mustang let back Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 That's really not what they were doing at all in the extensive thread I read over there. Aside from a few people (every forum has their blind fanboys), it was very civil with a good amount of people saying that this is the offspring of competition. And what makes you think the GT650 will "obliterate" the ZL1? You, as well as everyone else, haven't driven either . Horsepower is not the deciding factor as to how well a vehicle will perform. Remember the 3/4 ton pickup shootouts? Let's just wait until the reviews come in before crowning a winner. when i went back to that forum over there they took that part down,so you didnt read that part of it.there was well over 25 pages of comments there.the GT500 is 270lbs lighter,and it has more power.the BOSS 302 with 444hp with its launch control according to road & track may 2011 the BOSS did 0-60 4.1,and the 1/4 mile 12.3.the zl1 with the auto does 3.9,and it has 580hp.so what does that tell you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hats off to Ford for both the improvements to the car and their strategy & ability to keep the HP number concealed and thereby generate a huge WOW factor at the show. And from what I have seen the auto blogs and car forums are absolutely buzzing over the reveal of the car so much that: 1) the Chief Design Engineer of Camaro at GM has literally posted an open letter on Camaro forums to calm the ZL1 crowd and restore some hope that their car hasn't just been put on the traIler by the upcoming GT500 and 2) GM Global VP of Marketing, Joel Ewanick, issues public challenge to Ford to show up and race Camaro vs Mustang at Nurburing; Farley merely replies that he wishes they could http://jalopnik.com/5859957/the-shelby-gt500s-chicken-new-lincoln-mks-and-the-la-auto-show?tag=the-morning-shift Clearly GM brass is feeling the need to try to put some confidence back in their ZL1 product to the press & public in general. IMO, very similar to how our political parties go about doing damage control by mudding the waters with posturing and claiming you just wait and see. No doubt, with Ford releasing in the middle of the night the 650HP spec it crushed GM's planned big annoucement the next morning of ZL1 pricing, full specs & convertible reveal @ LA. Sounds like Farley saw a chance to "take a bat" to GM and he didn't hesitate. Well played Ford, it was an overwhelming PR victory Oh, and autoweek today named the GT500 Top Car at the LA auto show http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/11/top-10-cars-of-the-2011-la-auto-show.html Camaro Nation: As you know, the blogs lit up with the announcement of the new 650-horsepower Mustang GT500, and I wanted to give you my perspective on the latest challenge from Dearborn. The Mustang has been playing catch up since the moment the fifth-gen Camaro arrived in 2009. Since then, Camaro has been the best-selling sports car in America, indicating that consumers know which car offers the best performance, style and safety. It is no coincidence that Mustang has introduced three 100-horsepower increases to keep pace with Camaro: First their V-6 was bumped to 305; then their V-8 went to 412, and now the GT500. Even with the 100-hp increase, the 2013 GT500 will still not match the technology and sophistication of the 2012 Camaro ZL1. The days of “no replacement for displacement,” are over, and it’s not enough to be fast in a straight line. With the Camaro ZL1, we set out to deliver integrated performance, and be equally good at acceleration, braking, grip, and turning. As you will soon see, that’s why the Camaro ZL1 will set the performance benchmark for the segment. Our approach was to make every Camaro ZL1 fully track-capable, from the factory. As we announced today, the ZL1 Coupe will start at $54,995 with standard Magnetic Ride Control, standard Performance Traction Management, and standard track-capable equipment such as a rear-differential cooler, brake cooling ducts, and an engine and transmission cooler. None of our customers will have to buy extra options – or modify their ZL1 – for track-day usage. That is not the case for the current GT500, or their new car. For Mustang fans, you’re welcome. Clearly the Camaro has encouraged Ford to throw everything they can at us. For Camaro fans, trust me, we are always listening to your feedback, and working hard to keep the Camaro in the lead. Al O. Ford just released a similar statement: Since we’re in the giving mood these days, we at Ford Motor Company would like to extend a “you’re welcome” to the Camaro fans out there as well. It’s obvious that the Camaro wouldn’t exist today if it weren’t for us rejuvenating the segment back in 2005. When GM abandoned all of you Camaro fans in 2003, we were more than willing to embrace you and welcome you into the Ford family. Remember, it was us who kept the segment alive. In fact, we created this segment back in 1964 with the original Mustang. That car