2013 Ford Escape World Debut

[akirby]

However I wish they would of would've changed some of the switchgear (or at least the gauges) to not be the same as the Focus.

 

Fixed.

 

And why would they go to the trouble and expense to make it unique from the Focus? It doesn't make sense to make it unique just to be unique.

[svtenthusiast]

Fixed.

 

And why would they go to the trouble and expense to make it unique from the Focus? It doesn't make sense to make it unique just to be unique.

 

Thanks grammar police.

 

 

Maybe they should go through the trouble and expense so people don't feel like they are driving a Focus.

Edited November 18, 2011 by svtenthusiast

[fordmantpw]

Thanks grammear police.

 

 

Maybe they should go through the trouble and expense so people don't feel like they are driving a Focus.

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

Chances are, they won't even know the Focus looks the same. Focus and Escape buyers most-likely aren't cross shopping, so they wouldn't know. And even if they did, why would it matter? If the interior is good, why change it?

Edited November 18, 2011 by fordmantpw

[NickF1011]

Are C-Max owners going to be complaining that their car has an Escape interior when it launches?

[FordBuyer]

That was certainly true with the mazda3 I had, then I added summer performance tires and lowered it.. I could count the pebbles on the road, but it was the best handling vehicle I've ever driven. I didn't much mind the ride/noise, as you can see from my other vehicles, they're all trucks, so it still rode better and was quieter than them! Road noise on longer highway trips when you got up to 75+ on the highway got old after a while though.

 

 

Summer, performance tires are notoriously noisy on the road, especially when wearing out. The Bridgestone Potenzas on my Boxster are noisier than hell as rear tires are very wide and wearing out. New tires quiet things down a bit, but noise is the price you pay for performance. However, the sweet noise of a Flat 6 drowns out obtrusive tire noise in no time.

[RichardJensen]

In other words, some of the hardware changes he pushed for were money wasted.

Wasn't he the guy that pushed for IRS in the Expedition/Explorer?

 

Also, it seems that he got window-seated shortly after Mulally came aboard and then retired at a relatively early age (mid 50s).

 

He did it by driving those values into the teams, and developing objective methods to measure things which might ordinarily be considered subjective.

 

I'm a process guy, and Parry-Jones seems to have played a key role in implementing better processes; however, I wonder how good those processes would be without Stewart's involvement.

[akirby]

Thanks grammar police.

 

 

Maybe they should go through the trouble and expense so people don't feel like they are driving a Focus.

 

But they are driving a Focus - a taller, AWD Focus wagon.

[FordBuyer]

Jackie Stewart did have some influence on the handling performance of Ford vehicles, but it's really hard to judge how much. He was very rough in his clinics and spared no mercy on even the most minor issues if he was upset. On one occasion, I was in the car with him when he was debriefing and Engineering Director about the drive of a newly-introduced car. There was a light mist; the car was idling; the interval wipers were going. And in typical Ford fashion at the time -- due in part to buying the cheapest rubbber blades they could find -- they were going "screech, screech, screech" everytime they swiped. Jackie's face turned redder and redder during the debrief, until he finally said "Do you know how f****ing irrating those f***ing wipers are? Don't you think the customers will notice?" I tried to supress a smile in the back seat because he had just hit on one of my pet peeves. And, as we've found out with MyFordTouch, irritants can affect the customer's perception of the quality of the total vehicle.

 

But despite the tough reviews, when an outside consultant is trying to pass his expertise, it doesn't often translate into positive action inside the company. His commentary didn't result in formalized actions that can be spread across the board, but rather specific actions on a specific product. You really need someone who is in an operating position inside the company to stand up and make the difference. Better yet if the person has cost and profit responsibility.

 

I support Biker's contention that Richard Parry-Jones was very influental. He was exceptionally well versed technically, really had a total "backside feel" for exactly what a car was doing, and formalized -- first in Europe and then in NA when he was promoted -- Ford signature handling. He did it by driving those values into the teams, and developing objective methods to measure things which might ordinarily be considered subjective. And he pushed hard to get what he wanted; with his VP stripes, he often won. I think we are seeing his legacy now.

 

But.....because Richard was a perfectionist, he sometimes pushed too hard for hardware that might have made a difference to him, but had absolutely no impact whatsoever on the customer. In other words, some of the hardware changes he pushed for were money wasted.

 

At any rate, Ford cars are certainly better drivers than they used to be.

