehicle. Give the people what they want, and Ford will succeed. Telling them they are wusses and to open the door themselves, won't sell cars. I do not see what the big deal is.

 

Anyway I think the vehicle looks nice, looks very upscale.

easy, you dont tell em they are wuss"s and show them how easy it is.....what next ":How come the flip and fold middle and rear seats arent power? "...my point is where do you stop in the name of "bang for the buck".....if we ctaer to every questionable whim we get $35000 C-max's?...THATS more of a death knoll than excluding the questionable ( well at least to me obviously ) worth of certain upgrades....

Edited October 6, 2010 by Deanh

[Deanh]

Only problem is that the Car Mags will scream, no power sliding doors, what were they thinking, and it will cloud people's perception of the vehicle. Give the people what they want, and Ford will succeed. Telling them they are wusses and to open the door themselves, won't sell cars. I do not see what the big deal is.

 

Anyway I think the vehicle looks nice, looks very upscale.

it is the car mags game plan to fins a scab to pick on, on every vehicle barring Hondas and BMW's....

[RichardJensen]

power sliders will not decide the fate of this vehicle.

Exclude them and you can exclude upper trim buyers. Exclude upper trim buyers and you kill this vehicle.

 

And Dean, unless that's a pedal bike, you're still a wuss.

[hawaiicarguy]

easy, you dont tell em they are wuss"s and show them how easy it is.....what next ":How come the flip and fold middle and rear seats arent power? "...my point is where do you stop in the name of "bang for the buck".....if we ctaer to every questionable whim we get $35000 C-max's?...THATS more of a death knoll than excluding the questionable ( well at least to me obviously ) worth of certain upgrades....

 

I understand what you are saying, but what may be questionable to you, maybe something that has a high value to the customer. I am sure Ford is going to give a few of these to customers to check out, and if they say we want power doors, then I am sure Ford will give it to them. If not, then the issue is moot. People will end up deciding what they want to pay for certain options. The worst thing Ford could do is tell a customer they don't need something, when they are willing to pay for it, option wise. If it is reasonable, and people will pay, then why not. Power doors, are not outlandish. If people wanted a stripper pole in the center of the van, then you might say Sorry, we cannot help you. I mean we have auto parking now, fridges in the cars, all sorts of telematics, one more motor in the door, is not a big deal.

 

Just my two cents.

[hawaiicarguy]

it is the car mags game plan to fins a scab to pick on, on every vehicle barring Hondas and BMW's....

 

Maybe but people read them.....whats worse is that you do not want Consumer Reports complaining about it.

[Deanh]

Exclude them and you can exclude upper trim buyers. Exclude upper trim buyers and you kill this vehicle.

 

And Dean, unless that's a pedal bike, you're still a wuss.

LMAO....sticks and sliders may break my bones...but names wil never...................your ( albeit edited ) quote is now on my sig just to remind me once they arrive here to keep an eye on customers reaction....m curious for sure how "important" your hot button may be, I can see those with deeper pockets perhaps desiring power sliders in the higher end models...but mainstream i dont think it wiill be an issue. If its an option on midline models and it carries my estimated cost, it will be interesting to see the take % Personally for the cash if it was me, id spend the $ on an upgraded stereo, so i guess its dependent on what one deems preferable....I have NO issues opening a door, NONE....

[Deanh]

I understand what you are saying, but what may be questionable to you, maybe something that has a high value to the customer. I am sure Ford is going to give a few of these to customers to check out, and if they say we want power doors, then I am sure Ford will give it to them. If not, then the issue is moot. People will end up deciding what they want to pay for certain options. The worst thing Ford could do is tell a customer they don't need something, when they are willing to pay for it, option wise. If it is reasonable, and people will pay, then why not. Power doors, are not outlandish. If people wanted a stripper pole in the center of the van, then you might say Sorry, we cannot help you. I mean we have auto parking now, fridges in the cars, all sorts of telematics, one more motor in the door, is not a big deal.

 

Just my two cents.

I'm quite sure ford will recruit several study groups and get it right.....I'm not exactly dis-agreeing w Rich, especially when mentioning the people opting for the higher ticket C-max's...to them it most certainly will be an issue....I'm talking the mid-stream MEAt of the market. ford will ultimately decide and in them i have faith...after all, i have sold a BUNCH of Flex's. and i never heard ONE complaint about LACK of sliders...anyonme remember THAT uproar?....

[RichardJensen]

an option on midline models and it carries my estimated cost,

Power sliding doors are STANDARD on the mid-level SXT Caravan.

 

If you spend over $25k on a minivan in the US you get power sliding doors, no questions asked.

 

And I expect $25k will be the 'meat' of the market for the US C-Max.

Edited October 6, 2010 by RichardJensen

[Deanh]

Power sliding doors are STANDARD on the mid-level SXT Caravan.

