bzcat Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) Yeah, that 6k upcharge doesn't make sense in that scenario. Sure, it will get better fuel economy than the 3.5 EB, but it'll take forever to pay that back with diesel fuel costing more than gas. That's a popular internet myth but diesel prices are not always more expensive. In fact, almost every time I bother to check, diesel is same or cheaper than gas. This is the gas station around the corner from my house here in Los Angeles. Edited May 6, 2014 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) ^ Ouch, $6k????? If I were a buyer the standard EB will do just fine. Off topic.. I saw one new F-150 and one SD at work yesterday with Theodore Robbins paper plates. They were contractors from Ancon. Hope you were the one who moved them!! Ancon Marine.....yes, VERY familiar with them....cars were bought here but through Enterprize Leasing....the SDs were DIRECTLY through us.... Edited May 6, 2014 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 That's a popular internet myth but diesel prices are not always more expensive. In fact, almost every time I bother to check, diesel is same or cheaper than gas. This is the gas station around the corner from my house here in Los Angeles. all depends really on mileage per year....I would say 2 -3 years for someone doing 20k a year....so, Im gonna guess some will pony up for sure...REALLY curious on how the mpgs on the diesel stack up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 That's a popular internet myth but diesel prices are not always more expensive. In fact, almost every time I bother to check, diesel is same or cheaper than gas. This is the gas station around the corner from my house here in Los Angeles. I wonder how taxes play into that? I just looked at New Jersey, which has one of the lowest gas taxes, and Diesel is .20 cents more a gallon vs regular gas. In Maryland, which has a progressive gas tax, Diesel is roughly .15 cents more a gallon then regular gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 It's not a myth - the price relative to gasoline varies by geographic region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmalonehunter Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Here in PA diesel is always more than gas. Right now not so bad like 25 cents. I have seen it as much as 70 cents more over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 BZ, right now it's a little rare for diesel to be cheaper, it will go back to being 20 cents avg. higher. Gas is high right now because the past 2 months we had an unexpected shutdown of our main gasoline producing unit (FCC). Chevron & Mobil also had planned shutdowns. With us (ARCO/Tesoro) going down, it put a nasty hurt on fuel supplies for SoCal. We are almost back up to full rates (260,000 barrels a day) and GAS prices should start decreasing once the gas pool builds back up. Everybody's diesel units are/ have been running fine so that price won't drop. Diesel and Jet are the current valuable and expensive fuels out right now. Gasoline is pretty much worthless and will continue to drop in the future. There just isn't a demand anymore and with CAFE getting even stricter it's a waste product being made for free or at an expense. We are already converting most units and crude slates to make as much diesel and jet as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 That's a popular internet myth but diesel prices are not always more expensive. In fact, almost every time I bother to check, diesel is same or cheaper than gas. This is the gas station around the corner from my house here in Los Angeles. On average, right now, diesel is 36 cents per gallon higher than regular gas across the US: http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm, so, on average, it is NOT a myth that diesel is higher than gas. Where I fill up, gas is currently 30 cents cheaper, which is the closest it has been in probably 9 months. It's been running about 60 cents difference. In the 3+ years I have owned my diesel, when I have filled up, gas was never more than diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Is it true that during winter, the refineries divert feed stock towards heating oil and away from diesel? If so, I could see that creating artificial price increases in part of the year, perhaps lagging production then drags that into spring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 For some reason my "quote" button isn't working. jpd80, just speaking for my area (California) in general yes. Diesel will go up in winter months due to a home heating oil demand. We create more stove oil. Pretty much jet fuel. This does take away from the total amount of diesel that can be made. That's why you see a diesel increase in Winter. With gasoline, people drive less and the demand drops off. That's when we schedule our Turnarounds ( shut many units down for repairs, catalyst change, pigging and many other things). That's why gas usually drops in the winter time due to less demand even with our shutdowns. Let's not forget, the price of crude is the main driver of fuel cost. We cannot raise the price of gas just to make a profit. In many cases we lose money making gasoline and make it up with diesel and jet. Here's a prime example of how strictly refining isn't a money maker. Tesoro bought our BP refinery and we barely made $95 million last quarter as a company. That is sad. Think of the liability this company has with 7 refinerys and pipelines everywhere. One hiccup or accident and they are hurting real bad. I think BP made $5 billion or something like that. Exploration and drilling is where the money is at, not refining. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 BZ, right now it's a little rare for diesel to be cheaper, it will go back to being 20 cents avg. higher. Gas is high right now because the past 2 months we had an unexpected shutdown of our main gasoline producing unit (FCC). Chevron & Mobil also had planned shutdowns. With us (ARCO/Tesoro) going down, it put a nasty hurt on fuel supplies for SoCal. We are almost back up to full rates (260,000 barrels a day) and GAS prices should start decreasing once the gas pool builds back up. Everybody's diesel units are/ have been running fine so that price won't drop. Diesel and Jet are the current valuable and expensive fuels out right now. Gasoline is pretty much worthless and will continue to drop in the future. There just isn't a demand anymore and with CAFE getting even stricter it's a waste product being made for free or at an expense. We are already converting most units and crude slates to make as much diesel and jet as possible. just came back from a Utah trip....a mere 1/4 mile over State line gas prices dropped 60 cents a gallon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) ^ Yep, you can thank SCAQMD , EPA for that along with our gov't. They want the cleanest burning gas , but forget that it nets shitty fuel mileage and very difficult & expensive to make. So, they'd rather have us pay more and use more....why??? Because they (gov't) make money on every gallon we buy through taxes. The sad part is that the beginning of this year they increased tax on fuel 3 cents to make up the money they are losing on fuel sales, due to cars getting better MPG..... which they mandated through CAFE. Talk about BS. There is a clause saying they are going to make XX amount of dollars on taxing fuel. If they don't achieve that much money, they can raise taxes to get it. The people of Ca keep voting against "Big Oil" , thinking they are sticking it to them. In reality all those commercials big oil put out saying "it's not wise to vote this way because it will cost you" are TRUE. Edited May 7, 2014 by Hydro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) Down here in Australia, Diesel and gasoline are much higher (~$6.00/US Gal) and LP gas is roughly half that price but you use ~30% more gas. The nett effect is that LPgas and Diesel vehicle running costs are about two thirds that of Gasoline vehicles. My Falcon Pick Up is dedicated LP Gas with 12:1 compression and goes like a rocket but is way cheaper to run than the Gasoline 4.0 i-6 It and the Diesel Territory with 2.7V6 use about the same amount of fuel - I'd pick LP gas I-6 any day of the week.. but I digress.. Our prices in Australia are controlled by OPEC's TAPIS prices set in Indonesia where big refineries set and dominate prices. It sucks that we get scresed by higher prices but maybe it gives you guys a window into how markets will respond to higher prices. our experience has been a big shift in light trucks over to diesel and around 33% of SUvs, mostly larger but diesel cars haven really gained that much traction, people prefer efficient petrol as lower initial outlay but go opposite with heavier SUvs and trucks. The cost of fuel plays a big part in deciding factor in which engines are available, I'm betting that the US SUV and truck markets are on the cusp of accepting efficient engines - Ecoboost and diesels in certain versions where people see the need for economy, much like Jeep GC and Ram 1500. Not sur that those vehicles will have any effect on Ford, I'm betting we see a fight back with Alloy F150 and 2.7 EB V6 Edited May 8, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Down here in Australia, Diesel and gasoline are much higher (~$6.00/US Gal) and LP gas is roughly half that price but you use ~30% more gas. The nett effect is that LPgas and Diesel vehicle running costs are about two thirds that of Gasoline vehicles. My Falcon Pick Up is dedicated LP Gas with 12:1 compression and goes like a rocket but is way cheaper to run than the Gasoline 4.0 i-6 It and the Diesel Territory with 2.7V6 use about the same amount of fuel - I'd pick LP gas I-6 any day of the week.. but I digress.. Our prices in Australia are controlled by OPEC's TAPIS prices set in Indonesia where big refineries set and dominate prices. It sucks that we get scresed by higher prices but maybe it gives you guys a window into how markets will respond to higher prices. our experience has been a big shift in light trucks over to diesel and around 33% of SUvs, mostly larger but diesel cars haven really gained that much traction, people prefer efficient petrol as lower initial outlay but go opposite with heavier SUvs and trucks. The cost of fuel plays a big part in deciding factor in which engines are available, I'm betting that the US SUV and truck markets are on the cusp of accepting efficient engines - Ecoboost and diesels in certain versions where people see the need for economy, much like Jeep GC and Ram 1500. Not sur that those vehicles will have any effect on Ford, I'm betting we see a fight back with Alloy F150 and 2.7 EB V6 Curious, what's the upfront cost of diesel vs. gas vs LP gas for you? Are you diesel emissions held to the same standard as gas engines there? That's the big problem with diesels here. When you are talking a $3k-$5k (or even $6k in the Transit) upcharge for diesel AND have to pay more for fuel, it just doesn't add up. Now, in heavy duty trucks where it's $8500 to go from a gasser to a diesel is a different story because you get a much beefier tranny, more HP, and over twice the torque, but for lighter duty vehicles, it just doesn't make sense any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Down here in Australia, Diesel and gasoline are much higher (~$6.00/US Gal) and LP gas is roughly half that price ... Not disputing your statement, but that is illogical ! Unless of course, gasoline and diesel are subject to some tax that LP is not. LP is not popular in the US because the cost is high. One major snack food manufacturer (Frito-Lay) uses it on their delivery truck. I have been told that if you do an annual contract for a large quantity of LP to be delivered at a more or less constant rate (like for fleets) that it is a bit more cost effective then petrol (gasoline). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Not disputing your statement, but that is illogical ! Unless of course, gasoline and diesel are subject to some tax that LP is not. LP is not popular in the US because the cost is high. One major snack food manufacturer (Frito-Lay) uses it on their delivery truck. I have been told that if you do an annual contract for a large quantity of LP to be delivered at a more or less constant rate (like for fleets) that it is a bit more cost effective then petrol (gasoline). LP is about half the price of gas around here. ~$1.89/gallon delivered to the tank by your house around here. Gas is $3.47 and diesel is $3.79. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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