MT tests Focus against 7 other cars

[Deanh]

No. The clock does not start until the vehicle moves.

actually that IS news to me, I always thought when the light went green or went off it was go time amd the elapsed time gos from there. Otherwise I could basically wait until the guy in the other line had finished....interesting...in that case what is the point of the Xmas tree.....? decoration?....lol

[akirby]

actually that IS news to me, I always thought when the light went green or went off it was go time amd the elapsed time gos from there. Otherwise I could basically wait until the guy in the other line had finished....interesting...in that case what is the point of the Xmas tree.....? decoration?....lol

 

For drag racing on a track - yes. But not for measuring 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for magazine articles. They use a GPS device that starts the clock when the vehicle moves.

[akirby]

You can't win them all... sounds like Focus would be a better contender if the transmission shift program were allowed to behave like a real DCT instead of mimicking a conventional 6 speed auto. I think Ford was concerned about MPG hit but I'm sure over time, they will be able to figure out a compromise.

 

What do you mean "behave like a real DCT"? Do you understand how a DCT works?

[Deanh]

For drag racing on a track - yes. But not for measuring 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for magazine articles. They use a GPS device that starts the clock when the vehicle moves.

thx for the clarification Kirb. Funny, if my time in the ring wasnt predicated by reaction time, my spelling would be even worse...........lol

[twmalonehunter]

For what it's worth, I finally got to drive a 5sp Focus today, an SE very similar to what I ordered. I am so happy with my choice, that shifter is smooth as silk. I haven't driven a stick for about 5 years, and I had zero problem being smooth in that car, from the very first release of the clutch. That car is gonna be soooooo fun to own and drive.

 

One thing did concern me. I looked over a couple of sedans, and noticed some pretty substantial gap differences on between the trunklid and taillights. If I was taking delivery of either one, that would have to be addressed. Most other panel gaps seemed acceptable, but I was somewhat disappointed. The interior of the one I drove was very nice, I like the SE trim and the seats seem very supportive.

 

I also wonder if all of the reviewers realize how to raise and lower the front seat. You sort of pump the lever on the left either up or down. I am 5'11 and with the seat all the way down, I had at least 5" between my head and the sunroof. But I had never been in a car that had seat adjusters like that before, and I discovered it by accident. The sound system also sounded pretty good in the limited time I played with it. but I will definitely have to install a subwoofer somewhere in the car.

 

And I am still trying to figure out how that car can be described by the MT idiot as "gimmicky"......

[twmalonehunter]

thx for the clarification Kirb. Funny, if my time in the ring wasnt predicated by reaction time, my spelling would be even worse...........lol

 

Did you notice that at the end of the quarter mile, even though the trap time of the VW was .1 lower, the Focus was 3 mph faster and would easily walk away from the VW after that. I think the Focus was a full 3 seconds quicker to 100. And to me the most important time was the 45-65 passing and the Focus was the quickest of the bunch. That 2.0DI motor delivers!

 

And I pity the person who owns that VW TDI after the warranty period is up. My ex's 2003 Passat has been a money pit from the time the warranty expired, simply junk. I talk a lot to the VW techs at the dealer I service, and I don't think many if any of them would own a VW if they weren't mechanics. They prefer their Ford trucks lol.

Edited May 24, 2011 by twmalonehunter

[aneekr]

What do you mean "behave like a real DCT"? Do you understand how a DCT works?

Yes, a DCT is in essence two parallel manual transmissions in a common housing with mechatronics governing shift actions.

 

VW/Borg Warner DSG behaves like a real DCT. Specifically, it executes upshifts very rapidly (as low as 8 ms) and also performs perfect rev-matched downshifts and does so very quickly (~ 600 ms). By comparison, Ford's PowerShift transmission- at least in the North American Fiesta and Mk3 Focus- does not exhibit the same responsiveness. Upshifts seem to be slurred, more like a conventional slushbox. Also, execution of rev-matched downshifts is not as precise as with the VW DSG. Moreover, the VW DSG is also smoother at low speeds (< 20 km/h) than the Ford PowerShift.