 

If you spend over $25k on a minivan in the US you get power sliding doors, no questions asked.

 

And I expect $25k will be the 'meat' of the market for the US C-Max.

do you really think this will compete with a Caravan?...........maybe price wise ( after rebates...because the caravan needs em )...and really you may be jumping the gun...i'm sure if Ford deems it a necessary item they will show their face....regardless of my opinion....personally it wouldnt effect my decision in the least...

[RichardJensen]

do you really think this will compete with a Caravan?

Just pointing out that people expect power doors on minivans. Just like they expect power locks on sedans.

[Deanh]

Just pointing out that people expect power doors on minivans. Just like they expect power locks on sedans.

perhaps...but i will say this, even though its a different beast...i havent had ANYONE ask for that option on decked Transit connects....and FYI, we are the #1 Transit connect dealer in Orange County. And yes its a different beast, but then again i think no more than the Caravan is to the C-max....

[papilgee4evaeva]

And yes its a different beast, but then again i think no more than the Caravan is to the C-max....

Key point there.

 

The Grand C-Max should be called a mini-minivan. At best, it's the reincarnation of the compact van from days past. Most of the "mini"vans of today would swallow the Grand C-Max.

[sullynd]

perhaps...but i will say this, even though its a different beast...i havent had ANYONE ask for that option on decked Transit connects....and FYI, we are the #1 Transit connect dealer in Orange County. And yes its a different beast, but then again i think no more than the Caravan is to the C-max....

 

The difference is kids. How many people are trying to get their two year old and four year old into their carseats in the Transit Connect?

[SparcEE]

Mazda coined the 5 as a "Multi Activity Vehicle". I own one and never call it a minivan and neither does my family who laughed when we bought it. However, when you figured what I paid, what I can do, and a reasonable cost over ownership I'm the one laughing. My '06 needs another auto trans gear (4sp vs. 5sp which they did in '08) for highway and it's a bit noisy compared to my 2010 Fusion...however, I like the looks and the sporty handling. Too bad Mazda killed the design with their wave on the side, but won't matter as I will have another choice with the C-Max.

 

Not sure how many people will be cross shopping a mini^2-van from a minivan...I agree there shouldn't be significant overlap, but comparing it to a Chrysler minivan that can be had on the cheap and during firesales isn't a fair comparison. The people I know who buy Chrysler vans are buying them because they are cheap and hold a lot of stuff...these are the same folks who would jump ship to the next cheaper thing. Why do people pay so much for VW's?

 

SparcEE

[Biker16]

Power sliding doors are STANDARD on the mid-level SXT Caravan.

 

If you spend over $25k on a minivan in the US you get power sliding doors, no questions asked.

 

And I expect $25k will be the 'meat' of the market for the US C-Max.

 

 

The Odyssey starts at 27.5k and tops out at 43k

 

the grand caravan starts at 25k and tops out at 35k

 

This is not rocket science, we have been successful marketing higher content small cars against lower content larger cars.

 

There is less meat for the C-max. It's a much smaller niche than the Focus. it will span 19.5k to 25k. not the massive 17k-25k of the Focus.

you will not see a S or Titanium C-max, it will only be SE and SEL.

[sullynd]

Is the Grand C-Max longer than the Mazda5? We tried to look at a Mazda5 and I literally did not fit, no way to get enough legroom.

[RichardJensen]

higher content

Like, oh, say, power sliding doors?

 

Nah. They don't have it in Europe, so it's not important to American consumers.

[Biker16]

Like, oh, say, power sliding doors?

 

Nah. They don't have it in Europe, so it's not important to American consumers.

where is the moderator,

 

no one but you cares about power siding doors.

 

that fact is you can't get power sliding doors on a caravan for under 26k.

 

To compete directly with a larger minivan is foolish, we know better. being different allows us to keep a different pricing structure, one that allows us to be profitable.

[suv_guy_19]

Richard, you're really not making any sense. I'm not sure that many Americans understand the small car segment, since they haven't been bought in any numbers in comparison to other vehicles. To the market for this car, power sliders won't be an issue. This product is not generally aimed at the minivan market, just as the Focus is not aimed at the Fusion market.

[ANTAUS]

With the introduction of the Fiesta, and now Focus we have seen that people are willing to pay a premium for a better package. Having a small 'economy" car doesn't and shouldn't be your sacrifying comfort and luxury. Other automakers have had similar products. Traditionally the Jetta being subcompact demonstrated that, and the luxury interior was able to win over people..,.its just, ownership with a VW will make anyone cut their veins. In the case of the Focus Max, it'll give people an alternative, and they can vote with their checkbook.I can vouche for 3 Mazda5 owners I know that bought it because they were on a budget and it was the only vehicle (not counting the Kia Rondo because thats a joke) that offered 6-7 seating under $20K.

