Ford to invest $1B to revive Lincoln

[hbalek]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110621/AUTO01/106210376/1148/auto01/Ford-to-invest-$1B-to-revive-Lincoln

 

It seems the Lincoln version of the Explorer may replace both Navigator and MKT. The article also states that a compact sedan AND crossover are expected next year!

Edited June 21, 2011 by hbalek

[Moosetang]

I think IHS is wrong about MKT and Navigator, I could believe one going away but not both.

 

I place huge weight behind what Bob Tasca has to say, the man knows the business of selling cars. And he's saying it's not a matter of getting the right products, he seems confident they're coming, it's just that the realities of product development mean they won't be here as soon as the dealers would like. Which is not surprising because the dealers want them yesterday. Bob's optimistic, so am I.

[silvrsvt]

I think IHS is wrong about MKT and Navigator, I could believe one going away but not both.

 

I'd say so, I can see the MKT (along with the Flex) going away in 5 years after the refreshes are launched, not 2 years like this article is stating. Ford still hasn't rolled out the Town Car version for livery fleets, which should help with volume

[BORG]

I don't see anything new about this strategy, aside from what sounds like more entry level volume products. Lincoln has been delivering on what it promised, uniquely styled vehicles that share less and less with their Ford counterparts. This really is just a continuation of their existing strategy and a repackaging of that message.

 

Lincoln could use some really alluring design to make it stand out, and they've got to get a grip on the management processes delivering some of these really awful designs, like the MKT and Navigator. I've never seen such incompetent design coming from a car company since Toyota.

 

The Expedition and Navigator are long overdue for updates, and none appear to be in the pipeline, which indicates to me that they have decided to discontinue those models in the next 2 years.

Edited June 21, 2011 by BORG

[LincolnV]

Lincoln could use some really alluring design to make it stand out, and they've got to get a grip on the management processes delivering some of these really awful designs, like the MKT and Navigator. I've never seen such incompetent design coming from a car company since Toyota.

 

I would say the product that you bought is an example of when Lincoln does something right.

 

The split bow-wave grill is controversial which IMO was the point. It's bold, it's "in your face" and it's like nothing else on the market.

 

On the MKT it's proportions are off. On your vehicle it's just about perfect. I see new MKX's everywhere. I see more MKX's than Edge's. I see a new MKX and I don't think "Edge with a Lincoln Grill." There is something about the MKX that speaks "fluid design" all the way to the new tailights.

 

I see people buying more redesigned MKX's than the old model (which I LOVED but I am a fan of 60's era Lincolns).

 

It's not all doom and gloom right now. It just takes time to make it right across the brand.

[twintornados]

........ Ford still hasn't rolled out the Town Car version for livery fleets, which should help with volume

My guess would be that the MKT Town Car will bow with the mid-cycle refresh.

[silvrsvt]

My guess would be that the MKT Town Car will bow with the mid-cycle refresh.

 

Thats my expectation also, I'm sure once the TC goes away later this year and along with the MKT TC coming out, that sales should be about 800-100 units a month additional for the MKT, if not more. The TC only sold about 11K units last year, but its pretty much past its prime.

 

I'm just curious as to how much Livery/limo companies get a break when ordering TC's...I know I looked it up a couple months ago, and a TC L model was listing at $50k! An MKT starts at $44K...though the MKT only gets slightly better MPG's city vs the TC

[F250]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110621/AUTO01/106210376/1148/auto01/Ford-to-invest-$1B-to-revive-Lincoln

 

It seems the Lincoln version of the Explorer may replace both Navigator and MKT. The article also states that a compact sedan AND crossover are expected next year!

 

Yoda voice; "And that old Lincoln is why you fail."

 

Every time anyone talks about Lincoln it begins with "the Lincoln version/cousin/sister of the Ford...."

 

From the atricle:

IHS predicts Lincoln will next year add a compact sedan — a premium cousin to the Ford Focus — and a compact crossover in 2013 as a 2014 model. The automotive consultants at IHS expect most of the new and upgraded Lincolns to arrive as 2014 models, including a midsize crossover (a premium cousin to the Ford Explorer) as well as the next generation of its MKS full-size sedan. At that time, the MKT — sister to the Ford Flex — is expected to go away, and the Navigator full-size SUV could expire by 2016. But Lincoln will have new versions of the MKZ midsize sedan and MKX utility vehicle.

 

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110621/AUTO01/106210376/Ford-to-invest-$1B-to-revive-Lincoln#ixzz1Pv3bLGXS

[ds91776]

This is all great news....especially about the compact luxury sedan ( which I had expected but people kept insisting that only a C-segment CUV was coming )...I think this part of the market will be the next luxury boom, and Lincoln will be right there to compete with the Audi A3, Acura TSX, etc.

