mettech Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ford's reliability stumbles in Consumer Reports' survey "...Ford's drop from 10th in the survey to 20th this year was caused by two factors: teething problems with new and redesigned models -- the Explorer, Fiesta and Focus -- and problems with new technologies, the MyFord Touch infotainment system and an automated manual transmission on the Fiesta and Focus..." Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111025/OEM01/111029935/1254#ixzz1boZnn2bZ Not good news. However, still better than GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ford's reliability stumbles in Consumer Reports' survey "...Ford's drop from 10th in the survey to 20th this year was caused by two factors: teething problems with new and redesigned models -- the Explorer, Fiesta and Focus -- and problems with new technologies, the MyFord Touch infotainment system and an automated manual transmission on the Fiesta and Focus..." Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111025/OEM01/111029935/1254#ixzz1boZnn2bZ Not good news. However, still better than GM. love it, my response to the dreaded MFT..READ THE F_IN MANUAL.....or note to ford....send someone with the car to teach people both the transmission characteristics and My For Touch.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Anyway you cut it, this isn't good news. I've had no problems with either MFT or the Powershift transmission in my 2012 Focus, but I do admit to being a bit of a techie and understand that both of these things are new and different and have to be learned. But the average American consumer, who considers a car an appliance, probably won't be as patient or so understanding. I guess being first on the block with new technology has its pitfalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Good ole RWD Mustang was tops, pulling the Ford reliability score upWARDS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tico Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Good ole RWD Mustang was tops, pulling the Ford reliability score upWARDS. Only if you got the auto trans. The german chinese manuals in the Mustangs have not been a shining moment for Ford. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Only if you got the auto trans. The german chinese manuals in the Mustangs have not been a shining moment for Ford. isolated cases.....not the norm. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 isolated cases.....not the norm. And it appears the afflicted probably should be driving Camaros, anyway. IMHO, a lot of the CR hoo-ha is from minds that just don't "get it", when it comes to the MFT system. With the up-dates and smoother operation, it will probably fade from contention, and a year from now, you'll be regarded as some kind of retard if you can't work with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Anything going viral is assumed to bea wide reaching issue. I don't know about the Mustang manuals and there is division on what the truth is. Powershift and MFT has to be taught and sold better. Powershif tis NOT a conventional TC automatic with 6 gears not 4 so yes it will shift all the time. MFT yes, requires extra time to learn. I'm sorry that new products like any new electronic device will take time to learn. Not everyone is affluent and should not be mocked for it. I know the dealers I deal with are taking the time to explain the gear. It's coming along. Now about the Focus fit and finish that was posted here: Isolated or a trend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ford's reliability stumbles in Consumer Reports' survey "...Ford's drop from 10th in the survey to 20th this year was caused by two factors: teething problems with new and redesigned models -- the Explorer, Fiesta and Focus -- and problems with new technologies, the MyFord Touch infotainment system and an automated manual transmission on the Fiesta and Focus..." Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111025/OEM01/111029935/1254#ixzz1boZnn2bZ Not good news. However, still better than GM. And way better than Porsche! Porsche showed the biggest drop of any carmaker in the survey, dropping 25 places from second best to 27th, or second worst. The magazine had test data on only two models. One of those, the redesigned Cayenne SUV, had a "terrible year." Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111025/OEM01/111029935/1254#ixzz1bozdsXRz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I need clarification..is Reliability the same as "Things Gone Wrong?" Are they saying that Ford slipped in the survey because the manual/auto transmission is NOT reliable and in need of recall for a DEFECT? Or is it "Things Gone Wrong" and thus a recall or mechanical fix is needed? The way I am trying to understand this is it appears NOTHING MECHANICAL went wrong (like a bad Toyota running out of control and needing a massive recall)..but simply a new car buyer not UNDERSTANDING how the new technology with MFT and the manual/auto Transmission work. Consumer Reports gives me the impression Ford has major reliability issues and I ASSUME its a defect. Consumer Reports seems almost one sided and unclear with this RELIABILITY accusation. Plus, wasn't this their same criticism a few months