 

That's what I believe bzcat conveyed. It should be quite evident in test drives of Ford and VW automobiles equipped with the respective DCTs.

[DEREKC]

No major auto magazine has said anything good in recent history about Ford or the new Ford Focus. Like I have said all along, it all depends on how much they are paid!

[twmalonehunter]

No major auto magazine has said anything good in recent history about Ford or the new Ford Focus. Like I have said all along, it all depends on how much they are paid!

 

???

[Alex D.]

As a 2012 Focus Powershift owner, I can substantiate MT's claims regarding the shifting of this unit. Now, let it be known that I am in no way defending MT, rather providing some insight based on personal experience. When the transmission is cold, shifts are harsh and RPM's flare to nearly 3,000 RPM, even under the lightest of throttle, with a significant amount of jerking experienced during the shift, with a similar feel as it shifts into 3rd. Beyond this, shifts are buttery smooth up into 4th and beyond. As the trans warms up, the shifts smooth out considerably. However, there is some lingering flaring and jerking shifting into 2nd even after driving several miles. I am now nearing my 2nd week of ownership, and have noticed some improvement - likely due to the adaptive shift strategy learning my conservative driving style. My hopes are that this will continue to smooth out with time, as the Powershift is nowhere near as smooth as the 4-speed AT in either my '05 or '08 Foci. Overall, however, shifts are quicker into subsequent gears with less torque loss between shifts, except for that ever-rough shift into 2nd.

[MY93SHO]

Did you notice that at the end of the quarter mile, even though the trap time of the VW was .1 lower, the Focus was 3 mph faster and would easily walk away from the VW after that. I think the Focus was a full 3 seconds quicker to 100. And to me the most important time was the 45-65 passing and the Focus was the quickest of the bunch. That 2.0DI motor delivers!

 

And I pity the person who owns that VW TDI after the warranty period is up. My ex's 2003 Passat has been a money pit from the time the warranty expired, simply junk. I talk a lot to the VW techs at the dealer I service, and I don't think many if any of them would own a VW if they weren't mechanics. They prefer their Ford trucks lol.

 

FYI, Motorweek recorded a 0-60 of 7.6 in a Focus Titanium with the auto.

[PREMiERdrum]

I also wonder if all of the reviewers realize how to raise and lower the front seat. You sort of pump the lever on the left either up or down. I am 5'11 and with the seat all the way down, I had at least 5" between my head and the sunroof. But I had never been in a car that had seat adjusters like that before, and I discovered it by accident.

 

The 2008-11 Focus had the "pump" as well. It was odd, but works very well for a non-power seat situation. My 2000 and 2001 had a cog/crank on the seatfront to raise or lower the seat. It was much less intuitive than the pump.

[SVT_MAN]

Thanks for the info from Ford's site. Regarding the question, my experience has involved a combination of cars at dealerships, evaluation units sent to me from Ford, and a variety of fleet vehicles (I used to work in the fleet management field). My personal car (2010 Ford Fusion) has a manual transmission. Maybe it's my driving style, but even after thousands of miles in certain vehicles I've never had much luck getting FWD Ford cars with automatics to be both smooth and responsive in all driving situations. Furthermore, newer Fords with either the 6F or PowerShift seem to programmed to upshift into high gears very quickly unless one drives aggressively - not something I like.

 

The most notable exception IMO was a 2008 Fusion SEL V6 with 6-speed Aisin AW automatic. That automatic tranny was as smooth and responsive as any I've ever experienced; the 2006-2007 MY D3 cars I drove with that tranny were almost as good.

 

Crap. If your 2008 SEL had a smooth tranny, I better get rid of my car while I still can. My 2006 has harsh shifts, doesn't seem to know what gear it should be in, and the shift quality is never the same. One time it'll be smooth as butter, the next time it'll feel like I'm driving a stickshift with a driver who doesn't understand the clutch. I've complained to the dealer about it several times and they always tell me it's "normal" ...

 

It hasn't failed yet, but I am admittedly worried.

