Deanh Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 So professional auto reviewers writing for the NY Times are not only liberal, but espouse witchcraft as well? :shrug: I suppose the elitists like me who prefer manual transmissions in Ford (and other) automobiles are pretty tame by comparison! dont get me wrong, i can understand eyebrows being raised, but it sure would help to have someone there to explain ADAPTIVE transmissions to these morons, and how the gearbox operates...unfortunatekly the opinion of one reaches the ears of many, and therein lies the issue i have with some of the mag scribes...in some cases its their own bias coming through, in others , such as this its pure ignorance, and shame on ford for NOT having someone explain its "character" and having to deal with said "Knee jerk reactions", same can be said of MyFordTouch and Sync...which have been universally PANNED for demanding a "learning curve", these writers are above that apparently.....( oh, and Im a manual man as well....never seems to be ANY issues with the "simple" transmissions...except for those wondering what the pedal on the left is for ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 oh, and Im a manual man as well....never seems to be ANY issues with the "simple" transmissions...except for those wondering what the pedal on the left is for +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Surging and grinding noises no issue? Not to me. This is being reported over and over. Let us know what Ford comes up with. If the shift logic is flawed all the education in the world is not going to make a lot of people happy. All of this for a half of a mpg. Ford needs to rethink their strategy here and give better driveability. So thanks for providing where your biases are..... Grinding noises....I guess you never drove a manual before? I've driven nothing but them since I've had my licence. I still get grinding noises once in a great while if I muff a shift up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 So thanks for providing where your biases are..... Grinding noises....I guess you never drove a manual before? I've driven nothing but them since I've had my licence. I still get grinding noises once in a great while if I muff a shift up. I could be wrong, but I would bet a wet clutch system would naturally be quieter...funnily enough, the "grinding noises" ( which DO quieten over time ) are also a reflection on how quiet the car as a whole is from the get go.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtenthusiast Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) I own a 2012 Focus, one of the first Titaniums to the hands of the pre order group. I don't have any issue with the powershift transmission. It does operate (feel) different than a traditional automatic, only noticed off idle, and when reversing. When I first got it, it shuddered when you let off the brake, didn't think anything of it because I knew the clutches needed to wear in. Now that I have 3,000 miles on it it is almost non existent. Otherwise, it shifts smoother and faster than traditional slushboxes. I think since I understand the mechanics of it, and have owned many manual transmissions, I have no problem with the way it operates. It's actually quite responsive to downshift (compared to my 2010 Fusion Sport), and it's very efficient. Now that everything has had a chance to break in, I am averaging 40MPG (hand calculated) on a car rated at 37 highway, with about 10% city driving. On MyFord touch, I dont have an issue with it either, but I don't have the Navigation addition, so I think that cuts down on the problems. Edited July 19, 2011 by svtenthusiast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I own a 2012 Focus, one of the first Titaniums to the hands of the pre order group. I don't have any issue with the powershift transmission. It does operate (feel) different than a traditional automatic, only noticed off idle, and when reversing. When I first got it, it shuddered when you let off the brake, didn't think anything of it because I knew the clutches needed to wear in. Now that I have 3,000 miles on it it is almost non existent. Otherwise, it shifts smoother and faster than traditional slushboxes. I think since I understand the mechanics of it, and have owned many manual transmissions, I have no problem with the way it operates. It's actually quite responsive to downshift (compared to my 2010 Fusion Sport), and it's very efficient. Now that everything has had a chance to break in, I am averaging 40MPG (hand calculated) on a car rated at 37 highway, with about 10% city driving. On MyFord touch, I dont have an issue with it either, but I don't have the Navigation addition, so I think that cuts down on the problems. best thing ever on the My FordTouch, even with Navigation is the command "What can I say?"....then all the prompts come up. Then when you pick say "Audio" then the screen show all the "Audio" prompts....and the reason its the best thing ever?....because no matter how much i go over the system they are back the next day, but for some reason "What can I say?"....sticks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 So it seems we are blaming the driver this time around again...? No, we're blaming you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 No, we're blaming you. how bout this, my Buddy arrived with his familiy for a week or so, showed up with a damn Motorcycle helmet. The gearbox in the Aprilia is bulletproof, but a reflection of that is it has a very "positive" "heavy" "deliberate" feel to it....and unless you are told how, can be a bear to get into neutral.....so, there must be a problem with it right?.....because it doesnt feel like a Honda 600 gearbox....right?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 So, best in class fuel economy is coming at the expense of driver satisfaction. I figure something had to break with these miraculous leaps and bounds in MPGs. Ford needs to learn how to balance its mission statement, remembering that quality and satisfaction is paramount to best-in-class fuel economy. I have the automatic and I couldn't be more satisfied. Its a great transmission and if you don't own and drive the car on a daily basis you probably don't know what you're talking about. As someone pointed out, you have to let the car break in. Also I run 93 in mine and that makes it run out much smoother and quicker. I won't ever run 87 in it again. I get the same mileage and it runs so much better. I challenge any of these complainers about the transmission to ride with me and see if they can find anything to complain about. Mine runs very smooth and it has not been reflashed. I bought it in early May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Surging and grinding noises no issue? Not to me. This is being