FordBuyer Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 The Edge is one of Ford's most successful products in the last decade, why on Earth is this up for debate? The Flex, as beloved as it, really hasn't met expectations and probably isn't a sustainable product once it comes down to investing in a successor. The Edge and Escape are very different products, both in size, pricing, packaging, economy, refinement, and features. Keep in mind that Ford's entry into this segment was introduced via Lincoln as the Aviator/MKX, this vehicle was primarily a Lexus RX fighter. Ford is somewhat unique in this approach which means they have this 5-seat segment well covered. This is one of the most important and growing segments in the industry and Ford is the only company VERY well positioned in all corners of it. I'm amazed competitors haven't done more, especially Chevy which seems to feel one-size fits all. The Edge's primary competition is the Nissan Murano and Chevy Equinox...perhaps the Toyota Venza as well. But nobody really takes on the Edge directly, which has always been surprising to me. In my view, the overcrowding theme is coming because the lines have greatly blurred between what an SUV is and how it's different from a CUV. It used to be a CUV was car based and FWD and SUV was body on frame, RWD, and basically truck based. The Escape has always been car based and FWD, but Ford is marketing as an SUV. Ditto for new Explorer. But Ford again is marketing it as an SUV when in reality it's a CUV. So now everthing is jumbled together and rather confusing. The average consumer who knows little about cars probably buys into the marketing hype, but the rest who do take pride in doing their homework know better. The landscape is now mostly a bunch of FWD CUV's crowded together looking very much alike with virtually same design cues and limited capabilities as compared to the previous generation RWD SUV's. They do get better fuel mileage, but in most cases only marginal as they are still very heavy vehicles with better aerodynamics and 6 speed autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 The Explorer is more closely aimed at the Highlander and the Edge the Venza (Or rather the Venza aimed at the Edge). Ford does not really have a 4Runner competitor, and you could argue the Flex being aimed at the Sienna. I know, I tried to closely match the vehicle as defined as roll, or what each company sees as it's competitor in it's respected segment. Its like the Kia Sorrento bragging about it having the most HP of any SUV in it's class, yet THEY define what THEY believe their class is. Obviously, its not the same as the Edge, or the Explorer according to their ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Is that all for an oil change on a Bimmer? Jeeesh. I believe Mobil 1 oil is like $11/quart and God knows how much an oil filter is. Add in labor charge and should be able to get by on one oil change/year assuming normal driving conditions and miles. Porsche dealers are charing $330 for H6 oil changes as they take a little over 8 quarts of Mobil 1 synthetic oil. What a deal! And if you overfill you get Rear Main Seal and Air Oil Separator issues that are way more expensive. The joy of owning exotic vehicles. I guess I should point out that ALL maintenance for the BWM is free for the first 50,000/4 years..... This includes all fluids and consumable products like break pads, windshield wipers, bulbs, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I'll echo what others have said on this thread. I think Ford would be crazy to drop the Edge. Not only does it sell very well, but I think there is strong loyalty to the Edge nameplate as well. The first generation seemed to capture quite a few conquest sales and now it looks like this new generation is keeping those folks as well as gaining even more people that are new to Ford. I know I see tons of the new Edge in this part of country. It also appears that the individuals that buy the new Edge around here tend to be of a higher income level and thus seem to feel the Edge is sort of like a status symbol. It may not be a BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus, but I think these people look at the new Edge as being technology advanced, high quality, and of a premium nature for the money. Plus, it is just sporty enough and capable enough for what these people need in a CUV. I think Ford hit the "sweet spot" with the Edge and consumers are rewarding it with their purchases. The Flex, on the other hand, seems to be questionable. Right now, it does fill a nice niche and the people that own them seem to like them, so I'd keep it going and see how it turns out. As long as it isn't costing Ford money, I think it can continue. But, I have to wonder how long it will last in that lineup, now with the new Explorer sharing floor space. If Ford can keep both models going on a solid pace, I think it is a win-win for everybody. Short term, I'd keep the Flex. Long term, I just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Since the collapse of small trucks and station wagons, there's now a need for more variety in Utilities, some see Ford's SUV and CUV line up as "overcrowded" but that's just Ford going after a very diverse market. With the exception of Flex , Escape, Edge and Explorer are all selling well, even the Expedition's sales have recovered. A lot of Flex's sales problem is lack of buyer awareness, I'm pretty sure sales would climb with some push advertising.. Edited April 30, 2011 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I dont think Fords SUV/CUV offerings are over crowded. The market will continue to become more fragmented, so we'll have variations of different vehicles, and considering how theres an emphansize of platform sharing, it can all work out if leveraged correctly. I