Explorer lambasted

[akirby]

This is pretty big news, as CR is still riding the perception that they are the last word on everything. I am thinking that CR, like many other things, has fallen from its pedestal in reality but in its own mind is still the king. CR may very well be out of touch with what the modern American consumer actually wants. Bottom line is simple: The June issue of CR is out. Their poor review of the Explorer is all over the news. If sales of the Explorer drop in the next two monthly cycles, then CR is relevant, and still has some power. If sales increase, then it is CR that has to review what it is doing wrong, not Ford. I’ll be watching this closely.

 

I don't think CR's reviews and rankings have much clout with the general buying public - just like all the other auto publications. People use CRs reliability ratings to either justify what they already want to buy or to avoid those with really really bad ratings.

 

I'm predicting no impact to Explorer sales whatsoever.

[silvrsvt]

This is pretty big news, as CR is still riding the perception that they are the last word on everything. I am thinking that CR, like many other things, has fallen from its pedestal in reality but in its own mind is still the king. CR may very well be out of touch with what the modern American consumer actually wants. Bottom line is simple: The June issue of CR is out. Their poor review of the Explorer is all over the news. If sales of the Explorer drop in the next two monthly cycles, then CR is relevant, and still has some power. If sales increase, then it is CR that has to review what it is doing wrong, not Ford. I'll be watching this closely.

 

Funny thing is that Chevy advertises that Malibu is one of CR's picks for cars....doesn't seem to be doing much for them either.

 

I don't think this is going to have much impact on sales...the Explorer has a huge market of prior buyers that love the idea of getting 24 MPG highway in an explorer after years of getting only 18 if they where lucky

[Deanh]

This is pretty big news, as CR is still riding the perception that they are the last word on everything. I am thinking that CR, like many other things, has fallen from its pedestal in reality but in its own mind is still the king. CR may very well be out of touch with what the modern American consumer actually wants. Bottom line is simple: The June issue of CR is out. Their poor review of the Explorer is all over the news. If sales of the Explorer drop in the next two monthly cycles, then CR is relevant, and still has some power. If sales increase, then it is CR that has to review what it is doing wrong, not Ford. I’ll be watching this closely.

they are morons..case in point from a certified Videoholic....they rated Palzma TV's and rated a ho-hum better than the cream of the crop at the time a Pioneer Kuro...and their opinions were on non ISF certified NON calibrated sets....all they are good for rating is low ticket items chaps...take it from me...

[V8-X]

My favorite was "There is not a lot of room for my left foot". What was he talking about it was in there, not jammed in....how much room does he need?

This issue is not only a fault of the Explorer. My brothers Freestyle has the issue, as does my father in laws 2010 Taurus. But, this is one of only two gripes my father in law has about his Taurus though.

[Deanh]

This issue is not only a fault of the Explorer. My brothers Freestyle has the issue, as does my father in laws 2010 Taurus. But, this is one of only two gripes my father in law has about his Taurus though.

???? are you serious V8....I have a 2011 SHO outside my office...in reality its no different to the 2010...theres a DEAD pedal thats HUGE to the left...so WTF? does your family roam woods dressed in hairy outfits appeasing those enveloped in "Could this be" sightings?...or do you just have feet that make snow shoes look like tight flip flops???????????????

Edited May 11, 2011 by Deanh

[Extreme4x4]

LOL

 

Actually, I think CR has proven themselves irrelevant for years. The Equinox is one above the Explorer, and it is a huge hit. The Edge is below the Explorer, and is loved and a great seller. As a matter of fact, many of their highly rated vehicles sell very poorly.

 

Frankly, I think CR mainly talks to Toyota owners who want to feel better about buying such a sub par appliance. They are preaching to the choir.

 

Again, they will continue to "lambast" all new Ford with MFT.

 

Dean, I don't think Ford could take an Explorer to them, to show them how lame they are....................... they are all sold before they could grab one off of a lot or the production line.

[Deanh]

LOL

 

Actually, I think CR has proven themselves irrelevant for years. The Equinox is one above the Explorer, and it is a huge hit. The Edge is below the Explorer, and is loved and a great seller. As a matter of fact, many of their highly rated vehicles sell very poorly.