[NLPRacing]

I haven't seen Richard this worked up since Mercury was canceled. The (Grand) C-Max may succeed, it may fail. But the lack of power sliders won't be the reason. This is a 3 row CUV with sliders, it is NOT a minivan. Nobody complains about the lack of sliders on the Mazda5 and I doubt anybody will complain about their omission on the C-Max. From what I see, the C-Max improves on the Mazda5 (better fuel efficiency, more room, etc.) and will be available at more dealers. It should do okay, even if we have to open the slider manually like a sucker! If it's nicer than the Mazda5 and is close on price, the next company car we buy may just be one of these. And our fat, old salesman will have to open their the sliders without help.

[RichardJensen]

no one but you cares about power siding doors.

Right. You just watch every rag from here to Los Angeles rip on the Grand C-Max for offering a power liftgate and no power sliders, for offering leather and no power sliders, for offering nav and no power sliders, for offering "stowable seating" and no power sliders.

 

This thing's got a power liftgate for cryin' out loud. You think people aren't going to ASK about power doors? And then what? The salesman pulls up his printout of excuses offered up on this website and tries them out on the customer until he finds one that sticks?

 

"Uh, let me see, they're not that heavy"

 

"But it's difficult for me to open the door with my hands full."

 

"Uh, it would be too expensive."

 

"You've already shown me a model with leather seats and a power liftgate, how much more expensive could it get?"

 

"Uh, they don't have power sliders in Europe."

 

"We're not in Europe, are we?"

 

"Uh, it's not like you get power sliders on a Traverse."

 

"A Traverse is also bigger than this thing. By the way, the Grand Caravan we looked at has power doors."

 

"Uh, this vehicle does not compete with the Grand Caravan."

 

"You wanna bet? I can go buy a Grand Caravan right now for what I'm ready to spend on this thing."

 

C'mon. You tell any minivan mom that she can't have what she wants in a minivan and you've just lost a customer. End of story.

Edited October 7, 2010 by RichardJensen

[akirby]

Right. You just watch every rag from here to Los Angeles rip on the Grand C-Max for offering a power liftgate and no power sliders, for offering leather and no power sliders, for offering nav and no power sliders, for offering "stowable seating" and no power sliders.

 

This thing's got a power liftgate for cryin' out loud. You think people aren't going to ASK about power doors? And then what? The salesman pulls up his printout of excuses offered up on this website and tries them out on the customer until he finds one that sticks?

 

"Uh, let me see, they're not that heavy"

 

"But it's difficult for me to open the door with my hands full."

 

"Uh, it would be too expensive."

 

"You've already shown me a model with leather seats and a power liftgate, how much more expensive could it get?"

 

"Uh, they don't have power sliders in Europe."

 

"We're not in Europe, are we?"

 

"Uh, it's not like you get power sliders on a Traverse."

 

"A Traverse is also bigger than this thing."

 

"Well, why don't you go buy one of those instead."

 

C'mon. You tell any minivan mom that she can't have what she wants in a minivan and you've just lost a customer. End of story.

 

But these aren't minivan customers - that's the point. This will sell because it's smaller and CHEAPER than a minivan or SUV or CUV. This is just a bigger Focus hatchback with a 3rd row. Lack of power sliding doors will not be an issue, even with the car rags.

[RichardJensen]

But these aren't minivan customers - that's the point.

They are buying a minivan. Therefore they are minivan customers. And they are certainly not buying this because it's cheaper than a minivan, as you can get a considerably larger minivan (e.g. a Caravan SXT) with power sliders for a nearly identical price.

 

And anyone who thinks that the car rags won't make an issue of this must be suffering from an incredibly short memory, as last I checked, car rags make an issue out of EVERYTHING. "Ford Fiesta. Not practical enough, that's why we think the Fit is a better small car." "Ford Fiesta. Not sporty enough, that's why we think the Mazda2 is a better small car."

 

Rest assured, if Ford serves up a cooked to order shortcoming on a silver platter, the rags won't refuse it.

[Chester]

But these aren't minivan customers - that's the point. This will sell because it's smaller and CHEAPER than a minivan or SUV or CUV. This is just a bigger Focus hatchback with a 3rd row. Lack of power sliding doors will not be an issue, even with the car rags.

 

Yep. I see no good reason to have power sliders on this. No reason at all. The lift gate is different. That's what you would want to open anyway with your hands full. Even that is pushing it. This isn't going to compete heads up with the larger Minivans. Sure, some of the upper priced models will encroach into the larger minivan market, but you will be getting leather, nav etc. Things you wont get in the 26k minivan.

 

My thinking is like this: For 26k you can get this with all these cool option like leather, MyFord Touch and Sync. And you also get a much better driving car that makes good gas mileage and can haul 7 people in a crunch. No one in their right mind would pass on that just to get power sliders. The comparable Dodge would be a budget mobile.