set sales records that still stand today. It was so successful that it left GM scrambling to compete, which lead to the original Camaro. You’re welcome for that. Remember, we were also the first to introduce a powerful supercharged V8 into this segment, even when we clearly had no competition. Remember the 2003 Cobra? The 2007 GT500? It’s cars like them that lead to the development of the Camaro ZL1. You’re welcome for that. We’d also like to say “you’re welcome” for being the first to develop a track ready pony car. It started with the Cobra R models and continues on today with the Boss 302 and the GT500. As long as Ford Motor Company sets the standard in this segment, we’re sure GM will continue to follow us. For whatever the next Mustang model or feature is that GM comes out with two years later, we’d like to extend an early you’re welcome. We were considering saying “you’re welcome” for going into Washington and supporting GM in their quest for bailout money, but we thought that might be a bit of a low blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Ford just released a similar statement: Since we’re in the giving mood these days, we at Ford Motor Company would like to extend a “you’re welcome” to the Camaro fans out there as well. It’s obvious that the Camaro wouldn’t exist today if it weren’t for us rejuvenating the segment back in 2005. When GM abandoned all of you Camaro fans in 2003, we were more than willing to embrace you and welcome you into the Ford family. Remember, it was us who kept the segment alive. In fact, we created this segment back in 1964 with the original Mustang. That car set sales records that still stand today. It was so successful that it left GM scrambling to compete, which lead to the original Camaro. You’re welcome for that. Remember, we were also the first to introduce a powerful supercharged V8 into this segment, even when we clearly had no competition. Remember the 2003 Cobra? The 2007 GT500? It’s cars like them that lead to the development of the Camaro ZL1. You’re welcome for that. We’d also like to say “you’re welcome” for being the first to develop a track ready pony car. It started with the Cobra R models and continues on today with the Boss 302 and the GT500. As long as Ford Motor Company sets the standard in this segment, we’re sure GM will continue to follow us. For whatever the next Mustang model or feature is that GM comes out with two years later, we’d like to extend an early you’re welcome. We were considering saying “you’re welcome” for going into Washington and supporting GM in their quest for bailout money, but we thought that might be a bit of a low blow. Excellent reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) so what does that tell you? To wait before waving the fanboy flag. I will point this out though: The Camaro is at a severe disadvantage when compared to the Mustang as the Mustang doesn't have a sports car sitting above it. Really, what's limiting the potential of the Camaro is the Corvette. So, really, it should be expected that the Camaro performs worse because of that advantage Ford has. If, when the reviews come in, the Camaro is close, equal, or even better than the Mustang in terms of performance, it really shows how strong of a car the Camaro really is. I'm just glad we are witnessing proper HP wars at a time when the government wants to eliminate horsepower and replace it with kW. Edited November 20, 2011 by Boss444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 To wait before waving the fanboy flag. I will point this out though: The Camaro is at a severe disadvantage when compared to the Mustang as the Mustang doesn't have a sports car sitting above it. Really, what's limiting the potential of the Camaro is the Corvette. So, really, it should be expected that the Camaro performs worse because of that advantage Ford has. If, when the reviews come in, the Camaro is close, equal, or even better than the Mustang in terms of performance, it really shows how strong of a car the Camaro really is. I'm just glad we are witnessing proper HP wars at a time when the government wants to eliminate horsepower and replace it with kW. And the Tesla EV Roadster beats both of them to 60mph and outhandles both of them. The only problem is that EV doesn't make the delightful noise of an internal combustion racing engine. Most of the LMP racing cars next year or soon after will be full hybrids. Who knows...full electrics may make not only for faster racing cars, but much more reliability with far less moving parts. In passenger locomotives, electrics are not only much faster,but pull much bettter. Even with freight locomotives, they are all full hybrids. Change is not a horrible development. Steam locomotives were gone completely by the 50's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 And the Tesla EV Roadster beats both of them to 60mph and outhandles both of them. ... at twice the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang let back Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 To wait before waving the fanboy flag. I will point this out though: The Camaro is at a severe disadvantage when compared to the Mustang as the Mustang doesn't have a sports car sitting above it. Really, what's limiting the potential of the Camaro is the Corvette. So, really, it should be expected that the Camaro performs worse because of that advantage Ford has. If, when the reviews come in, the Camaro is close, equal, or even better than the Mustang in terms of performance, it really shows how strong of a car the Camaro really is. I'm just glad we are witnessing proper HP wars at a time when the government wants to eliminate horsepower and replace it with kW. a win is a win.im not concerned about what disadvantage the CRAPMARO has.i hate the government as much as the next person.the new world order puts us all at a disadvantage. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang let back Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Excellent reply! that is a great come back from FORD!!the thing about it,its the whole truth and nothing but the truth. :happy feet: :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Ford just released a similar statement: Since we’re in the giving mood these days, we at Ford Motor Company would like to extend a “you’re welcome” to the Camaro fans out there as well. It’s obvious that the Camaro wouldn’t exist today if it weren’t for us rejuvenating the segment back in 2005. When GM abandoned all of you Camaro fans in 2003, we were more than willing to embrace you and welcome you into the Ford family. Remember, it was us who kept the segment alive. In fact, we created this segment back in 1964 with the original Mustang. That car set sales records that still stand today. It was so successful that it left GM scrambling to compete, which lead to the original Camaro. You’re welcome for that. Remember, we were also the first to introduce a powerful supercharged V8 into this segment, even when we clearly had no competition. Remember the 2003 Cobra? The 2007 GT500? It’s cars like them that lead to the development of the Camaro ZL1. You’re welcome for that. We’d also like to say “you’re welcome” for being the first to develop a track ready pony car. It started with the Cobra R models and continues on today with the Boss 302 and the GT500. As long as Ford Motor Company sets the standard in this segment, we’re sure GM will continue to follow us. For whatever the next Mustang model or feature is that GM comes out with two years later, we’d like to extend an early you’re welcome. We were considering saying “you’re welcome” for going into Washington and supporting GM in their quest for bailout money, but we thought that might be a bit of a low blow. Wow, that is good. My favorite part is: "For whatever the next Mustang model or feature is that GM comes out with two years later, we’d like to extend an early you’re welcome." Priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 that is a great come back from FORD!!the thing about it,its the whole truth and nothing but the truth. :happy feet: :happy feet: I wrote that as a joke, Ford had no part in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang let back Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I wrote that as a joke, Ford had no part in it. i figured that,i couldnt find it anywhere but here.nice though.And its the truth. :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The Camaro is at a severe disadvantage when compared to the Mustang as the Mustang isn't based on an overweight sedan platform. at a time when the government wants to eliminate horsepower and replace it with kW. The government is trying to go metric again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fou_bleu Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The government is trying to go metric again? Why not? :P (Honestly, though, where is the advantages of the imperial system?) Also, I like how people bash the Camaro for sharing a heavy sedan platform with the Commodore, yet we want to merge the Falcon and Mustang... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 ... yet we want to merge the Falcon and Mustang... Not me! Bringing the Falcon over? I could dig that. As a Mustang? Absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why not? :P (Honestly, though, where is the advantages of the imperial system?) Also, I like how people bash the Camaro for sharing a heavy sedan platform with the Commodore, yet we want to merge the Falcon and Mustang... nah, we just want it all, Control blade AND lighter curb weight...and I beleive BOTH my wishes will be answered.....how much does the Falcon weigh anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why not? :P (Honestly, though, where is the advantages of the imperial system?) Also, I like how people bash the Camaro for sharing a heavy sedan platform with the Commodore, yet we want to merge the Falcon and Mustang... I honestly expect