Edited May 25, 2011 by SVT_MAN

[akirby]

Yes, a DCT is in essence two parallel manual transmissions in a common housing with mechatronics governing shift actions.

 

VW/Borg Warner DSG behaves like a real DCT. Specifically, it executes upshifts very rapidly (as low as 8 ms) and also performs perfect rev-matched downshifts and does so very quickly (~ 600 ms). By comparison, Ford's PowerShift transmission- at least in the North American Fiesta and Mk3 Focus- does not exhibit the same responsiveness. Upshifts seem to be slurred, more like a conventional slushbox. Also, execution of rev-matched downshifts is not as precise as with the VW DSG. Moreover, the VW DSG is also smoother at low speeds (< 20 km/h) than the Ford PowerShift.

 

That's what I believe bzcat conveyed. It should be quite evident in test drives of Ford and VW automobiles equipped with the respective DCTs.

 

I still don't think 8 ms shifts is "behaving like a real DCT" necessarily, but I see your point. Obviously VW is going after performance where Ford is going for smoothness and fuel economy. I wonder if the fact that Ford's DCT is a dry clutch design has anything to do with it? I know it limits the torque. It could also be that they just haven't had enough time to sort out the programming.

[Kabigon]

actually that IS news to me, I always thought when the light went green or went off it was go time amd the elapsed time gos from there. Otherwise I could basically wait until the guy in the other line had finished....interesting...in that case what is the point of the Xmas tree.....? decoration?....lol

 

The winner of a drag race is the person that gets to the "finish line" first (without "red-lighting"). Drag races are often won with a slower E.T. and a faster reaction time.

[BlackHorse]

Let me jump in here as someone who has the 6 speed auto in my Focus. At low speed from time to time the car can feel jerky as though it can't figure out if it wants to be in first or second gear. Of course I can avoid this simply by putting the car in "S" and rowing the gears myself. But I have also found that most of the lunge or jerking is attributable to style of driving as well. No doubt the clowns at MotorTrend are out there trying to drive a fuel efficient, compact car as though it were a sports car and when you do that the transmission is going to behave differently, especially in a press fleet car. The shift mapping adapts to the owner, not the plethora of knuckle dragging press goons that get behind the wheel and try to see if they can break the thing. Naturally the transmission isn't going to respond well. I have found that if it just drive the car normally and don't try to win the Indy 500 every time I get behind the wheel that the transmission shifts out smooth and quiet with no problems.

[aneekr]

Crap. If your 2008 SEL had a smooth tranny, I better get rid of my car while I still can. My 2006 has harsh shifts, doesn't seem to know what gear it should be in, and the shift quality is never the same. One time it'll be smooth as butter, the next time it'll feel like I'm driving a stickshift with a driver who doesn't understand the clutch. I've complained to the dealer about it several times and they always tell me it's "normal" ...

 

It hasn't failed yet, but I am admittedly worried.

I hope the transmission issues get resolved soon on your Ford Fusion SVT_MAN!

 

Ironically, the 2008 Fusion SEL I referred to was a long term rental. I had it for about 3 months while on assignment in Houston right after Hurricane Ike. Maybe this particular Fusion was a ringer, but it had the best automatic tranny I've experienced in a FWD Ford product - flawless, consistent performance (even with the air conditioner cranked up in that stifling September south Texas heat). All in all, this car never once let me down and impressed me enough that I even took a photo when the rental agency delivered it...

[svtenthusiast]

As an owner of the 2012 Focus with the 6 speed powershift automatic, I can tell when I read this article there is much bias against Ford. Like my fellow owners have said here, when the car is driven slowly it's the only time you can tell it's an automated manual. As a manual transmission enthusiast, I understand the mechnaics of what is happening behind the scenes, so I think some of the comments about it being rough from idle (essentialy it goes into neutral) and first gear are normal and inherent to a manual transmission. Most of the time this transmission is very smooth, and the shifts are very fast. Also, the comments about chattering at low speed is normal until the clutches wear in. Mine has just turned 1,000 miles and has smoothed out considerably. These press cars are beat on and are driven very hard, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

This is the first time I have heard somene bash a car for "too good of tires" what a joke MT has become.