 

 

Richard Perry Jones was not a favorite of Ford designers and designer-checkers. If a checker questioned a part and its durability and had ways to improve it, Jones would ask the checker only one question: Will it work? That's all the dude cared about. Will the frickin part work. He was the opposite of perfectionist. Enough said about him. As for Jackie Stewart, don't know about his involvement about Ford vehicles and handling, but in Senna movie when Senna was interviewed by Stewart, I thought Senna was going to rip off his microphone and hit Stewart with it. I got the feeling F1 drivers had no love for Stewart. Stewart was a great F1 race driver at a time when it was much more dangerous than now, but Senna was loved by his peer group, and if Senna hated you there was something wrong with you. Senna even stopped in a race he was winning and risked his own life to pull fellow driver out of burning race car. And Stewart had the gall to question Senna's judgement when trying to beat another driver to a corner. He deserved the lecture Senna gave him. And Stewart should have had the guts to apologize to Senna and said nothing instead. Stewart was totally out of line as Senna is considered by many to be the greatest F1 driver of all time bar none. You didn't even have to see that distinctive Senna helmet to know that Senna was driving that car. And the F1 cars were pushing 1,000hp when he drove and still very dangerous as Senna and other driver died at that F1 venue.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Richard Perry Jones was not a favorite of Ford designers and designer-checkers. If a checker questioned a part and its durability and had ways to improve it, Jones would ask the checker only one question: Will it work? That's all the dude cared about. Will the frickin part work. He was the opposite of perfectionist. Enough said about him. As for Jackie Stewart, don't know about his involvement about Ford vehicles and handling, but in Senna movie when Senna was interviewed by Stewart, I thought Senna was going to rip off his microphone and hit Stewart with it. I got the feeling F1 drivers had no love for Stewart. Stewart was a great F1 race driver at a time when it was much more dangerous than now, but Senna was loved by his peer group, and if Senna hated you there was something wrong with you. Senna even stopped in a race he was winning and risked his own life to pull fellow driver out of burning race car. And Stewart had the gall to question Senna's judgement when trying to beat another driver to a corner. He deserved the lecture Senna gave him. And Stewart should have had the guts to apologize to Senna and said nothing instead. Stewart was totally out of line as Senna is considered by many to be the greatest F1 driver of all time bar none. You didn't even have to see that distinctive Senna helmet to know that Senna was driving that car. And the F1 cars were pushing 1,000hp when he drove and still very dangerous as Senna and other driver died at that F1 venue.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1I_gY5jGHM

 

 

Walter Hayes & Colin Chapman were the greatest they caused a massive profits boom in Europe when Ford won just about every thing in motorsport when Ford raced it at the weekend and won, then you could buy a more basic model at your local Ford dealers on a Monday morning.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkdOx2tKpz4

 

Jackie Stewart was both a great ambassador for both Ford and F1, along with Jim Clark and James Hunt were my favourite British drivers in F1, Senna is still my all time favourite driver of all time. I absolutely loathe hate the modern prima donna drivers like Lewis Hamilton that are just machines with no personality and charm what-so ever. I have worked with a few Engineers that worked now for McLaren whose factory is just a few miles from my house. One of the original founders of Mclaren Tyler Alexander lives up my road l often talk to him reminisce about F1, he started out their mechanic in Can-Am racing.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds

[RichardJensen]

Ah, Can-Am.

 

The one series in which Chevy dominated, largely due to the disinterest of Ford.

[FordBuyer]

Those were the days Jelly. Jimmy Clark was my favorite race driver growing up, especially with my Dad working for Ford and Clark's connection to Ford. And in the 70's Jochen Rindt was my favorite driver. In the 80's Aryton Senna was my favorite. All died doing what they they loved to do and all were unbelievably fast and always pushed the vehicle to its limits. Was lucky enough to see all race in person. Now my favorites are Patrick Long and Bergermeister who race for Porsche. Bergermeister especially if you saw the ALMS race on ABC where he hounded the BMW in second place lap after lap and finally got around him and refused to let the BMW repass him at end of Petite Lemans. IMO, the GT class with Porsche, BMW, Corvette, and Ferrari is the best racing right now in world. Even better and more competitive than the great Mustang/Camaro rivalry in Trans-Am Series of 70's with Parnelli Jones and the great Mark Donahue going at it. Was lucky enough to see those two go at it also. Unfortunately, Donahue ended up like Clark, Rindt, and Senna.

[Boss444]

Thing to keep in mind here is that this vehicle needs to appeal globally, not just in the U.S., so overdone "American" language with lots of chrome and boxy edges may not have done it elsewhere. Recall how well the Maverick sold in Europe?

 

Oh no...I understand that...I am advocating for unique skins in Europe and unique skins in N/A. Again, differentiation on the level of the Flex and MKT

 

 

Skins perhaps. Completely unique subframes and greenhouses (which would be needed to design it how you would prefer)? Probably not.

 

Exactly. Share the expensive bits, but have unique sheet metal.

[stpatrick90]

And a lot of us don't, congratulations Ford, a lot of us who would have bought the previous escape now won't buy this one.