Ford to do a better job of integrating a different chassis for each model. Look at the Fox platform: Mustang, Mark VII, and everything in between. The Commodore wasn't very flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fou_bleu Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Not me! Bringing the Falcon over? I could dig that. As a Mustang? Absolutely not. I meant in the same way as the Camaro is made off Zeta (Commodore). nah, we just want it all, Control blade AND lighter curb weight...and I believe BOTH my wishes will be answered.....how much does the Falcon weigh anyways? A bit more than the Commodore - the Falcon starts at about 1704kg (3756lb) for the MkII XT while the Commodore Series II Omega starts at 1690kg (3725lb) - room for big improvement IMO... I honestly expect Ford to do a better job of integrating a different chassis for each model. Look at the Fox platform: Mustang, Mark VII, and everything in between. The Commodore wasn't very flexible. Oh, so do I and I think they are more than capable of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Honestly, though, where is the advantages of the imperial system? Chiefly these: Not having to alter title deeds for 3.7 million square miles, the pumps at over 110,000 gas stations and so on and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) Why not? :P (Honestly, though, where is the advantages of the imperial system?) What advantage does Metric system have?(Don't use the base 10 argument) Certainly isn't accuracy as both can be reduced to an infinite number of place values. So tired of hearing people bitch about the imperial system with their thinly veiled patriotism. Why do you, a non-resident, care about what our speedometers, maps, and thermostats say?(Rhetorical question) Edited November 22, 2011 by GT-Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 A bit more than the Commodore - the Falcon starts at about 1704kg (3756lb) for the MkII XT while the Commodore Series II Omega starts at 1690kg (3725lb) - room for big improvement IMO... The Camaro gained weight over the Commodore? Drivetrain Rear Wheel Drive Curb Weight (lbs) 3849 City (MPG) 16 Hwy (MPG) 24 Horsepower 426@5900 Torque (lb-ft) 420@4600 Wheelbase 112.3 Length (in.) 190.4 Width (in.) 75.5 Height (in.) 54.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fou_bleu Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 What advantage does Metric system have?(Don't use the base 10 argument) Certainly isn't accuracy as both can be reduced to an infinite number of place values. So tired of hearing people bitch about the imperial system with their thinly veiled patriotism. Not sure, but it's obvious that the world agrees with you on imperial usage (green is metric): http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=70061&f=20&view=unread Oh, never mind, just behind the times as usual! (Only poking fun, don't get all huffy and puffy! :P) Oh, and an American complaining about others patriotism? Get off the weeeed, maaaan! Why do you, a non-resident, care about what our speedometers, maps, and thermostats say?(Rhetorical question) I can answer it anyway - I don't as I was just asking a simple question, not telling you to change... Anyways, we should get back on topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPV GTHO Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The Camaro gained weight over the Commodore? Drivetrain Rear Wheel Drive Curb Weight (lbs) 3849 City (MPG) 16 Hwy (MPG) 24 Horsepower 426@5900 Torque (lb-ft) 420@4600 Wheelbase 112.3 Length (in.) 190.4 Width (in.) 75.5 Height (in.) 54.2 The V8 Commodores would be closer to 1800kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Not sure, but it's obvious that the world agrees with you on imperial usage (green is metric): http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=70061&f=20&view=unread Oh, never mind, just behind the times as usual! (Only poking fun, don't get all huffy and puffy! :P) Oh, and an American complaining about others patriotism? Get off the weeeed, maaaan! I can answer it anyway - I don't as I was just asking a simple question, not telling you to change... Anyways, we should get back on topic... somebody needs to have a talk to northern and Southern Ireland...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) What advantage does Metric system have?(Don't use the base 10 argument) Why not use the base 10 argument? It's one that makes infinite sense! That said, I really don't care what standard we use here as I know them both already anyway :shrug: About the only place where metric is undesirable is when round-off errors might be of concern (see the first-gen Patriot missile system for example). Edited November 22, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 What advantage does Metric system have? I've always assumed part of the popularity of the Metric system has to do with 153mm sounding bigger than 6 inches. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.