ago.? Anybody know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Anything going viral is assumed to bea wide reaching issue. I don't know about the Mustang manuals and there is division on what the truth is. Powershift and MFT has to be taught and sold better. Powershif tis NOT a conventional TC automatic with 6 gears not 4 so yes it will shift all the time. MFT yes, requires extra time to learn. I'm sorry that new products like any new electronic device will take time to learn. Not everyone is affluent and should not be mocked for it. I know the dealers I deal with are taking the time to explain the gear. It's coming along. Now about the Focus fit and finish that was posted here: Isolated or a trend? since that issue came up Ive checked every single Focus that has come in, no issues what so ever.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 No shocker here that Ford declined. Well, unless you consider the people buying the cars the problem and not the product itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I need clarification..is Reliability the same as "Things Gone Wrong?" Are they saying that Ford slipped in the survey because the manual/auto transmission is NOT reliable and in need of recall for a DEFECT? Or is it "Things Gone Wrong" and thus a recall or mechanical fix is needed? The way I am trying to understand this is it appears NOTHING MECHANICAL went wrong (like a bad Toyota running out of control and needing a massive recall)..but simply a new car buyer not UNDERSTANDING how the new technology with MFT and the manual/auto Transmission work. Consumer Reports gives me the impression Ford has major reliability issues and I ASSUME its a defect. Consumer Reports seems almost one sided and unclear with this RELIABILITY accusation. Plus, wasn't this their same criticism a few months ago.? Anybody know? heres the clarification, it doesnt work as CR thinks it should or the learning process is too steep....in their eyes that equates to the End Of The World.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 And way better than Porsche! Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111025/OEM01/111029935/1254#ixzz1bozdsXRz Well, I would guess anytime you introduce new state of art technology, the probability of quality glitches magnifies. For example, MB a few years ago ran into problems when it was one of first to introduce push button start and customers couldn't start their new MB's. BMW's I Drive system ran into problems with consumers. We will see how new start-stop technology goes over with consumers. As long as Ford spends the required time and effort to solve these issues and simplify them, I believe they will be alright. MB and BMW are doing ok now after getting past their new technology issues. CR doesn't give them glowing quality/reliability reports, but they sure do resonate with consumers and both lead luxury sales pack. As for Porsche, I have heard about engine problems with the Cayenne in particular, and PDK clutches wearing out at 15,000 miles on all their vehicles. I do find however that the build quality on Porsche is first rate and they do have a very very loyal following. Some of that loyalty has been eroded over the years, but it's still mighty strong and the Porsche Club of America is the strongest, biggest, single marquee club in America. I would suspect Porsche reliability will continue to waver next few years with new Boxster due out soon, new 911 at dealers this December, new Cajun out in 2013, and new Baby Boxster due out about same time along with new 918 hybrid and new Carrera GT type sports car go compete with Ferrari Italia/Spyder. Add in the new Panamer and Cayenne Hybrids and oh wow reliability ratings will suffer. The best way to keep your ratings up is to keep producing basically same vehicle year after year, introduce no new technology, and stretch out your total redesign cycle much longer than competition. You lose sales, but you heep CR and J.D. Power happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 heres the clarification, it doesnt work as CR thinks it should or the learning process is too steep....in their eyes that equates to the End Of The World.... The data trend is recorded each year with the subscribers/members list how many times they take the car in for issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Well, I would guess anytime you introduce new state of art technology, the probability of quality glitches magnifies. For example, MB a few years ago ran into problems when it was one of first to introduce push button start and customers couldn't start their new MB's. BMW's I Drive system ran into problems with consumers. We will see how new start-stop technology goes over with consumers. As long as Ford spends the required time and effort to solve these issues and simplify them, I believe they will be alright. MB and BMW are doing ok now after getting past their new technology issues. CR doesn't give them glowing quality/reliability reports, but they sure do resonate with consumers and both lead luxury sales pack. The best way to keep your ratings up is to keep producing basically same vehicle year after year, introduce no new technology, and stretch out your total redesign cycle much longer than competition. You lose sales, but