Ford to invest $1B to revive Lincoln

[suv_guy_19]

The new Grand Cherokee is 3rd on my list

 

Right now, it's first on my list...assuming flooding this fall doesn't cut me off from 90% of my customer base and bankrut me before I even really start into this business. Of course, I won't be buying another car for a few years anyway.

[Edstock]

The 300 MKS comparison might have some validity with the current models, however that iron-block V-8 is behind the curve of technology, whatever its apologists might say.

 

As to future models, I expect to see Lincoln distance itself clearly as money spent on interiors and glass roof systems shows up in production. Time will tell.

 

 

[papilgee4evaeva]

The 300 MKS comparison might have some validity with the current models, however that iron-block V-8 is behind the curve of technology, whatever its apologists might say.

Let's be fair here. We could say the same about the Boss engine.

[Captainp4]

I thought the new 5.0 was all aluminum...

 

Not to mention it's packed full of way more tech than that ol' pushrod motor.

 

Not that pushrod motors can't make some serious power, just not with the level of hp/L, broad power bands, emissions controls, mpg, etc available with 4v DOHC, iVCT, VVT, blah blahblah and that's before they add DI!

[Footballfan]

Ford needs to ignore what BMW is doing, what Mercedes Benz is doing, what Lexus is doing, what Cadillac is doing, etc. Why? BMW is doing what works for BMW, Mercedes Benz is doing what works for Mercedes Benz, etc. Lincoln needs to come up with their own formula and make it work. I think they should just build six core models and be done with it:

 

3 cars:

Zephyr (MKZ): This is the entry level model. Make it spacious, comfortable, and stylish. FWD and FWD/AWD is acceptable. Hybrid drive should be an option. It should pack a lot of tech features for the money as well. EUCD2 will be more than adequate for this car’s target.

 

Mark XI (MKR): This is the sport model. It needs to be a RWD, driver focused model. Give it the typical Lincoln interior and features. Put this on an all new RWD chassis. A coupe and hard top convertible should be in the cards. The platform can be shared with the Mustang and a global Falcon.

 

Continental (MKS): This is the luxury flagship. It needs to be all about pampering the driver and passengers. FWD/AWD is fine if they tune the chassis properly, it needs to be highly refined with major emphasis on ride quality and control. It doesn’t need to be sporty, just extremely quiet and comfortable.

 

3 CUV/SUVs

Admiral (MKEscape): Base it on the new Kuga/Escape platform. Like the Zephyr, it needs to be the entry level luxury car with a lot of features for the price. Give it a hybrid option.

 

Aviator (MKX): Like the Continental, this should be an all-out luxury ride focused on pampering the driver and passengers. EUCD2 is acceptable.

 

Navigator: Base it on the MKT/Flex platform, but give it more traditional SUV styling (like the Explorer). It can replace both the Navigator and MKT. It needs to be another all-out luxury model with three useable rows of space.

 

Love that plan, especially for the cars, although I would add a RWD sedan as well! I think that all things being equal, if the future Lincolns are simply a new body on Ford FWD oriented platforms, and you are looking to go head to head with BMW and Lexus and Mark Fields envisions, good luck.

[RichardJensen]

The Department of Redundancy Department wants to know why mlhm5 isn't contributing to a thread that is redundantly hopeless in its hopeless redundancy.

[papilgee4evaeva]

I thought the new 5.0 was all aluminum...

 

Not to mention it's packed full of way more tech than that ol' pushrod motor.

 

Not that pushrod motors can't make some serious power, just not with the level of hp/L, broad power bands, emissions controls, mpg, etc available with 4v DOHC, iVCT, VVT, blah blahblah and that's before they add DI!

By "Boss," I mean the 6.2. The 5.0 is the Coyote.

 

Some of the advantages that GM and Chrysler pushrod engines have that counter what you mention about OHC engines are fewer moving parts, smaller packaging, and (usually) less engine weight. (Chrysler falls short there in using an iron block for all its Hemi engines.) And they seem to naturally make more torque in most applications.

 

It all depends on what you want in an engine, I guess. If you like high revs, go with DOHC. If you like huge amounts of torque real early, go pushrod. I don't prefer one over the other, especially since I own a V6 of each valvetrain configuration.