 

And "goofy" styling? OK guys lay off the drugs. You don't have to look further than the Hundai Elantra to come up with that comment.

[GT-Keith]

Yes, a DCT is in essence two parallel manual transmissions in a common housing with mechatronics governing shift actions.

 

VW/Borg Warner DSG behaves like a real DCT. Specifically, it executes upshifts very rapidly (as low as 8 ms) and also performs perfect rev-matched downshifts and does so very quickly (~ 600 ms). By comparison, Ford's PowerShift transmission- at least in the North American Fiesta and Mk3 Focus- does not exhibit the same responsiveness. Upshifts seem to be slurred, more like a conventional slushbox. Also, execution of rev-matched downshifts is not as precise as with the VW DSG. Moreover, the VW DSG is also smoother at low speeds (< 20 km/h) than the Ford PowerShift.

 

That's what I believe bzcat conveyed. It should be quite evident in test drives of Ford and VW automobiles equipped with the respective DCTs.

 

That's because Ford's Getrag unit is designed for low-power application and fuel efficiency, not performance; dry clutch v. wet, apples v. oranges. VW uses similar DCT on their high-end S lines. We've yet to see a performance-oriented DCT from Ford.

 

Even though the DCT unit in the Focus/Fiesta isn't performance oriented like some higher-end units from competitors, it still posses a number of advantages over a tradition manual transmission:

 

Wonder why the auto Fiesta was so much quicker than the manual version around our Figure-Eight course? A lot of the credit goes to the 6-speed automatic which, in 'L' mode, was almost reading my mind. Both cars turned out to be surprisingly controllable in the corners, with minor prods of the throttle causing delightful results in their cornering attitude (and both also enjoyed quick evaporation of any evidence of stability control when you straightened the wheel and began to accelerate). But here's where the differences really begin -- the automatic's upshift was a snap, taking a lot less time than manipulating the slightly remote-feeling manual lever (the automatic's extra gear could be helping, too). However, the best part came when braking into the following turn, when the 'L' mode would do a quick downshift to second gear -- exactly when I wanted it. No fumbling with my feet and upsetting the car while slowing. All this makes the automatic Fiesta a very easy car to quickly nail a good lap time in -- and that's important because you want to get a good time in the bag before the tires start to suffer from heat build-up. The manual transmission version takes a lot more practice to figure out -- all the while generating tire heat that reduces its handling potential.

 

 

 

Source

 

I believe these comments that MT made when testing the Fiesta underscores their sentiments regarding Ford's DCT: It's tuned for spirited driving as well as efficiency.

[SVTCobra]

Did anyone check out the fuel mileage numbers? Listed from worst to best

 

Chevy Cruze: EPA 24 / 36

MT Fuel Economy: 23.8 - Close to EPA City, but I am surprised that it is that low

 

Kia Forte EX: EPA 26 / 36

MT Fuel Economy: 23.9 - OUCH! - 2.1 MPG less than EPA City

 

Hyundai Elantra Limited: EPA 29 / 40

MT Fuel Economy: 25.7 - OUCH! - 3.3 MPG less than EPA City

 

Toyota Corolla LE: EPA 26 / 34

MT Fuel Economy: 27.6

 

Mazda3 Touring: EPA 24 / 33

MT Fuel Economy: 27.8

 

Ford Focus Ti: EPA 27 / 37

MT Fuel Economy: 27.9

 

Honda Civic EX: EPA 28 / 39

MT Fuel Economy: 29.4

 

Volkswagen Jetta TDI: EPA 30 / 42

MT Fuel Economy: 32.3

[Alex D.]

As an owner of the 2012 Focus with the 6 speed powershift automatic, I can tell when I read this article there is much bias against Ford. Like my fellow owners have said here, when the car is driven slowly it's the only time you can tell it's an automated manual. As a manual transmission enthusiast, I understand the mechnaics of what is happening behind the scenes, so I think some of the comments about it being rough from idle (essentialy it goes into neutral) and first gear are normal and inherent to a manual transmission. Most of the time this transmission is very smooth, and the shifts are very fast. Also, the comments about chattering at low speed is normal until the clutches wear in. Mine has just turned 1,000 miles and has smoothed out considerably. These press cars are beat on and are driven very hard, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

This is the first time I have heard somene bash a car for "too good of tires" what a joke MT has become.