 

Frankly, I think CR mainly talks to Toyota owners who want to feel better about buying such a sub par appliance. They are preaching to the choir.

 

Again, they will continue to "lambast" all new Ford with MFT.

 

Dean, I don't think Ford could take an Explorer to them, to show them how lame they are....................... they are all sold before they could grab one off of a lot or the production line.

literally, if in the position Id call them out publically in a well advertised campaign, and give them a choice...its a win win...a "what are you afraid we would prove your statements false" or a " well your mention of how the Toyota is "X" and the Ford is "Y"its blatantly obvious that your statement is inaccurate based on this direct comparison, wouldnt you agree? " dilemma they would be unable to cope with. EMBARRAS them publically and call them out for what they are....

[RichardJensen]

Just FYI:

 

I went through and gave positive rep to everyone who got dinged for criticizing CR. Geez that's lame.

 

---

 

Mulally had Ford engineers sit down with CR reviewers critical of the Edge, and listen and take notes.

 

I wonder if he'll do the same with the Explorer--seeing that (unlike the Edge), the Explorer was done on his watch.

[LarryQW]

???? are you serious V8....I have a 2011 SHO outside my office...in reality its no different to the 2010...theres a DEAD pedal thats HUGE to the left...so WTF? does your family roam woods dressed in hairy outfits appeasing those enveloped in "Could this be" sightings?...or do you just have feet that make snow shoes look like tight flip flops???????????????

 

Actually, I had the same problem with the driver's seating on the Freestyle and Taurus X, which use the same platform. The driver discomfort was bad enough to prevent me from buying a Freestyle that I really wanted otherwise. I sat in the Freestyle on at least 5 visits and kept trying all seat positions to see if I could find the magic spot, or if I was somehow mistaken. With my 6'1" height, long legs, and 12" feet, I could never get the seat back far enough. The short seat pad made matters worse. Also, I could never put my left leg out straight. There's a "dead pedal" on the left, but it's in an unnatural place, with my left leg lifted way up off the short seat and much higher than the right leg. I always need to keep my left leg rotated inward to the right at a bad angle in order to fit into the seat.

 

The Taurus X had the same problem, but was just slightly better, enough for me to buy the car. I've since done long trips (~10 hours) driving and have been OK, in spite of my fears. I just keep moving my left leg around in different awkward ways, enough to keep from hurting or causing injury.

Edited May 11, 2011 by LarryQW

[LarryQW]

POW WOW....uh uh...Id have a call out session and bring along some independent testors along with the CR folk...AND put it all on film....let the belittling begin.....with a little luck it would make them look SO stupid that they would get out of evaluating any type of vehicles and get back to what they are good at...Ionized water taste tests.....and comparing MAtt Black Paint.

 

There's been some PowWows already between Ford and CR. I saw the video when Mullaly had Ford's SYNC and MFT teams visit Consumer Reports to investigate their MFT issues. Basicallly, Mullaly told his engineers to listen to CR's evaluation very carefully, rather than try to justify Ford's approach or lecture CR on how to work controls. I think Mullaly was right in his response, in that there some small truth to CR's complaints that Ford really does need to fix still. When Ford gets it right, it'll be a major improvement that and will surely help the consumer and maybe CR can accept with a positive review.

 

From what I've seen on videos and other's comments here, CR indeed has some merit in saying MFT is complex, distracting, and slow to respond. Only now is Ford getting the major bugs out, with some minor bugs to go. And as CR points out, the dual dedicated hardware controls are still imperfect as well. CR show this in their video by hitting a button a few times with inconsistent response. Maybe CR is exaggerating the issue, but I design human interfaces as well, and I'd never make a human interface so complicated, slow, inconsistent, and buggy, even for top engineers and physicists that use our Class IV laser product, and certainly not for a control to be used by the general public while driving a fast two-ton vehicle with lives in jeopardy.

 

Like Mullaly, I'd say Ford should listen to CR, and fix MFT some more. Don't make excuses. It'll be better for the effort and become top-notch.

[NickF1011]

I'd never make a human interface so complicated, slow, inconsistent, and buggy,

 

Since the latest update, I haven't found mine to be slow, inconsistent, or buggy. And the complexity issue is vastly overstated. Once you learn the menus (which took all of about a day or two), it's very straight forward. The only alternative to all of the menus would be more buttons, which I would consider to be even worse, considering most of the sub-menus are rarely used once you have everything customized to your liking.