you heep CR and J.D. Power happy. I agree generally that new equipment will have issues. I personally feel the social media can make an issue take a life of it's own and it may or may not hold up under scrutiny. The Mustang manuals, Focus fit and finish, MFT/MLT, Raptor dune-jumping for example. Anybody remember 'The Lemon'? Yes, the same vehicle year after year will improve the reating. I speak of the Crown Victoria for example. Recommended for a long long time and little to no buyers exepct a select loyal few. The market is dictating new product at an increased rate of turn-around. Customers are easily becoming bored and looking for the next big thing like the rapture is around the corner (I exaggerate for poetic licence I admit). Therefore, there will be mistakes. I hope Ford learns and improves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 As well, if you invest hard-earned money in a new car, you want it to be perfect. I took my Fiesta in for my first service and commented on the transmission, paint and I can't recall the other minor stuff but it was no big deal at the end. TSB was applied and nothing else to report. Does my 3 or 4 points add up to unreliability? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I agree generally that new equipment will have issues. I personally feel the social media can make an issue take a life of it's own and it may or may not hold up under scrutiny. The Mustang manuals, Focus fit and finish, MFT/MLT, Raptor dune-jumping for example. Anybody remember 'The Lemon'? Yes, the same vehicle year after year will improve the reating. I speak of the Crown Victoria for example. Recommended for a long long time and little to no buyers exepct a select loyal few. The market is dictating new product at an increased rate of turn-around. Customers are easily becoming bored and looking for the next big thing like the rapture is around the corner (I exaggerate for poetic licence I admit). Therefore, there will be mistakes. I hope Ford learns and improves. Ford has track record of learning and improving just as old motto of "NEVER buy a first year vehicle" never changes either. I don't think the new Focus has been a disaster like the 2000 Focus, but there are still niggly glitches that will probably not be there on the 2013 Focus. I bet even MFT will be improved and trans smoother and more predictable. I'm sure the A pillar rattle on new Explorer will not be there on 2013 model. First year buyers are the guinea pigs. Negatives to being first on block to have one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 The data trend is recorded each year with the subscribers/members list how many times they take the car in for issues. in that case it doesnt surprize me being that custmers are coming back 4-5 times to be shown the same things, have changed their phones and need re-sync-ing etc etc etc....if ANYTHING is considered an inconveinience its an issue..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) Anyway you cut it, this isn't good news. I've had no problems with either MFT or the Powershift transmission in my 2012 Focus, but I do admit to being a bit of a techie and understand that both of these things are new and different and have to be learned. But the average American consumer, who considers a car an appliance, probably won't be as patient or so understanding. I guess being first on the block with new technology has its pitfalls. I have the powershift transmission and I wouldn't take another one for free; its been nothing but trouble. It lunges, the clutches rattle and the whole car shudders at 40 mph. The shop foreman at my dealers isists that it's all normal. I've driven two other brand new Focus cars on the lot and neither of them did any of the things that mine does. The shop foreman still insists that it's normal. He's even taken a ride in the car with me, felt and heard all of the things I described and even called Ford Motor Co and they still insist that its normal. My response is "If its normal than why aren't the other new cars on the lot doing the same thing and why didn't it do this when I bought the car?" Frankly if this normal then Ford engineered a real piece of junk. The regional Ford rep has been notified. Very disappointed in my Focus. Edited October 25, 2011 by BlackHorse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 in that case it doesnt surprize me being that custmers are coming back 4-5 times to be shown the same things, have changed their phones and need re-sync-ing etc etc etc....if ANYTHING is considered an inconveinience its an issue..... You got it....unexpected visits to dealer over MFT and klunky acting clutchless manual trans are deemed as issues in that they are INCONVENIENT to consumer and will show up on surveys. There is nothing convenient about showing up at dealer at 7AM in order to have any issue looked at and hopefully remedied. When consumer as in Focus/Fiesta clutchless manual is told it will smooth out over time, and don't worry about it, they probably leave dealership pissed off. I have two friends now with new Focus with this trans, and both are still complaining after more than 3,000 miles. I've told them that this is the way trans acts, but they are still unhappy. Biggest complaint from them is leaving from