 

I don't see a problem with Lincoln sharing platforms with Ford. Would I like to see some unique platforms, especially for the MKS and a possible MK9? Of course I would. But Volkswagen and Audi have proven that world-class luxury products can be made from the bones of mass-market products if correctly upgraded, with good marketing, unique styling, and premium features. I think we all know that the current Ford team is just as capable ( if not more so ) than the guys and gals at VW. The problem with the initial phase of this strategy ( 2006-current ) was that Ford's problems prevented the investment required to give its volume products ( the MKZ and MKX ) totally unique sheetmetal and a few other features. That was the problem. To give them credit, they really tried. They did. But the MKS and MKT really are unique vehicles that 90% of luxury buyers ( my guess ) would not be able to tell they are based on platforms shared with Ford.

[akirby]

This is all great news....especially about the compact luxury sedan ( which I had expected but people kept insisting that only a C-segment CUV was coming )...I think this part of the market will be the next luxury boom, and Lincoln will be right there to compete with the Audi A3, Acura TSX, etc.

 

I don't see a problem with Lincoln sharing platforms with Ford. Would I like to see some unique platforms, especially for the MKS and a possible MK9? Of course I would. But Volkswagen and Audi have proven that world-class luxury products can be made from the bones of mass-market products if correctly upgraded, with good marketing, unique styling, and premium features. I think we all know that the current Ford team is just as capable ( if not more so ) than the guys and gals at VW. The problem with the initial phase of this strategy ( 2006-current ) was that Ford's problems prevented the investment required to give its volume products ( the MKZ and MKX ) totally unique sheetmetal and a few other features. That was the problem. To give them credit, they really tried. They did. But the MKS and MKT really are unique vehicles that 90% of luxury buyers ( my guess ) would not be able to tell they are based on platforms shared with Ford.

 

The lack of 100% unique sheetmetal including the greenhouse is what has hurt Lincoln's image. The MKZ and MKX still share door panels and greenhouses with the Fusion and Edge and that's why they continually get compared.

 

That won't be the case with the new Lincolns and they'll get a lot of new Lincoln exclusive features. As long as the styling is drop dead gorgeous (which we hear it is) they'll be fine and after a little while people won't make those comparisons.

[atvman]

Lincoln's problem isn't only that they look like Fords, it's also that they drive like Fords. When I test drove the MKS, it felt like a mainstream car in a pretty dress. Same with the MKZ. Dynamics that are perfectly acceptable, maybe even class leading, in a mainstream car are not good enough for a luxury car. My Charger feels more like a proper luxury car behind the wheel than either of the current Lincoln sedans. My dad's 160K mile LS does as well. Unless Lincoln can make their cars feel premium, looking premium isn't going to save them.

[silvrsvt]

My Charger feels more like a proper luxury car behind the wheel than either of the current Lincoln sedans.

 

 

:lol:

 

I drove my friends Charger last summer and it felt like a big POS....

 

The 300 isn't any better...at least from the passenger seat.

 

 

[NickF1011]

The Expedition and Navigator are long overdue for updates, and none appear to be in the pipeline, which indicates to me that they have decided to discontinue those models in the next 2 years.

 

We haven't seen any news on the next gen F-150 yet either, does that mean they are cancelling it? My thoughts are that the Expy/Navi development will be re-paired with the next gen F-150 and they will all launch at or near the same time.

[Anthony]

:lol:

 

I drove my friends Charger last summer and it felt like a big POS....

 

The 300 isn't any better...at least from the passenger seat.

 

If you drove them last summer, you did not drive the NEW cars. Different cars, different story.

[silvrsvt]

If you drove them last summer, you did not drive the NEW cars. Different cars, different story.

 

And why wouldn't this apply to new Lincolns also?

[atvman]

:lol:

 

I drove my friends Charger last summer and it felt like a big POS....

 

The 300 isn't any better...at least from the passenger seat.

The old Charger had it's faults, but my 2011 R/T mops the floor with anything in the Lincoln line-up. I drove the new Charger and an MKS EcoBoost in the same week, the Charger is a much more complete car. The Lincoln's only real advantage was interior quality. The new 300 doesn't give up anything to the MKS, and it's around $5K cheaper.

[atvman]

And why wouldn't this apply to new Lincolns also?

It applies to anything in Lincoln's fleet today. The upcoming models have potential to be much better behind the wheel, but nobody will really know until they're on the road.

[silvrsvt]

The lack of 100% unique sheetmetal including the greenhouse is what has hurt Lincoln's image. The MKZ and MKX still share door panels and greenhouses with the Fusion and Edge and that's why they continually get compared.

 

 

I think the biggest issue that Ford has to work on is trying to separate the Lincoln brand even more so from Ford.

 

Even though that platform sharing is very common among automakers, it seems like when ever a Lincoln is reviewed, with in the first paragraph its mentioned that it shares it platform with a Ford product. I don't see that with the Caddy SRX, The Lexus RX, Audi A4, etc...even though they are based on cheaper platforms.

 

I don't think this is going to change with new Lincoln products in the future either, even though they wont look at all like their Ford counterparts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[akirby]

I think the biggest issue that Ford has to work on is trying to separate the Lincoln brand even more so from Ford.

 

Even though that platform sharing is very common among automakers, it seems like when ever a Lincoln is reviewed, with in the first paragraph its mentioned that it shares it platform with a Ford product. I don't see that with the Caddy SRX, The Lexus RX, Audi A4, etc...even though they are based on cheaper platforms.