reported over and over. Let us know what Ford comes up with. If the shift logic is flawed all the education in the world is not going to make a lot of people happy. All of this for a half of a mpg. Ford needs to rethink their strategy here and give better driveability. This is a dry clutch transmission. The so called "grinding" noise is just the clutches engaging and disengaging. If the transmission was really "grinding" do you think mine would still be running after nearly 4000 miles. And it runs out smooth. The car has excellent driveability. What it doesn't need is a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks who haver never driven one trying to give their "expert" opinion on something they know nothing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 What it doesn't need is a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks who haver never driven one trying to give their "expert" opinion on something they know nothing about. Have you read half the threads In the competition forum? Time to shut down BON! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) This is a dry clutch transmission. The so called "grinding" noise is just the clutches engaging and disengaging. If the transmission was really "grinding" do you think mine would still be running after nearly 4000 miles. And it runs out smooth. The car has excellent driveability. What it doesn't need is a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks who haver never driven one trying to give their "expert" opinion on something they know nothing about. I wonder if this is another group vocal minority piss and moan artists, I can't see anything wrong with it although the only DSGs I've driven have been wet clutch in diesel Focus... should have the same feel though.... Edited July 19, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I am actually curious to drive one now. I'd rather a crisp transmission as opposed to a lazy shifting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) I am actually curious to drive one now. I'd rather a crisp transmission as opposed to a lazy shifting one. I think if there is any "fault" as such to point a finger at , its the "adaptive" aspect of the transmission. I have heard and read it takes time, I read one persone even stating 3000 miles. Now, stick a bunch of bonehead journalists in the car, first thing they do is a 0-60 or a hotlap, then jump out and throw the keys to someone else....think the trans even has half a chance to figure these guys out?????? Edited July 19, 2011 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I think if there is any "fault" as such to point a finger at , its the "adaptive" aspect of the transmission. I have heard and read it takes time, I read one persone even stating 3000 miles. Now, stick a bunch of bonehead journalists in the car, first thing they do is a 0-60 or a hotlap, then jump out and throw the keys to someone else....think the trans even has half a chance to figure these guys out?????? Look out Dean, that sounds like been an apologist or heaven forbid a cheerleader...Ooooo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I wonder if this is another group vocal minority piss and moan artists, I can't see anything wrong with it although the only DSGs I've driven have been wet clutch in diesel Focus... should have the same feel though.... I've been driving cars for 25 years and I don't make excuses for any of them. If something was wrong with the car I would say it. The only thing wrong with the transmission in the Focus is the lack of understanding on the part of those who either don't drive the car at all or have only driven it once or twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 So thanks for providing where your biases are..... Grinding noises....I guess you never drove a manual before? I've driven nothing but them since I've had my licence. I still get grinding noises once in a great while if I muff a shift up. Driven manuals all of my life and for good reason. They typically are more reliable and I never have to worry about poor shift logic or funny noises that I dont cause. You guys can sugar coat this all you want and not call the power shift an auto but that is what it is. All of the computer control in the world will never be a sub for human anticipation. I dont need to spend another 1K for it either and then pay to fix it down the road. You can buy a lot of clutches for what one of these will cost to replace long term. For those of you with no trouble good on ya. There are those with issues and that is a fact. Will it work itself out when the trans learns? Who knows. I would hate to be the beta test dummy having to find out. Its piss poor on Fords part to release these out to the public if they truely knew this was normal. Try convincing a new car buyer that his new car that surges and grinds being normal. I would hate to have that job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Driven manuals all of my life and for good reason. They typically are more reliable and I never have to worry about poor shift logic or funny noises that I dont cause. You guys can sugar coat this all you want and not call the power shift an auto but that is what it is. All of the computer control in the world will never be a sub for human anticipation. I dont need to spend another 1K for it either and then pay to fix it down the road. You can buy a lot of clutches for what one of these will cost to replace long term. For those of you with no trouble good on ya. There are those with issues and that is a fact. Will it work itself out when the trans learns? Who knows. I would hate to be the beta test dummy having to find out. Its piss poor on Fords part to release these out to the public if they truely knew this was normal. Try convincing a new car buyer that his new car that surges and grinds being normal. I would hate to have that job. Fair enough for your opinion. The simple truth is it's not that bad and it's not that hard to use and yes there's a difference between a DSG and a conventional automatic. It behaves more like a manual without the legwork. Another simple truth, cars have been and will become more complex and costs of ownership will go up as sure as anything else in any market, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) Driven manuals all of my life and for good reason. They typically are more reliable and I never have to worry about poor shift logic or funny noises that I dont cause. You guys can sugar coat this all you want and not call the power shift an auto but that is what it is. All of the computer control in the world will never be a sub for human anticipation. I dont need to spend another 1K for it either and then pay to fix it down the road. You can buy a lot of clutches for what one of these will cost to replace long term. For those of you with no trouble good on ya. There are those with issues and that is a fact. Will it work itself out when the trans learns? Who knows. I would hate to be the beta test dummy having to find out. Its piss poor on Fords part to release these out to the public if they truely knew this was normal. Try convincing a new car buyer that his new car that surges and grinds being normal. I would hate to have that job. 1. The computer controlled transmission drives the car better than you can with your stick regardless of your macho attempt to persuade everyone otherwise. In fact, the fastest Porsche 911 available right now doesn't have a stick, it has a dual clutch automatic. 