Harley Lover Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 What determines the order in which the plant votes are taken? I wonder if the union would make sure to have the plants that contain more "dissidents" vote first, in order to get a handle on their impact on the vote totals. The union could then make certain that subsequent vote totals contained enough affirmative votes to pass the agreement. It's a union, after all, so it wouldn't be beyond the realm of reality to have them "influence" later votes. I have the feeling that this is getting played out for the various parties to observe, when all along the outcome is already determined, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) Gary Walkowicz posted a letter in facebook. Seems that he wants to be UAW president so badly. "To my brothers and sisters at KCAP, Someone wrote me that people at KCAP are being told that I liked this contract and thanked Jimmy Settles for it. I know the UAW posted something like this on their Facebook page that both misquoted me and took other things I said out of context. I posted a reply on theUAW Facebook page, unless they took it down. Let me tell you the truth. In the meeting I did ...not thank Jimmy Settles, I said was opposed to this contract, and I voted NO against this contract. I still say NO. I am sending you again a copy of the letter I wrote and signed. Please don’t let anyone mislead you. I stand by what I sign my name to. Please let others at KCAP know. Thank you, Gary Walkowicz Bargaining Committeeman, Dearborn Truck Plant, Local 600 Gwalk32@att.net (313) 737-3166" Edited October 15, 2011 by weiweishen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 What determines the order in which the plant votes are taken? I wonder if the union would make sure to have the plants that contain more "dissidents" vote first, in order to get a handle on their impact on the vote totals. The union could then make certain that subsequent vote totals contained enough affirmative votes to pass the agreement. It's a union, after all, so it wouldn't be beyond the realm of reality to have them "influence" later votes. I have the feeling that this is getting played out for the various parties to observe, when all along the outcome is already determined, so to speak. Im gonna guess theres more with common sense in the UAW than the obvious morons with entitlement that wouldnt know a good deal if it slapped them on the side of the head. Sad thing is thats where our focus is, and King didnt help the cause....I say its ultimately going to be a yes vote and all will be well. Course there will still be a section dis-satisfied with the outcome...but they are welcome to leave anyways....personally they are like cancer and should be terminated.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Gary Walkowicz post a letter in facebook. Seems that he want to UAW president office so badly "To my brothers and sisters at KCAP, Someone wrote me that people at KCAP are being told that I liked this contract and thanked Jimmy Settles for it. I know the UAW posted something like this on their Facebook page that both misquoted me and took other things I said out of context. I posted a reply on theUAW Facebook page, unless they took it down. Let me tell you the truth. In the meeting I did ...not thank Jimmy Settles, I said was opposed to this contract, and I voted NO against this contract. I still say NO. I am sending you again a copy of the letter I wrote and signed. Please don’t let anyone mislead you. I stand by what I sign my name to. Please let others at KCAP know. Thank you, Gary Walkowicz Bargaining Committeeman, Dearborn Truck Plant, Local 600 Gwalk32@att.net (313) 737-3166" weiweishen, could you please edit this..."Seems that he want to UAW president office so badly seriously I tried vainly to make sense of it and came up short..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DearbornDerek Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 weiweishen, could you please edit this..."Seems that he want to UAW president office so badly seriously I tried vainly to make sense of it and came up short..... Maybe edit more then that.....As much as I hate the guy I would not even post his phone number on a public forum..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I'm in favor of leaving his phone number here. Why? The guy launched a bid to be UAW president at the 11th hour last year. If he wants to be heard, if he wants to make waves, let's get his phone number out there. Let him make waves. Nick or Robert may edit out that phone number, but I'm not going to. He should be given a surfeit of everything that he's asked for. If it doesn't convince him that he's wrong, it will at least be poetic justice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Seems that he want to UAW president office so badly Walkowitz launched a late bid to be elected UAW president in place of King last July (2010). As with King, he's fond of public pronouncements that are at right angles to reality. Unlike King, he hasn't the pragmatism to dial back the rhetoric when negotiating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Walkowitz launched a late bid to be elected UAW president in place of King last July (2010). As with King, he's fond of public pronouncements that are at right angles to reality. Unlike King, he hasn't the pragmatism to dial back the rhetoric when negotiating. He is clearly a man who loves to give the press "sound bites" and in my books, that makes him a "politician", Not a good one either,,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Walkowitz launched a late bid to be elected UAW president in place of King last July (2010). As with King, he's fond of public pronouncements that are at right angles to reality. Unlike King, he hasn't the pragmatism to dial back the rhetoric when negotiating. so it should have read " He wanted tthe UAW presidential office so bad...." ok, got it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 so it should have read " He wanted tthe UAW presidential office so bad...." ok, got it..... Are we looking at an internal power play, Walkowitz seeking controversy to strengthen his standing with disaffected rank and file? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povertyknob Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Are we looking at an internal power play, Walkowitz seeking controversy to strengthen his standing with disaffected rank and file? Chicken and egg,,,Are they disaffected because he's causing controversy.....or is he causing controversy to gain standing? Either way he's in it for #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Are we looking at an internal power play, Walkowitz seeking controversy to strengthen his standing with disaffected rank and file? Looks that way. Local 600 is the biggest local member wise and he certainly is going against King here. DTP vote count is wrapping up today and results soon like tonight or tomorrow. Then we see how much influence he does have with Ford's biggest UAW local and one closest to Ford Headquarters. If vote results are close, then agreement should squeak by, but if results are heavily NO, then it will be tough to pass this unless KCAP, and LAP really come through like AAI did. I'm not sure about LAP since they were promised product irrespective of what UAW does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) Looks that way. Local 600 is the biggest local member wise and he certainly is going against King here. DTP vote count is wrapping up today and results soon like tonight or tomorrow. Then we see how much influence he does have with Ford's biggest UAW local and one closest to Ford Headquarters. If vote results are close, then agreement should squeak by, but if results are heavily NO, then it will be tough to pass this unless KCAP, and LAP really come through like AAI did. I'm not sure about LAP since they were promised product irrespective of what UAW does. I feel for the rank and file here, they believe their leaders in good faith, take up the cause but in the struggle, it's the rank and file's income that get badly hurt while the union royalty continue to get paid...... Edited October 14, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I feel for the rank and file here, they believe their leaders in good faith, take up the cause but in the struggle, it's the rank and file's income that get badly hurt while the union royalty continue to get paid...... I surmise that the majority of Ford UAW production workers are high seniority, survived all the recent cuts because of their high seniority, and still remember the good times when there were more job classifications, more lax rules in general, COLA, and any other perks or bennies they lost during concessions. Not a lot of new blood in Ford UAW ranks. So they are in fighting mood. The younger ones are probably already planning on how they will spend all the bonus money and the grizzled veterans are spoiling for a fight. Now I've visited DTPand seen that there is fair amount of younger workers and some are college graduates and/or associate degreed, but I would imagine majority are still grizzled, set in their ways, old time UAW types that remember the good ol' days and want somewhat of a return to those times. I'm sure the bargaining leader of that local is feeding into that veteran view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Are we looking at an internal power play, Walkowitz seeking controversy to strengthen his standing with disaffected rank and file? A pretty weak one. Walkowitz has no shot at winning the IUAW presidency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) A pretty weak one. Walkowitz has no shot at winning the IUAW presidency. Well he seems intent on winning the hearts and minds of rank and file by focusing on what was lost instead of what is offered. Is he just a spoiler, drilling for the nerve without any true intent on building conditions for those he is supposedly representing? (A big mouth with no substance) Edited October 14, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I'm still stunned by the narrow-mindedness of UAW members who continue to be hung up on Alan's compensation. See, I can SOMEWHAT understand this if the membership viewed these "costs" as part of a zero-sum game--as if "any dollar spent is a dollar we can't be paid". So heavy infrastructure costs or operating expenses do limit funds available for compensation generally. (Why I like to say at work--when I try to turn off task lighting, etc....that dollar spent is a dollar gone and if budgeted as an expense, limits compensation dollars. If we could help the company reduce those expenses, they would improve profitability and improve raises/bonuses---sort of). The problem is, Alan's compensation is NOT part of a zero-sum game. First of all, the VAST, VAST majority of what he received was in exercising the stock options. The net benefit he realized is NOT (do you hear me, Pioneer? NOT) substantially an expense to Ford. They only expense to Ford was when they purchased the options on the market at what I recall was a very nominal cost. Again....it's VERY IMPORTANT to understand here: Had the overall plan failed or even merely became a little successful, Alan would have realized little or nothing. Only