 

I don't think this is going to change with new Lincoln products in the future either, even though they wont look at all like their Ford counterparts.

 

I think that having 100% unique sheetmetal including doors, roof and greenhouse and Lincoln exclusive powertrains will go a long way towards fixing that. In the past there simply wasn't enough differentiation.

 

It will take some time to break old habits though.

[BORG]

I don't think there is anything wrong (or unique) with the existing Lincoln strategy, but it just hasn't been done that well or consistently executed. The MKS and MKT are peculiar in more ways than one (design and form factor). I have absolutely no doubt Lincoln can make a scream of it if they just got the right combination of Ford products and design. The MKS and MKT are tied to Ford's low performers, the Taurus and Flex...these products are not registering with consumers at either end. Lincoln already has two solid performers that have done so with very little investment, MKZ and MKX. Now throw in a face lifted MKS and all new MKZ, Explorer, and Escape variants and you have some guaranteed results.

 

I'm not sure if Ford has long-term plans for Lincoln beyond basic survival, but I think Ford realize that Lincoln is a risky investment and the best way to kill a brand is to overspend to revive it.

Edited June 21, 2011 by BORG

[NickF1011]

The MKS and MKT are tied to Ford's low performers, the Taurus and Flex...these products are not registering with consumers at either end.

 

 

The Taurus has been doing just fine. The only other large car that consistently outsells it these days is the fleet queen Impala.

[silvrsvt]

 

I'm not sure if Ford has long-term plans for Lincoln beyond basic survival, but I think Ford realize that Lincoln is a risky investment and the best way to kill a brand is to overspend to revive it.

 

Are you fucking serious? :rolleyes:

 

Using that form of thinking would have lead to the Explorer going away this year...

 

Don't be so short sighted.....

 

 

 

 

 

[akirby]

I'm not sure if Ford has long-term plans for Lincoln beyond basic survival

 

Yeah, right. That's why they killed Mercury and hired a team of 85 people dedicated to the Lincoln turnaround plan and are trying to reduce the number of dealers and improve the dealership experience for customers and are developing Lincoln exclusive styling and features.

 

This is actually the first time they've had a viable plan for Lincoln that goes beyond a few badge engineered vehicles.

 

I'm not saying whether it will work or not (I think it will but not overnight) - but it certainly won't be for lack of effort this time.

[sranger]

It will be interesting to see Lincoln's new plan and see if it can be rolled out in time to save the brand.....

 

I am still trying to decide what car to get this year.... ( Might as well wait for the 2012's at this point.... )

 

I have been checking prices of the MKX and Limited Edge....

 

So far the X-PLAN Price for a loaded MKX is $47,095. The Loaded Edge Limited is $40,101. I did not include any rebates, but they seem to be about equal. So basically the MKX is seven grand more than the Edge.....

 

For that I would get the larger 3.7L engine, but 1mpg less gas mileage. Not a good traded off in my opinion because the extra weight of the 3.7 negates any noticeable performance advantage between the two...

 

So, for $7K you get:

 

Wood Trim, THX Stereo, Heated Steering wheel, Heated Rear seats, 20" vs 18" wheels ( Again a performance robber ), A little nicer looking interior. (The Edge Limited interior is pretty damn nice to start with.)

 

How many of you think the Lincoln is worth $7K more?

 

IMHO, it is not. I actually like the exterior look of the Edge over the Lincoln. The odd proportion of the grill is kind of a turn off on the MKX although I do like the look of the rear a little better on the Lincoln. I guess what I am saying is that I hope that the new Lincoln modes do truly offer more differentiation than the current models....

[akirby]

It will be interesting to see Lincoln's new plan and see if it can be rolled out in time to save the brand.....

 

Why does it need "saving"? It's doing just fine as is.

 

So, for $7K you get:

 

Wood Trim, THX Stereo, Heated Steering wheel, Heated Rear seats, 20" vs 18" wheels ( Again a performance robber ), A little nicer looking interior. (The Edge Limited interior is pretty damn nice to start with.)

 

How many of you think the Lincoln is worth $7K more?

 

IMHO, it is not. I actually like the exterior look of the Edge over the Lincoln. The odd proportion of the grill is kind of a turn off on the MKX although I do like the look of the rear a little better on the Lincoln. I guess what I am saying is that I hope that the new Lincoln modes do truly offer more differentiation than the current models....

 

You forgot free maintenance and a significantly longer warranty, more sound deadening, etc. I normally prefer the Lincolns but we did the same comparison and ended up with a 08 Limited Edge over the MkX and back then it was only a $4K difference.

 

This is what I believe Lincoln is doing. They're keeping the ATPs high on the Lincoln models even if sales volumes are low. They're resisting cutting prices and putting cash on the hood. They don't need Lincoln to be profitable right now - the Ford brand has taken care of that.

 

When they roll out the new models that do have more differentiation, better style, features, power, etc. they'll debut at the same or close the same price as the current model and everyone will marvel at how much they improved for the same price. As opposed to going for more sales now and then having to raise prices later.

 

I think long term it's the right strategy and that's why I don't put much emphasis on current sales volumes. They're artificially low but it will pay off down the road.