light as it turns green as in rolling stop. You press the accelerator and glaring lag time before trans reacts with those behind you pissed off. Almost like pulling clutch out too soon on manual, stalling it, and quickly restarting it and taking off. Hopefully Ford can come up with new software program and smooth it out and reduce the lag time. Right now it's the price they pay for 4 more miles/gallon city and probably highway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 You got it....unexpected visits to dealer over MFT and klunky acting clutchless manual trans are deemed as issues in that they are INCONVENIENT to consumer and will show up on surveys. There is nothing convenient about showing up at dealer at 7AM in order to have any issue looked at and hopefully remedied. When consumer as in Focus/Fiesta clutchless manual is told it will smooth out over time, and don't worry about it, they probably leave dealership pissed off. I have two friends now with new Focus with this trans, and both are still complaining after more than 3,000 miles. I've told them that this is the way trans acts, but they are still unhappy. Biggest complaint from them is leaving from light as it turns green as in rolling stop. You press the accelerator and glaring lag time before trans reacts with those behind you pissed off. Almost like pulling clutch out too soon on manual, stalling it, and quickly restarting it and taking off. Hopefully Ford can come up with new software program and smooth it out and reduce the lag time. Right now it's the price they pay for 4 more miles/gallon city and probably highway. Mine has just turned 8000 miles and the transmission is worse now than it was before. So I'm not buying the "give it time to break in" nonsense. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) The problems with MFT/MLT is NOT the user's fault. Steve Jobs is famous for saying "We are the idiots if the customer can't use our product". And that's assuming the root of the problem is in the UI, and not just the software and hardware...but it's both! Admittedly, Ford's UI isn't half bad but it's still far too complex and non-intuitive outside of the color-coded quadrant idea (thanks Audi!) The rest of the mechanical and assembly problems are the result of Ford neglecting, marginalizing, or loosing grip of the system that saw them through the spectacularly successful launches of the CD3 and D3 cars over the past 6-7 years. That's gone, no more holding cars back at the factory until they are prefect...they have become reckless because they have started to believe their own hype and mythology. I've never seen Ford look this incompetent since the Focus and Escape launches in 2000/2001....you gotta love that symmetry. Edited October 25, 2011 by BORG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryQW Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 You don't go to the bottom of the reliabilty list without a reason. Ford's laser focus has diffused. They (and we on this board) need to listen instead of making excuses, otherwise you don't improve. Ford needs to get back to what they were doing before that got them high on the list already. Put simply: Mouths humble; ears open; hands working; Fix the problems quickly Ford! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 The problems with MFT/MLT is NOT the user's fault. Steve Jobs is famous for saying "We are the idiots if the customer can't use our product". And that's assuming the root of the problem is in the UI, and not just the software and hardware...but it's both! Admittedly, Ford's UI isn't half bad but it's still far too complex and non-intuitive outside of the color-coded quadrant idea (thanks Audi!) The rest of the mechanical and assembly problems are the result of Ford neglecting, marginalizing, or loosing grip of the system that saw them through the spectacularly successful launches of the CD3 and D3 cars over the past 6-7 years. That's gone, no more holding cars back at the factory until they are prefect...they have become reckless because they have started to believe their own hype and mythology. I've never see Ford look this incompetent since the Focus and Escape launches in 2000/2001....you gotta love that symmetry . But they did fix the problems and Escape today is one of Ford's top sellers. However, Ford needs to get a handle on this very quickly as Focus took years to recover from terrible 2000 launch and hopefully new Focus goes nothing like 2000 launch went which was disaster. To this day, Focus never fully recovered from that launch. I believe initially the Focus sold in 260,000/year range and hasn't hit that number since. It also garnered a younger crowd with KONA and SONY Focus models, but that was lost, especially after the tepid redesign and dropping of hatch and wagon and of course many problems first couple years. Now Ford really needs a good launch on 2012 Focus, and it not which seems to be case, at least solving PERCEIVED problems no later than 2013 MY before it gets out of hand. In fact, all problems should be taken care of before adding third ship in next few months. Even if it means recalibrating clutchlesss trans and losing a few miles/gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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