believe a Fiesta based Ecosport would work here as well, I'm sure the next Escape/Kuga will be priced a bit higher allowing for a smaller entry. A more inexpensive "lifestyle CUV/SUV" like maybe a Bronco, I would be ok with, maybe "C" based? The Flex's future will come into play at the point that the platform is either killed, or receives substantial redesign. The math will be done then to see if it's something they can continue, so it's fate is currently being written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) What about an Explorer EL using the Flex's longer wheelbase, would it be a success or a flop? Production could stay at OAP but the sales would then be adding to Explorer numbers.... Edited April 30, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 What about an Explorer EL using the Flex's longer wheelbase, would it be a success or a flop? I was thinking in the other direction.....chop about 6"-8" from a Flex, give it either suicide rear doors or sliders and viola....SWB Flex.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) I was thinking in the other direction.....chop about 6"-8" from a Flex, give it either suicide rear doors or sliders and viola....SWB Flex.... Wow, that's a very interesting idea,.. A lot of possibilities there with a flexible frame, the opportunity for rationalization of CD3S, CD4 Utility and D3 platforms by sharing common framing must be tempting. It seems possible if those bodies sit on wheelbases between 111" and 118". Edited April 30, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Since the collapse of small trucks and station wagons, there's now a need for more variety in Utilities, some see Ford's SUV and CUV line up as "overcrowded" but that's just Ford going after a very diverse market. With the exception of Flex , Escape, Edge and Explorer are all selling well, even the Expedition's sales have recovered. A lot of Flex's sales problem is lack of buyer awareness, I'm pretty sure sales would climb with some push advertising.. I haven't seen a Flex ad on TV since the introduction blitz ended. The dealers in my area seldom have more than 3 on the lot at a time. It's hard to sell what you don't have. The Flex owners I have talked with really love them. What they are selling must be through good word of mouth or dealers upselling from the last Explorer. Most of the Flexes I see on the road are Limiteds or well optioned SELs. The reports are that the ATPs are on the high end. As long as Flex is profitable, Ford will keep making it. You don't have to sell 10k a month to make a nice profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I guess I should point out that ALL maintenance for the BWM is free for the first 50,000/4 years..... This includes all fluids and consumable products like break pads, windshield wipers, bulbs, etc... Just like Lincoln. The MKX is a sweet vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintengr Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 As a Flex owner 2011 SE and getting 20-21 mpg city, best ride I had so far.7 passenger rides like butter quite like a church mouse.Whats not to like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Fiesta Based CUV?= _______ Escape=Rav4 Edge=Highlander Flex=Venza Explorer=4Runner Expy=Sequoia ______=Land Cruiser ______=FJ Cruiser Ask yourself if it's enough, when the competition has more... all of the above toyota truacks hav 7 seats, except the FJ cruiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcthorne Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 and limited capabilities as compared to the previous generation RWD SUV's. They do get better fuel mileage, but in most cases only marginal as they are still very heavy vehicles with better aerodynamics and 6 speed autos. I have to differ here. The real world fuel economy is quite significant. My wife's 2002 Explorer Sport had a 100k lifetime average of 12.8mpg in mostly Houston traffic. It never got close to its window sticker 15 city. Hwy was better at 17.5 but got very little highway milage becuase it just was not comfortable for longer trips. Our new MKT which is a MUCH larger and more powerful vehicle has averaged 19.2 for its first 4800 miles. Its also AWD where the Exp was RWD. Ford is mostly not marketing off road vehicles. They market utility vehicles that are designed to do what they are used for very well. Be gone the pretense of offroad use that they were never used for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 all of the above toyota truacks hav 7 seats, except the FJ cruiser. Though why the RAV4 seats seven, I'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 The Edge has been a great addition to the Ford line-up and is a strong seller at my Dealership. Overall, the Ford Flex has more than a major disappointment as we sell maybe 6 per model year while Ford's production totals omly around 20,000 units. Our Ford Zone Manager tells me that Ford is committed to producing the Flex through the 2019 Model Year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I can believe that--although I think the 2015-2019 model is a bit more expendable than this one. Here's the thing about the Flex, as opposed to the Expy. I hear of Ford pressuring dealers to take Expys, I do not hear that Ford is pressuring dealers to take Flexes. Maybe they are, I don't know. But what I take away from that is that Ford is comfortable with Flex volume. Of course they'd prefer higher volumes, who wouldn't? But on the whole, I'd guess they are not overly concerned. -- And I'd apply that logic to the MKS/MKT as well. Ford seems willing and able to let these products find their 'natural' volume, and are not aggressively pushing volume with incentives/allocation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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