[F250]

The 300 MKS comparison might have some validity with the current models, however that iron-block V-8 is behind the curve of technology, whatever its apologists might say.

 

As to future models, I expect to see Lincoln distance itself clearly as money spent on interiors and glass roof systems shows up in production. Time will tell.

 

So on a test drive the salesman is reciting tech stats like all-aluminum, 4-valve, double overhead cam, ti-vct, direct injection etc, ect which the customer usually acts like he understands but doesn't. While on a 300 test drive the salesman only has to ask the customer "how do you like it?" If the engine is less complicated, inexpensive, durable easy to maintain and makes good power that's not a bad thing. If you like to keep vehicles a long time aluminum blocks have a nasty habit of pulling the head bolt threads out when-not if-the head gaskets fail. That's ok though, it keeps the time-sert makers and techs happy.

 

I'm glad Lincoln will distance itself by offering a glass roof option...I like the one on the Mustang. And nicer interiors like the quality already in the F150 Platinum.

Edited June 23, 2011 by F250

[fordmantpw]

By "Boss," I mean the 6.2. The 5.0 is the Coyote.

 

Some of the advantages that GM and Chrysler pushrod engines have that counter what you mention about OHC engines are fewer moving parts, smaller packaging, and (usually) less engine weight. (Chrysler falls short there in using an iron block for all its Hemi engines.) And they seem to naturally make more torque in most applications.

 

It all depends on what you want in an engine, I guess. If you like high revs, go with DOHC. If you like huge amounts of torque real early, go pushrod. I don't prefer one over the other, especially since I own a V6 of each valvetrain configuration.

 

Interesting...the 5.4 is only SOHC, but the pushrod 5.3 had less torque down low than the 5.4.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Interesting...the 5.4 is only SOHC, but the pushrod 5.3 had less torque down low than the 5.4.

Smaller displacement too.

 

That's the weird thing about comparing the output of OHV and OHC engines... they don't compare liter-for-liter very well.

[fordmantpw]

Smaller displacement too.

 

That's the weird thing about comparing the output of OHV and OHC engines... they don't compare liter-for-liter very well.

 

 

For all intents and purposes, the two are the same displacement...within 2% in size. And the 5.4 had more than 2% more ft-lbs down low...

[Captainp4]

Ford's motors have generally had more tq down low than any of the competition since the mod motors came out..

 

However, it's not really a function of where the cam is located (or the arrangement of the cylinders as everyone always seems to think I6's make more tq than v8's.. at least I've seen that said a lot) as it is to do with cam profiles, head flow, intake runner lengths, bore/stroke, etc.

 

The advantage of having multiple cams is that you can adjust them throughout the RPM range and make the power band MUCH broader than the old pushrod motors.

 

 

I thought you meant the 5.0 in the BOSS mustang though, my mistake. The 6.2 is indeed an iron block, but that's kind of a given for use in heavy duty pickups and above.

 

Don't get me wrong, the HEMI's are nice motors, but at some point they're going to run out of useful life I think.. and they just can't compete on hp/L compared to Ford's newest DOHC motors.

[papilgee4evaeva]

For all intents and purposes, the two are the same displacement...within 2% in size. And the 5.4 had more than 2% more ft-lbs down low...

What I mean is, you'll often have to have a pushrod engine of larger displacement to match the power output of an OHC engine. So you trade packaging for specific output.

 

Ford's motors have generally had more tq down low than any of the competition since the mod motors came out..

 

However, it's not really a function of where the cam is located (or the arrangement of the cylinders as everyone always seems to think I6's make more tq than v8's.. at least I've seen that said a lot) as it is to do with cam profiles, head flow, intake runner lengths, bore/stroke, etc.

 

The advantage of having multiple cams is that you can adjust them throughout the RPM range and make the power band MUCH broader than the old pushrod motors.

 

 

I thought you meant the 5.0 in the BOSS mustang though, my mistake. The 6.2 is indeed an iron block, but that's kind of a given for use in heavy duty pickups and above.

 

Don't get me wrong, the HEMI's are nice motors, but at some point they're going to run out of useful life I think.. and they just can't compete on hp/L compared to Ford's newest DOHC motors.

Yeah, the Modulars were/are special like that. In a good way.

