jpd80 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 So what do people think, is the Ford KA way to small for Americans or could Ford make a go of it by sharing production with Fiat 500? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 So what do people think, is the Ford KA way to small for Americans or could Ford make a go of it by sharing production with Fiat 500? I don't think a Ford A car is out of the question. but I do think that the Ka may not be the A-Car ford wants to bring here. I think an A-car based on the Ford start concept with an EB I3 may be the best car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) So what do people think, is the Ford KA way to small for Americans or could Ford make a go of it by sharing production with Fiat 500? In any kind of shared program like this, there are a number of contracts between the parties (Fiat and Ford) for technology, component supply, and manufacturing. Since Fiat owns the basic platform, Ford would need Fiat's agreement to enter the U.S. or to manufacture in North America (Ka is produced in a Polish Fiat plant). The best opportunity would have been for joint production in Mexico with the Fiat 500 as you mention. It's very hard to produce a sub-b car (or a b-car) car in NA and make a profit; Mexico is a lot better than the U.S. from a cost standpoint and Chrysler had an available facility at Taluca. But Fiat/Chrysler is trying to position the 500 as sort of a Mini alternative in hopes of getting the Mini's premium pricing. If Ford were to enter the market with much higher volume, it could deteriorate the 500's price position -- a scenario that would cause Fiat to be disinterested in offering the Ka to Ford in NA. I don't know what Ford has cooking with platform strategy for the Ka, but if Ford wants a sub-b in NA (a good idea in my opinion), then they are going to have to be having very tough negotiations with Fiat or develop their own platform. And they are going to have to ensure the next-generation has firm engineering to meet NA regulations from the get-go which of course can be done based on the 500 example. Edited May 19, 2011 by Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I think any future NA A-car will almost certainly be electric. Would be shocked if they decided to bring it as a conventional vehicle. These are the vehicles where the weight:battery capacity ratio can prospectively produce "good" range without exotic/duplicative powertrains/materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 As for the Fiesta, I check my local small dealership inventory on many models, weekly. One week ago they had 4. Today, they have ZERO. They sure are cute on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I'm extremely skeptical that there is enough market for the Ka in North America, and profitability has got be hard to achieve with this product since it doesn't command high-pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 "I don't think a Ford A car is out of the question. but I do think that the Ka may not be the A-Car ford wants to bring here. I think an A-car based on the Ford start concept with an EB I3 may be the best car." :yup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Yeah I'd be really impressed if Ford brought a BEV-only or maybe BEV/PiHV Start to production, even if just as a limited-market trial. I think the shared-production Ka's days are numbered, Ford could go it alone on the next generation if the Ka/Start is sent to enough markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Given the current administration's push for a 60+ mpg CAFE, a sub-subcompact such as the Ka is pretty much a certainty. Especially if Ford wants to have some cars that have near entry level pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 And in regards to a BEV based on a Ka size car, might not be too practical. Even with recent advancements in Li-ion batteries, they still require a reasonable volume. To get decent passenger and cargo space, unless you want a two seater, something the size of a Fiesta might about be the lower limit, with something the size of the Focus being more mainstream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I'm extremely skeptical that there is enough market for the Ka in North America, and profitability has got be hard to achieve with this product since it doesn't command high-pricing. This. The Fiesta was a well-timed venture in that there were already other players in the segment. But there aren't any below the Fiesta, and the smart fortwo isn't exactly a runaway success for various reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Fiesta outsold the holier than all Honda Fit in April, woo hoo I say bring a diesel Fiesta instead of a Ka. The por sales of Smart car show micro size are a wash here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) I agree with the general points raised by a few above... mainly that: 1. A-segment Ford in North America is probable but not likely in the short term 2. Fiat 500 based current model will most definitely not make it here due to various production agreement Ford had with FIAT (which limits the total output of the car to a certain number from the factory in Poland, and also where Ford can sell the car) 3. Ford Start is pointing to the future of Ford's global A-car strategy (i.e. no longer shared with FIAT) - there is now enough global volume for Ford to go alone if they consolidate India, China, Russian, and South America (which still sells the old Ka) 4. BEV will make the car very interesting prospect for US market if sales of Focus BEV takes off 5. A-segment car will have to be sold at a premium (at least parity to B-segment price) in the US to make any financial sense (hence BEV is intriguing option) Ford is suffering a lot right now from lack of product diversity in the A and B segments in emerging markets. VW and FIAT in South America, and Suzuki in India all have multiple products in the A and B segment sizes that cover every possible price points and needs. FIAT shows that you can create one A-segment platform for the entire world: start with a volume product for Europe (FIAT Panda), then add a couple of high margin "premium" products that you can sell regionally (Lancia Ypsilon) or worldwide (FIAT 500), and by mid-cycle update time, they have already taken out enough costs to create a "budget" version for emerging markets (FIAT Uno). If you add up all the volume of Ka European, Ka Brazil, Mk4 Fiesta/Icon, Mk5 Fiesta/Figo/EcoSport that are sold, I think you can make out a similar path that Ford can take with the next A-car that FIAT did with its Panda/500/Uno platform (I'm assuming the size definition of B-segment car will keep going up so Figo replacement will end up a size smaller than the Mk7 Fiesta - is it already small compare to the Mk6 Fiesta). Edited May 23, 2011 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 2 Cents as an Fiesta owner: I do like the look of the Ka and the Start Concept with the 1.0L EB is pretty nice. I feel the B-Segment is as low as you can go in NA for a business case. If you want more, simply bring a 3-dr HB Fiesta here. Maybe the next gen Ka, who can say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 2 Cents as an Fiesta owner: I do like the look of the Ka and the Start Concept with the 1.0L EB is pretty nice. I feel the B-Segment is as low as you can go in NA for a business case. If you want more, simply bring a 3-dr HB Fiesta here. Maybe the next gen Ka, who can say? I absolutely agree....however, the Start with a 1.6 eco could tempt me...FOREVER OVERKILL!...........BUT...I would think there would be takers of the Start....especially as a convertible..