 

And "goofy" styling? OK guys lay off the drugs. You don't have to look further than the Hundai Elantra to come up with that comment.

 

I'm glad to hear yours has smoothed out considerably, svtenthusiast. I'm approaching 600 miles and have noticed some improvement and am hoping for similar gains comparable to your experience with more miles on the clock.

[Michael Reynolds]

After reading several reviews (complaints I should say) regarding the Ford DSG.....I think most are missing out on its premise here. Having said that glancing at the performance and fuel economy numbers the transmission can't be all that bad.

[GT-Keith]

After reading several reviews (complaints I should say) regarding the Ford DSG.....I think most are missing out on its premise here. Having said that glancing at the performance and fuel economy numbers the transmission can't be all that bad.

 

Most publications have been so spoiled by testing instruments that it has become too much of a burden for them to write subjectively, consistently, and logically, hence why Motor Trend's assessments have been so off-beat.

 

Publications have complained for years that 'Detroit's C-segment cars have been economic shit boxs' relative to their overseas competitors, yet when they finally deliver they digress and pick the one with no clear advantages over it's competitors.

 

They post inconsistent drivel.

[timmm55]

I still don't think 8 ms shifts is "behaving like a real DCT" necessarily, but I see your point. Obviously VW is going after performance where Ford is going for smoothness and fuel economy. I wonder if the fact that Ford's DCT is a dry clutch design has anything to do with it? I know it limits the torque. It could also be that they just haven't had enough time to sort out the programming.

 

Either get a stick.......like most Europeans Focus owners will do, or wait. There have been a few complaints, MT is not alone. Fords need to confront this. It's a pity really, such a great car otherwise, but with so many Americans preferring automatics this is inexcusable.

 

Or educate the reviewers/buyers?

 

Driving Impressions

The 2012 Ford Focus feels like a European car in the way it's been tuned to provide both sharp handling and a refined ride. There's very little body roll in corners, while the sharp, communicative steering is a revelation given that it's electrically assisted. The 2012 Focus is a fun car to drive, especially if it's the Titanium trim level with the Titanium Handling package.

 

In contrast, the 2.0-liter engine isn't as much of a standout, but it offers competitive performance and fuel economy. The five-speed manual transmission works well enough and gives the car a sportier feel, though we found ourselves wishing for a 6th gear on the highway. The automatic has that extra gear and generally works well, though buyers should note that it's technically a dual-clutch automated manual and behaves differently from a traditional automatic, occasionally rolling slightly back on hills or being reluctant to creep forward when parking. Still, this design better utilizes the engine's power and shifts responsively, especially in Sport mode.

Edited May 25, 2011 by timmm55

[Biker16]

Did anyone check out the fuel mileage numbers? Listed from worst to best

 

Chevy Cruze: EPA 24 / 36

MT Fuel Economy: 23.8 - Close to EPA City, but I am surprised that it is that low

 

Kia Forte EX: EPA 26 / 36

MT Fuel Economy: 23.9 - OUCH! - 2.1 MPG less than EPA City

 

Hyundai Elantra Limited: EPA 29 / 40

MT Fuel Economy: 25.7 - OUCH! - 3.3 MPG less than EPA City

 

Toyota Corolla LE: EPA 26 / 34

MT Fuel Economy: 27.6

 

Mazda3 Touring: EPA 24 / 33

MT Fuel Economy: 27.8

 

Ford Focus Ti: EPA 27 / 37

MT Fuel Economy: 27.9

 

Honda Civic EX: EPA 28 / 39

MT Fuel Economy: 29.4

 

Volkswagen Jetta TDI: EPA 30 / 42

MT Fuel Economy: 32.3

 

I saw that, i think there is tom-foolery going on with the hyndai/kia