 

Should Ford listen to CR? Sure. Should they dumb down the system to make it "easier" to use? I sure hope not.

Edited May 11, 2011 by NickF1011

[Deanh]

There's been some PowWows already between Ford and CR. I saw the video when Mullaly had Ford's SYNC and MFT teams visit Consumer Reports to investigate their MFT issues. Basicallly, Mullaly told his engineers to listen to CR's evaluation very carefully, rather than try to justify Ford's approach or lecture CR on how to work controls. I think Mullaly was right in his response, in that there some small truth to CR's complaints that Ford really does need to fix still. When Ford gets it right, it'll be a major improvement that and will surely help the consumer and maybe CR can accept with a positive review.

 

From what I've seen on videos and other's comments here, CR indeed has some merit in saying MFT is complex, distracting, and slow to respond. Only now is Ford getting the major bugs out, with some minor bugs to go. And as CR points out, the dual dedicated hardware controls are still imperfect as well. CR show this in their video by hitting a button a few times with inconsistent response. Maybe CR is exaggerating the issue, but I design human interfaces as well, and I'd never make a human interface so complicated, slow, inconsistent, and buggy, even for top engineers and physicists that use our Class IV laser product, and certainly not for a control to be used by the general public while driving a fast two-ton vehicle with lives in jeopardy.

 

Like Mullaly, I'd say Ford should listen to CR, and fix MFT some more. Don't make excuses. It'll be better for the effort and become top-notch.

Hey, Im not a fan of MFT myself....it NEEDS simplification to appeal to the MASSES not jus techies, 90 % of the applications i question, BUT, its basics....Synch/ phone, Nav, Climate and Entertainment are sound....obviously someone found the option unbeleivaby open to extension and went hog wild adding app after app, after app.... maybe there should be a BASIC button with a NERD option for those so easily entertained...I dont know...but even I find half of the crap worthless and question WHY...HOROSCOPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But, and I will say this...CR is using the MFT as a crutch to pan the car as a whole....and without proper hands on ( forget being shown the system, you forget that in 10 minutes ) obviousy MFT is an unsurmountable obstacle they cannot ignore, NOR can they focus on anything else, then its just a nit pick fest.

[NickF1011]

Hey, Im not a fan of MFT myself....it NEEDS simplification to appeal to the MASSES not jus techies, 90 % of the applications i question, BUT, its basics....Synch/ phone, Nav, Climate and Entertainment are sound....obviously someone found the option unbeleivaby open to extension and went hog wild adding app after app, after app....

 

If you don't want to use them, don't. The system doesn't shove any of those options down your throat or anything. The main screen displays exactly what you are asking for: Phone/Nav/Climate/Entertainment. If you want to use any more of the "techie" features you need to go to another menu. The only way MFT gets complicated is if you want it to be.

[LarryQW]

But, and I will say this...CR is using the MFT as a crutch to pan the car as a whole....and without proper hands on ( forget being shown the system, you forget that in 10 minutes ) obviousy MFT is an unsurmountable obstacle they cannot ignore, NOR can they focus on anything else, then its just a nit pick fest.

If you're accustomed to reading CR, you know that they often completely dismiss a product for one or two major 'nits' that they pick. They will rate most features qualitatively relative to another, like braking distance, slalom speed, etc... (which the Explorer did well on). But some particular feature faults they find to be annoying really get under their skin, and the product will get a major ding. It's the way they do things.

 

OTOH, one major annoyance like this can be the reason for a customer to reject a product. For instance, for three years I kept visiting Ford to try the Freestyle but could never get the drivers position to be fully comfortable, like CR points out. So I didn't buy. Similarly, if a customer is having trouble operating controls, they can get very upset. We've seen that with MFT in a previous post. (Fortunately Ford is slowing fixing and improving the interface.) So a single nit, if big enough, can indeed be a fatal product flaw in some occasions.