2. Ford must be doing a good job of convincing a lot of new car buyers with regard to the transmission because last month the Focus was the best selling Ford car in the lineup and frankly almost all of us have no problems with the way the car runs and drives. That, apparently, is only for guys like you that have never driven the car and still hang on to the notion that a stick is always better. Newsflash, 1988 is over. Edited July 20, 2011 by BlackHorse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Fair enough for your opinion. The simple truth is it's not that bad and it's not that hard to use and yes there's a difference between a DSG and a conventional automatic. It behaves more like a manual without the legwork. Another simple truth, cars have been and will become more complex and costs of ownership will go up as sure as anything else in any market, period. i agree its not the end of the world. But they do need to do a better job educating people. One thing that puzzles me is that not just Ford but everybody seems to have to reflash this and that a few times to ever get things right. What is so hard about doing this right the first time? Gm is no better either. Im just a simple guy and as long as I can push the left pedal Im sticking to manuals as long as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 1. The computer controlled transmission drives the car better than you can with your stick regardless of your macho attempt to persuade everyone otherwise. In fact, the fastest Porsche 911 available right now doesn't have a stick, it has a dual clutch automatic. 2. Ford must be doing a good job of convincing a lot of new car buyers with regard to the transmission because last month the Focus was the best selling Ford car in the lineup and frankly almost all of us have no problems with the way the car runs and drives. That, apparently, is only for guys like you that have never driven the car and still hang on to the notion that a stick is always better. Newsflash, 1988 is over. 1. That may be true to day but it wasnt a few years back. Why does everybody have to constantly reflash the computers if they are so dang efficient? Screwed up programming? Look, Im onboard with the concept. A torque converter is a power robber and this has been proven over and over with dynos. I just wish Ford would take a little bit extra time to get the kinks worked out. 2. True, I have not driven one and chances are the average guy will not have issues. I cant help but wonder the long term effect. I keep cars a long time and drive them out and when you replace a transmission its big money. The rags and most people dont think down the road whats going to fail. You can browse he forums and there are huge threads about transmissions with the Fiesta, Focus and Mustang Mt82. Ford has not even mentioned anything about the MT82 yet. I hope they sell a ton of these cars. But they should remember the lessons of the past at the same time. 3. For me the stick is always better. You cannot justify 1100 dollar premium for another mpg. Its simple generally and more reliable long term minus the clutch. I understand most people with disagree. I know people have physical limitations or are stuck in rush hour traffic. Different strokes for different folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ok so if the drivers of the new Focus and Fiesta "have no complaints" (rainbows and unicorns included) and are perfectly fine and have no issues with grinding noises, or slamming, or other "irregularities' that are being reported by the media, then why did Ford dropped substantially in the latest JDPower, (or which ever organization)survey released a week ago stating customers were complaining about the PST and MFT ? Those are obviously some owners who are complaining right ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoser768 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 On a side note - I had an '05 Five Hundred with the CVT as a company car. It did "shift" funny. But that being said - it slammed, clunked, and made all manner of funny noises. A very poor transmission IMHO. My Five Hundred with the CVT shifts great. Slamming? Clunking? Mine has never done that. It has a little whine when temperatures get around 10F until it warms up, but nothing serious. No hunting between 5th and 6th, it can handle 5.523145663th gear. It's one of the most vilified features of the car and one of my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ok so if the drivers of the new Focus and Fiesta "have no complaints" (rainbows and unicorns included) and are perfectly fine and have no issues with grinding noises, or slamming, or other "irregularities' that are being reported by the media, then why did Ford dropped substantially in the latest JDPower, (or which ever organization)survey released a week ago stating customers were complaining about the PST and MFT ? Those are obviously some owners who are complaining right ? They are the Nittering Nabobs of Discontent I've been hearing about! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ok so if the drivers of the new Focus and Fiesta "have no complaints" (rainbows and unicorns included) and are perfectly fine and have no issues with grinding noises, or slamming, or other "irregularities' that are being reported by the media, then why did Ford dropped substantially in the latest JDPower, (or which ever organization)survey released a week ago stating customers were complaining about the PST and MFT ? Those are obviously some owners who are complaining right ? +1 Alan acknowledged as much when he was interviewed by the USA Today a couple of days ago. He also stated that Ford is working on solutions for both of those issues. He didn't state what the solutions would be, but he did acknowledge those were the two biggest reasons for the quality drop. So yes, owners are most definitely complaining. As to whether it's just a matter of better education or an actual change of some sort, we'll see. MFT is def getting a revamp, just how extensive is unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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