 

Of the three companies that produce pushrod engines (I count Bentley as one :P ), I think GM has the most advanced tech on its engines... and if I recall correctly, they're working on OHV-specific technologies to achieve the same effects as have been introduced on DOHC engines. The Hemi does seem to be the furthest behind of the three.

 

Different approaches, different characteristics, similar end results.

[atvman]

Who cares what configuration an engine is if the results are good? GM's LS engines, Chrysler's Hemi engines, Hyundai's Tau engines, Ford's Modular engines, etc are all good. They all have good power, good torque curves, and good fuel efficiency. They use different means to achieve their results, but aren't the results the most important thing?

[fordmantpw]

Who cares what configuration an engine is if the results are good? GM's LS engines, Chrysler's Hemi engines, Hyundai's Tau engines, Ford's Modular engines, etc are all good. They all have good power, good torque curves, and good fuel efficiency. They use different means to achieve their results, but aren't the results the most important thing?

 

Exactly!

[papilgee4evaeva]

Who cares what configuration an engine is if the results are good? GM's LS engines, Chrysler's Hemi engines, Hyundai's Tau engines, Ford's Modular engines, etc are all good. They all have good power, good torque curves, and good fuel efficiency. They use different means to achieve their results, but aren't the results the most important thing?

 

Exactly!

+1.

 

It can be fun to talk about the differences, as long as it doesn't devolve into "mine is bigger than yours."

 

So about Lincoln... atvman, I like your idea for the model mix. Only thing I would suggest is that if you have MKR on an all-new RWD chassis, move MKS to that same chassis (albeit stretched). There's no reason that the flagship sedan should have a less-balanced ride than the midlevel offering.

[630land]

For the all Town Car fans, they mostly sold well in NYC for 'black cars' i.e. fancy taxicbas. But, there are enough parts for Panther cars to last another 10-15 years, and by then livery companies will be more 'comfortable' buying new vehicle designs.

[ANTAUS]

Also to note, while Ford is saying they will invest $1BIL on Lincoln, that sounds like a safe number for investors. Most probably "Ford" will be paying for the majority of the R&D on a platform/vehicle/possibilities, and the $1BIl could be the cost of making it "Lincoln"... In other words spread the wealth and share resources.

[F250]

Want to bring Lincoln back?

 

 

 

 

I mean really get them talking

 

 

 

 

Get people saying "holy crap! what is that and where can I get one!"

 

 

 

Then forget glass tops and corinthian leather interiors, Who cares what the interior looks like if the car puts 'em to sleep when it drives by.

 

 

 

Lincoln needs to build cars with class like this classic Lincoln convertible..............

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok, the NHTSA frowns on suicide rear doors, but you get the idea.

[silvrsvt]

 

 

Then forget glass tops and corinthian leather interiors, Who cares what the interior looks like if the car puts 'em to sleep when it drives by.

 

 

 

 

Who said they aren't doing that? To be perfectly honest with you, the MKS was sorta half assed....the concept looked decent, then at the last minute they added the Lincoln style grill on it, which seemed sorta half assed itself. The MKT is a disappointment...the show car looked better then the production model.

 

However, the one thing to remember is that Lincoln is where Ford was back in 2005 or so...they needed new product (well any new product)..now look at Ford 6 years later...all their products are very well done now and if they aren't, they are getting replaced in a year or so.

 

I'm really curious as to how much they are going to really change the MKS and MKT with MCE's...unless they are planning a 2008 Taurus to 2010 Taurus type change for both of them, I have my doubts. The MKS is an easier fix as an MCE, but the MKT has hardpoint issues that I don't think will be addressed in a MCE.

 

 

 

 

 

[old_fairmont_wagon]

OHC's main advantage over OHV is packaging compactness. A Cam in block configuration will ALWAYS have shorter heads than an OHC engine (assuming at least a competent level of skill in design) and, as a result, will usually weigh less as well (given similar building materials). Other than that, you have a slight advantage with OHC engines for reduced valve train drag and mass, leading to a bit better responsiveness (but, again, its minimal, and can be gotten around with semi-exotic parts). Its also a little easier to do high count valves per cylinder with OHCs. Engine output is largely a function of drag, combustion chamber design, and breathing efficiency. With more exotic parts, an OHV engine can be made to breathe as well as an OHC engine.