 

Incidentally, I watched how I subconsciously handled my seating on the T-X yesterday, and found I never use the "dead pedal" as my left leg needs to bend too much to the right to be comfortable while on the pedal. My bent knee hurts that way. Instead, I put my left foot farther back and to the left near the door. The lower arm rest has a worn spot from my raised knee leaning against it. I also move around my left leg and tuck my left foot under my right leg occasionally. This problem is because the wheel well intrudes and not an easy fix without moving the wheels forward into the engine, or the driver seat back and reducing rear seat leg room and cargo capacity. It's a design flaw inherent in the Freestyle / Taurus-X / Flex / Explorer platform.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I'm about 6 feet tall and moderately overweight and have found that I have the EXACT same problem with the seating position in the Freestyle/Taurus X as well with respect to the dead pedal and straightening out my left leg. I have to basically put the seat all the way back, then move the seatback to an almost full upright position to be able to get my knee to stop being in an unpleasant position. I'm tempted to look into removing the dead pedal to see if that improves things for me. Alas, it's a work vehicle that I can't modify. I do agree with the other common compliant that the footwell is a bit too narrow as well. I do not find the bottom seat cushion to be too short or firm. The mid 2000s focus, now those were some horrible seats in my opinion, but the Freestyle/TX, those are ok.

[grbeck]

LOL

 

Actually, I think CR has proven themselves irrelevant for years. The Equinox is one above the Explorer, and it is a huge hit. The Edge is below the Explorer, and is loved and a great seller. As a matter of fact, many of their highly rated vehicles sell very poorly.

 

Frankly, I think CR mainly talks to Toyota owners who want to feel better about buying such a sub par appliance. They are preaching to the choir.

 

Again, they will continue to "lambast" all new Ford with MFT.

 

Dean, I don't think Ford could take an Explorer to them, to show them how lame they are....................... they are all sold before they could grab one off of a lot or the production line.

 

The magazine, and its editors, have had very nice things to say about Ford over the past few years. It was probably the first major publication to notice Ford's quality improvements, and give the company credit in the press.

 

And, yes, people DO pay attention to Consumer Reports. Even my father, who is not a car enthusiast, mentioned to me that Ford's quality is improving, and he believes it because Consumer Reports confirmed it. Don't underestimate the magazine's influence based on gripes posted on this site, as we are NOT typical car buyers.

[fordmantpw]

I'm about 6 feet tall and moderately overweight and have found that I have the EXACT same problem with the seating position in the Freestyle/Taurus X as well with respect to the dead pedal and straightening out my left leg. I have to basically put the seat all the way back, then move the seatback to an almost full upright position to be able to get my knee to stop being in an unpleasant position. I'm tempted to look into removing the dead pedal to see if that improves things for me. Alas, it's a work vehicle that I can't modify. I do agree with the other common compliant that the footwell is a bit too narrow as well. I do not find the bottom seat cushion to be too short or firm. The mid 2000s focus, now those were some horrible seats in my opinion, but the Freestyle/TX, those are ok.

 

Odd, I don't have the problem in the Flex, which is very similar. I am 5'-10" so I wouldn't think 2" would make that much difference. Unless they really revamped the floorpan on the Flex, which I didn't think they did.

[akirby]

And, yes, people DO pay attention to Consumer Reports. Even my father, who is not a car enthusiast, mentioned to me that Ford's quality is improving, and he believes it because Consumer Reports confirmed it. Don't underestimate the magazine's influence based on gripes posted on this site, as we are NOT typical car buyers.

 

But that is the reliability ratings, not individual vehicle reviews and rankings. I believe people use the former but not the latter in making buying decisions.

[RichardJensen]

Just over 6', longish legs, size 12s, no problems with the dead pedal in the folks' Taurus.

[Kev-Mo]

The magazine, and its editors, have had very nice things to say about Ford over the past few years. It was probably the first major publication to notice Ford's quality improvements, and give the company credit in the press.

 

And, yes, people DO pay attention to Consumer Reports. Even my father, who is not a car enthusiast, mentioned to me that Ford's quality is improving, and he believes it because Consumer Reports confirmed it. Don't underestimate the magazine's influence based on gripes posted on this site, as we are NOT typical car buyers.