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If you want more, simply bring a 3-dr HB Fiesta here. With AWD and about 350-400 hp with a 6-speed DSG, like Audi's new A-1S concept. Even then, it looks like the Audi A-1S will have around 100 hp advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I absolutely agree....however, the Start with a 1.6 eco could tempt me...FOREVER OVERKILL!...........BUT...I would think there would be takers of the Start....especially as a convertible..... That sounds cool however I feel bad vibes of the last Capri Convertible. Mazda 323 platform, 1.6 turbo, all the ingredients, half-baked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 With AWD and about 350-400 hp with a 6-speed DSG, like Audi's new A-1S concept. Even then, it looks like the Audi A-1S will have around 100 hp advantage Wow! I didn't want to get ahead of myself, I was just been pragmatic. Sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 I absolutely agree....however, the Start with a 1.6 eco could tempt me...FOREVER OVERKILL!...........BUT...I would think there would be takers of the Start....especially as a convertible..... Coupe body on Fiesta platform + 1.6 EB = new Capri? Who says Ford can't take the MX5 idea and make it work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 That sounds cool however I feel bad vibes of the last Capri Convertible. Mazda 323 platform, 1.6 turbo, all the ingredients, half-baked. I dont think you will ever see another 1/2 baked product from Ford....something like what has been suggested ( along with drooling ) could give Mazdas MX 5 a good run for its money....although, i think "niche" more reflects Lincolns train of thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xargos Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 2 Cents as an Fiesta owner: I do like the look of the Ka and the Start Concept with the 1.0L EB is pretty nice. I feel the B-Segment is as low as you can go in NA for a business case. If you want more, simply bring a 3-dr HB Fiesta here. Maybe the next gen Ka, who can say? Knowing that you're pretty much right about the B-segment cars being the lowest practical size from a business sense sickens me. I just don't get why it has to be that way. If enough of the people who only have one or two people in a car at a time would realize that they don't need a big honkin' SUV and that something like this would work the sales volume would probably be high enough to make it more practical. It would also make the odds of a more affordable A-segment car increase rather than leave them at a premium like the Fiat 500 gets. (Can you tell I want an A-segment car?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Knowing that you're pretty much right about the B-segment cars being the lowest practical size from a business sense sickens me. I just don't get why it has to be that way. If enough of the people who only have one or two people in a car at a time would realize that they don't need a big honkin' SUV and that something like this would work the sales volume would probably be high enough to make it more practical. It would also make the odds of a more affordable A-segment car increase rather than leave them at a premium like the Fiat 500 gets. (Can you tell I want an A-segment car?) I'm not against A-Segment. I lived for years in the eastern portion of NA. No parking in the cities, small roads and spaces. Factor in the other company's of whatever shilling stuff you don't need but are guilt-ed/judged into because you have kids or are going to have children. This stuff I can barely fit into a current 'B' car or a used 'C' car and still have to buy groceries. No, I won't ride a bike in winter with my child in a pull-cart behind it regardless of season. Our needs/wants may be similar and I hope you get your wish. It's also the rest of the country's needs/wants that are looked at to make these business cases. I can agree you may not need an SUV/CUV/Minivan (In other sizes other then big honkin') yet people make choices that are based more on wants not needs. I'm sorry this is coming like a lecture, not my intentions. I like the look of the Ka and it's potential. I feel a 3-dr Fiesta should be here to test the waters. It is a awesome first car/commuter car. I rode my subordinate's SMART Fortwo, yuck. I see Fiat's in the Chrysler lots now, meh. That's me though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 What if the next Ka was based on Fiesta, would that enable Ford to find scales of economy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 So what do people think, is the Ford KA way to small for Americans or could Ford make a go of it by sharing production with Fiat 500? I test drove a Fiat 500 yesterday here in Montreal. The one I test drove was fully equipped and would cost $26,000 (with tax). I can get a fully loaded Fiesta for cheaper than that and the Fiesta is a much more substantial car not to mention having 2 additional doors and somewhat usable rear seats. For anyone saying the Fiesta is not competitive because the rear seats don't fold flat, try folding the rear seats in a Fiat 500... Montreal is now full of Fiat 500s - they are everywhere even though they only recently came to market. I see up to 5 per day. They far outnumber the amount of Fiesta's I see on the road. Why are people flocking to the 500 and paying such prices? I don't know. I think it's because of the fact it looks like Pokemon (?). I can't say it's because of the price point because the 500 is not cheap for what you get. Is it because people assume it gets the best mileage because of its size? - people aren't doing their homework then. Right now I see a business case for a Fiesta 3-door more than a KA sized vehicle. Ford cannot lose it's shirt just to have presence in a particular category. As for the 500, it was a lot of fun to drive. Then again, look at the attached video and tell me you would get that size of vehicle.... I know it's dramatic but death usually always is..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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