sranger Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I never liked the look of the Flex. It seemed to be a late comer to the BOX ON WHEELS fad that vehicles like the Scion Xb started. However, I thought the MKT looked far worse than the Flex ( really did not think that was possible). The Big nose on the MKT just turns my stomach. I would not buy either of these vehicles because I just could not stand the look.... However, I do not seem to have a good idea of what will be stylish or popular. When I hate something this bad, it usually sales very well. As a result, I am surprised the sales of these two are not through the roof considering how much I dislike them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Of the MKT competitors, how many are sold globally (or at least more than NA)? What are the true sales when not just counting MKT's sales region? (FYI: I have no clue so it's not a trick question, I'm curious if they have more leg to stand on from global sales as opposed to just NA sales). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 And we all know this is the completely finished product. And well, even if it is just a new nose and bumper, you can't see either of them in these pictures!!! :poke: I honestly doubt the Flex will get all new sheet metal. A new front, back and interior are very likely. They might make a few small sheet metal changes like taking out the grooves on the doors, but I would bet the basic look stays the same. If they decide to keep building the MKT then it needs a ground-up complete restyle. A simple facelift will not fix that big booty and bizarre proportions. Getting rid of the huge ugly grill would help, but I still think the rear needs a lot of fixing as well. They might as well start over with every body panel and get it right if they are going to keep making it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 However, I do not seem to have a good idea of what will be stylish or popular. When I hate something this bad, it usually sales very well. As a result, I am surprised the sales of these two are not through the roof considering how much I dislike them...... I think it has a lot to do with price point. For example, the Nissan Juke sells very well but its relatively inexpensive (I personally think it looks like a frog). I think younger people are more inclined to try adventurous styling. Then there's the Nissan Cube....they are everywhere. Do the same thing to an Infiniti and you run the risk of alienating a more conservative buyer. Few people would plunk $60k down on polarizing styling. As for the comments on the MKT. Has anyone seen the new Q56? I've seen only one. It makes the MKT look reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Of the MKT competitors, how many are sold globally (or at least more than NA)? What are the true sales when not just counting MKT's sales region? (FYI: I have no clue so it's not a trick question, I'm curious if they have more leg to stand on from global sales as opposed to just NA sales). The only problem with that is outside of China, the mid east and North America, most cars bigger then a C class don't sell in huge numbers I think it has a lot to do with price point. For example, the Nissan Juke sells very well but its relatively inexpensive (I personally think it looks like a frog). I think younger people are more inclined to try adventurous styling. Then there's the Nissan Cube....they are everywhere. Keep two things in mind...Nissan sells alot of rental cars and since the Juke and Cube are very polzarizing, they have a tendency to stick out more then other cars, and you seem to see them more often then other cars. I tried to find the sales numbers on them, but haven't been successful...I bet together they wouldn't equal a month of Fiesta sales... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Keep two things in mind...Nissan sells alot of rental cars and since the Juke and Cube are very polzarizing, they have a tendency to stick out more then other cars, and you seem to see them more often then other cars. I tried to find the sales numbers on them, but haven't been successful...I bet together they wouldn't equal a month of Fiesta sales... I actually wasn't comparing the sales of the Juke and Cube to the Fiesta. My comment was in reply to sranger saying "I do not seem to have a good idea of what will be stylish or popular. When I hate something this bad, it usually sales very well." I think the Juke selling '1' unit is selling very well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) Wow. You're basing all that on one disguised prototype that could easily just be a mule? Wow. I have seen the unmasked prototype on Rotunda. Edited June 7, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Flex sales are disappointing. I don't think anybody here disputes that. :beerchug: You're right, I don't dispute that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Of the MKT competitors, how many are sold globally (or at least more than NA)? What are the true sales when not just counting MKT's sales region? (FYI: I have no clue so it's not a trick question, I'm curious if they have more leg to stand on from global sales as opposed to just NA sales). Sales of vehicles like the R-Class and Q7 are probably very low in other markets also. The rest of the world simply doesn't gobble up larger vehicles like the U.S. does. About the only large luxury vehicles I surmise that do particularly well in other markets are utilitarian vehicles like the G-class and Range Rover and vehicles that can double for limo duty like the S-class and 7-series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Sales of vehicles like the R-Class and Q7 are probably very low in other markets also. The rest of the world simply doesn't gobble up larger vehicles like the U.S. does. About the only large luxury vehicles I surmise that do particularly well in other markets are utilitarian vehicles like the G-class and Range Rover and vehicles that can double for limo duty like the S-class and 7-series. Exactly. So how can you sell low volume vehicles for a profit? You raise the prices and generate more profit from less vehicles and you share as much as possible on the platform side to keep costs down. This isn't rocket science guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I think it has a lot to do with price point. For example, the Nissan Juke sells very well but its relatively inexpensive (I personally think it looks like a frog). I think younger people are more inclined to try adventurous styling. Then there's the Nissan Cube....they are everywhere. Do the same thing to an Infiniti and you run the risk of alienating a more conservative buyer. Few people would plunk $60k down on polarizing styling. As for the comments on the MKT. Has anyone seen the new Q56? I've seen only one. It makes the MKT look reasonable. That is a good point..... People with enough income to buy a Lincoln tend to be a little older.... Of course that is becoming true of a loaded FORD these days as well.... My 2007 AWD SEL Plus Edge has every available option of that year and the new ones with similar ( actually a llittle more ) equipment are about $10K higher... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Of the MKT competitors, how many are sold globally (or at least more than NA)? Flipside: How many of those competitors share major structural components with high volume products? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 My 2007 AWD SEL Plus Edge has every available option of that year and the new ones with similar ( actually a llittle more ) equipment are about $10K higher... Just a little more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Flipside: How many of those competitors share major structural components with high volume products? The Q7 uses a modified version of the VW PL71 platform which underpins the Toureg, Cayenne and Q7. Not sure any of those are considered high volume, but I'm pretty sure they are all successful in relation to expectations. (Q7 sales were up 40~% this year worldwide and the Cayenne was Porsche's biggest seller of the decade...not so sure about the Toureag). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Just a little more? It has a lot of upgrades, but the entire package is only $5k MSRP and mine has navigation so you would have to subtract about $2k right there.... So you thing that the better interior and 20hp are worth another $7k....????????? Those are some expensive upgrades IMHO.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) It has a lot of upgrades, but the entire package is only $5k MSRP and mine has navigation so you would have to subtract about $2k right there.... So you thing that the better interior and 20hp are worth another $7k....????????? Those are some expensive upgrades IMHO.... Well, I didn't find the price of my '11 Edge Sport to be at all unreasonable. Only option I didn't get was rear seat entertainment. And well, after having a '10 SEL for a couple weeks as a rental while mine was being repaired after being rear-ended, yeah, it's worth whatever added cost came with the refresh. The '11 is heads and tales above the first gen. Edited June 8, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The Q7 uses a modified version of the VW PL71 platform which underpins the Toureg, Cayenne and Q7. Not sure any of those are considered high volume, but I'm pretty sure they are all successful in relation to expectations. (Q7 sales were up 40~% this year worldwide and the Cayenne was Porsche's biggest seller of the decade...not so sure about the Toureag). Touraeg seemed to drop off the map to me (I have no sales data proof for that, just going on how many I've seen in recent years, both the new and old model). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Touraeg seemed to drop off the map to me (I have no sales data proof for that, just going on how many I've seen in recent years, both the new and old model). They sold 581 last month, compared to just 281 in May of 2010. They've sold 2,640 YTD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) They sold 581 last month, compared to just 281 in May of 2010. They've sold 2,640 YTD. :redcard: :rant: WOAH, hold up!! 581 < 2,000.... Edited June 8, 2011 by rmc523 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 They sold 581 last month, compared to just 281 in May of 2010. They've sold 2,640 YTD. Globally it sold 2,578 in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Well, I didn't find the price of my '11 Edge Sport to be at all unreasonable. Only option I didn't get was rear seat entertainment. And well, after having a '10 SEL for a couple weeks as a rental while mine was being repaired after being rear-ended, yeah, it's worth whatever added cost came with the refresh. The '11 is heads and tales above the first gen. I am not saying it is not worth the money, but it is $10K extra in only 4 years for: BLISS, Adaptive Cruse, Sync, My Touch, Ambiant Lighting, Nicer interior, and 20hp.... Mine has the radar backup system which i like better than the Rear view camera, so in my opinion, it is a wash with the rear view camera.... Don't get me wrong, I like the Edge and may very well get a Limited AWD to replace my current one . The interior and road noise is very much improved over mine and Sync is sweet. The Bliss and adaptive cruse I could take or leave, but is is part of the rapid spec package I like. However, that extra $10K in 4 years is significant sticker shock to me Of course I nearly fell out of the chair when I priced a loaded F 150 Screw 4x4 lariat with the Ecoboost.... ( $52K) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I am not saying it is not worth the money, but it is $10K extra in only 4 years for: BLISS, Adaptive Cruse, Sync, My Touch, Ambiant Lighting, Nicer interior, and 20hp.... Mine has the radar backup system which i like better than the Rear view camera, so in my opinion, it is a wash with the rear view camera.... Don't get me wrong, I like the Edge and may very well get a Limited AWD to replace my current one . The interior and road noise is very much improved over mine and Sync is sweet. The Bliss and adaptive cruse I could take or leave, but is is part of the rapid spec package I like. However, that extra $10K in 4 years is significant sticker shock to me Of course I nearly fell out of the chair when I priced a loaded F 150 Screw 4x4 lariat with the Ecoboost.... ( $52K) You don't have to get all those options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 You don't have to get all those options. Point well taken, but what fun would that be.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Point well taken, but what fun would that be.... LOL, that's very true, but I guess sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it too...:reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Mine has the radar backup system which i like better than the Rear view camera, so in my opinion, it is a wash with the rear view camera.... Vehicles with the backup camera also still have the audible backup sensors (and cross traffic alert). Edited June 9, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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