 

 

What I find most interesting about guys like beck and his dad is that CR is ALWAYS right, and the target of CR’s analysis is ALWAYS wrong. What almighty power has CR acquired that makes them immune to clouded emotions, lagging business processes, personal rationalization, and normal bad judgments that all of us humans make from time to time? Has every business decision CR ever made been correct? I don’t think that even the best of the best of the best in any field can say that. Yet CR and its followers act as if their way is the only right way.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Kev-Mo

[Deanh]

What I find most interesting about guys like beck and his dad is that CR is ALWAYS right, and the target of CR’s analysis is ALWAYS wrong. What almighty power has CR acquired that makes them immune to clouded emotions, lagging business processes, personal preferences, and normal bad judgments that all of us humans make from time to time? Has every business decision CR ever made been correct? I don’t think that even the best of the best of the best in any field can say that. Yet CR and its followers act as if their way is the only right way.

the word is "entitlement" I beieve...sure put themselves on a pedestal....

[RichardJensen]

As long as David Champion is head of their auto testing unit, I will continue to post this evidence of his biases:

 

"But it is a little bit worrying when the worst plant in the U.S. is actually a Nissan import plant."

 

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2006/01/nissans-mississippi-plant-is-having-problems.html

[Gnostic]

I'm about 6 feet tall and moderately overweight and have found that I have the EXACT same problem with the seating position in the Freestyle/Taurus X as well with respect to the dead pedal and straightening out my left leg. I have to basically put the seat all the way back, then move the seatback to an almost full upright position to be able to get my knee to stop being in an unpleasant position. I'm tempted to look into removing the dead pedal to see if that improves things for me. Alas, it's a work vehicle that I can't modify. I do agree with the other common compliant that the footwell is a bit too narrow as well. I do not find the bottom seat cushion to be too short or firm. The mid 2000s focus, now those were some horrible seats in my opinion, but the Freestyle/TX, those are ok.

 

 

I'm 6'3 and 250lbs, size 12 shoe and I fit fine in my Freestyle. I don't even have the seat back all the way. I do tilt it back as far it goes so the front of the seat is as high as possible. From that position my left leg hits the dead petal perfectly. I do sometimes put my foot flat on the floor and there is enough room for me. Love the "command seating" position.

[LarryQW]

Odd, I don't have the problem in the Flex, which is very similar. I am 5'-10" so I wouldn't think 2" would make that much difference. Unless they really revamped the floorpan on the Flex, which I didn't think they did.

 

Actually, it can make a big difference. I'm closer to 6'1", with long legs for my height. So the difference could be over 3". If I only had 1" more back, I'm sure I could be substantially more comfortable.

 

I tried dozens of Freestyle and Taurus-X in my attempt to fit, and for some reason there was a slight manufacturing variation where I could get less uncomfortable in some cars. My custom order T-X was in the better comfort range, fortunately.

 

If the seat bottom was longer, I can do the trick where I tilt the seat buttom front up so my legs are supported with the knee slightly up, with my legs slightly folded zigzag rather than straight out. But the seat bottom is short and the bottom tilt not quite enough.

 

Finally, the left wheel well intrusion is not only a problem in available length, as it's less than an inch shorter than the gas and brake. It's just that I have to bend my leg too much to the right to use it. The combination of all the bending to be shorter and bending the right makes the dead pedal position very uncomfortable.

[LarryQW]

I'm 6'3 and 250lbs, size 12 shoe and I fit fine in my Freestyle. I don't even have the seat back all the way. I do tilt it back as far it goes so the front of the seat is as high as possible. From that position my left leg hits the dead petal perfectly. I do sometimes put my foot flat on the floor and there is enough room for me. Love the "command seating" position.

 

I've driven many cars, and the Freestyle/ T-X for sure has the least driver leg room, by my testing and also by the specifications. (The Outlook and Highlander has 2" more, for instance, and much more comfortable for me).

 

It could be at your height, you've learned to adjust. That is, you never get the comfort of shorter legged drivers and thus don't miss it. For example, I had a 6'5" friend driving my T-X for hours at a time on a mountain biking trip from CA to Utah. He never complained. But I could see his legs folded up like a pretzel with his knees near the steering column. (Fortunately, the ample leg room rear seats of the T-X worked well for his sleeping when he rotated out for driving shifts. Oddly the rear seats have more leg room than the driver seats in this platform. )