because the plan worked so well and Ford became profitable, with the resultant stock increases was he able to exercise the options for a positive outcome. That additional positive benefit to Alan cost Ford....nothing (and yes, he did have income tax covered, but that was through the use of additional options--it didn't cost Ford anything--more or less--when Alan exercised the options). Second, regardless of what it cost Ford, even if they had just simply given him $50 million in cash, it was NOT money that would have otherwise been given to the employees. It just wouldn't have. It would have merely been added to the bottom line. That's where the whining becomes very irritating. Alan's compensation has denied the employees nothing---this is not a situation of "you're not getting X because we already gave it to Alan". Whatever X is, Ford was either willing to give it to them or not---it has nothing to do with whether it was given to Alan. This irrational focus on his compensation has to stop if UAW membership wants to be taken seriously. Frankly, I don't think they care what people think of them. What they want is exactly what they deride and accuse Alan of doing (even though he hasn't): Get every last dime they can without regard to the consequence. People see them as greedy, lazy union workers? Don't care--give me COLA. Employee dissatisfaction can affect quality, reducing sales? Don't care---Ford's making a profit and that's mine, so give it to me. White collars got stuff back already---give me stuff, too. (Nevermind white collars got far more taken away and the big stuff was never restored to white collars and likely never will). The issue isn't what they REALLY are asking for...it's the perception of what they're asking for. UAW members ignore the effects of that perception at their peril. And before Pioneer starts complaining about it, I'm not even anti-union to begin with. I just want the UAW members to behave rationally. (You might say I don't have the right to ask UAW members to do anything. You'd be right. But, since I have the money, I also don't have to buy the cars you build. So good luck getting all the benefits you're demanding if Ford shrinks another factor in size). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Options paid as compensation are rarely if ever purchased on the open market. They're typically options to purchase treasury stock, and are reflected in diluted earnings per share numbers (that is, earnings per share assuming that all options/convertible notes were exercised). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 It is currently passing, 54% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 weiweishen, could you please edit this..."Seems that he want to be UAW president office so badly seriously I tried vainly to make sense of it and came up short..... Sorry for wrong wording. Gary competed with Bob King during the last UAW election. He failed. Since then he opposed anything proposed by Bob King. During the UAW leader meeting in Detroit after the tentative agreement was announced, Gary said the this is the best contract UAW could get. Then after he went back to UAW local 600, he started send letter, email or whatever method to advocate member to reject the contract. He even started a movement among members to impeach Bog King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Current: Wayne: even loss Chicago: big loss Flatrock: big win My guesses: Avon lake: even win KTP: unknown loss LAP: big win DTP: big loss KCAP: somewhat big win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Latest voting result from Reuters: DETROIT (Reuters) - Union leaders lobbying to win ratification for a proposed four-year contract with Ford Motor Co won new support in a close vote with five days remaining, a union online update showed on Friday. The running tally as of Friday morning was 7,529 "yes" votes and 6,385 "no" votes, according to posting by the United Auto Workers Ford Department. That is about 54 percent for and 46 percent against. Two new plant votes, including an 87-percent vote from the Twin Cities plant in St. Paul, Minnesota and 77-percent in favor from the Livonia Transmission plant near Detroit, pushed the "yes" votes up from 51 percent reported earlier on Friday. There are about 1,000 workers at the Livonia plant and about 700 at the St. Paul plant. So add Twin Cities and LTP to the yes column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Options paid as compensation are rarely if ever purchased on the open market. They're typically options to purchase treasury stock, and are reflected in diluted earnings per share numbers (that is, earnings per share assuming that all options/convertible notes were exercised). So essentially, it cost shareholders value in diluted earnings...but cost Ford nothing. Am I understanding what you're saying correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 yes. There was a huge stink about this some years back, and GAAP rules were adopted to account for options: http://www.fasb.org/st/summary/stsum123r.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Richard, have you seen this? With UAW management pushing membership to approve the deal, even warning through a posting on the group’s Facebook profile that it would seek a strike if the contract is not approved. Bloomberg is reporting that Ford has responded with a warning of its own: you strike, we will hire non-union workers. http://www.leftlanenews.com/uaw-says-no-vote-on-ford-deal-will-result-in-strike-ford-says-it-will-wire-scabs.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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