 

 

Let the Socialists over there keep their euro-trash.

 

Socialists? Really you use that as a defense? Laughable and naive at best.

It is hilarious every time Ford changes the design of something there is a select group of individuals that 'spaz' out as if the world is coming to a end. Yet despite these individuals everything is always okay. A select group of individuals also said the Explorer would be a failure and would never buy one yet now it is selling in excess of 10,000 units most months. Luckily there is always the Jeep Patriot or Liberty for people who still want a box on wheels.

[Deanh]

Are C-Max owners going to be complaining that their car has an Escape interior when it launches?

Im all for the interior "family" similarities...nice to jump from one Ford to another and know EXACTLY where a certain control is.....

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Ah, Can-Am.

 

The one series in which Chevy dominated, largely due to the disinterest of Ford.

 

 

Gotta say l know absolutely nothing about Can-Am other than Mclaren won it a few times and Bruce Mclaren who won it, died here in Goodwood which absolutely gutted the McLaren team at the time.

 

 

[Deanh]

Summer, performance tires are notoriously noisy on the road, especially when wearing out. The Bridgestone Potenzas on my Boxster are noisier than hell as rear tires are very wide and wearing out. New tires quiet things down a bit, but noise is the price you pay for performance. However, the sweet noise of a Flat 6 drowns out obtrusive tire noise in no time.

not necessarily, a lot of manufacturers cut back on sound insulation as a way of keeping curb weight down....ever notice everytime someone reveiws a mainstream japanese car road noise gets mentioned?....

[rkisler]

Wasn't he the guy that pushed for IRS in the Expedition/Explorer?

 

Also, it seems that he got window-seated shortly after Mulally came aboard and then retired at a relatively early age (mid 50s).

 

 

 

I'm a process guy, and Parry-Jones seems to have played a key role in implementing better processes; however, I wonder how good those processes would be without Stewart's involvement.

 

I'm OK with the IRS on the Explorer, but the biggest waste of money from my perspective was the development of a new front suspension for the Aviator. The Explorer front suspension did not have the compliance he was looking for. But the money spent for the new suspension could have been better spent on differentiation; even though the Aviator did handle better, most customers didn't notice. (Well.....they didn't much notice the Aviator at all it seems). There were many other cases where the push for vehicle dynamics and overall engineering "perfection" ran beyond the point of affordability and recognition by the customers.

 

Really, Stewart was not so involved when Ford started making major improvements in vehicle dynamics. He did a lot of poking, but there wasn't a good system in place to measure compliance with issues and his views/issues were never part of Ford's product development system; they were all ad hoc.

 

Richard was pushed off to the side in part because he pushed himself so hard it affected his health.

 

So I'm certainly not a total fan, but he did help define the dynamic "personality" of a Ford vs. the "personality" of competitors and to drive that personality into new products. I do not agree with Fordbuyer's overall impression based on my personal experience, but perhaps he had an interaction with Richard that didn't go so well (and I certainly saw a few of those)

[akirby]

Oh no...I understand that...I am advocating for unique skins in Europe and unique skins in N/A. Again, differentiation on the level of the Flex and MKT

 

Exactly. Share the expensive bits, but have unique sheet metal.

 

You're already assuming that the new "Euro" style won't be as popular which I believe will turn out to be a bad assumption.

 

Or are you just saying that's what YOU want regardless of the bottom line to Ford? If that's the case then stop making absolute statements about what Ford should or shouldn't do and just say "I would have preferred" or "I like this".

[theoldwizard]

Im all for the interior "family" similarities...nice to jump from one Ford to another and know EXACTLY where a certain control is.....

That happens to have been one of the very FIRST mandates from Mullaly. (Rumor is, he was in a dark garage and could not find the headlight switch on one vehicle !)

[Ford Jellymoulds]

That happens to have been one of the very FIRST mandates from Mullaly. (Rumor is, he was in a dark garage and could not find the headlight switch on one vehicle !)

 

Don't have that problem with the rocker switches in my old Fords.

 

 

 

[FordBuyer]

Socialists? Really you use that as a defense? Laughable and naive at best.

It is hilarious every time Ford changes the design of something there is a select group of individuals that 'spaz' out as if the world is coming to a end. Yet despite these individuals everything is always okay. A select group of individuals also said the Explorer would be a failure and would never buy one yet now it is selling in excess of 10,000 units most months. Luckily there is always the Jeep Patriot or Liberty for people who still want a box on wheels.

 

 

Good post Patrick. I know a guy who has one of those 1,000 customer mobile paper routes (one of his customers is William Clay Ford Jr.) and he destroyed his Escape in about two years delivering WSJ, NYT, and DFP/DN seven days a week 365 days/year, much of it on back roads in Ann Arbor area. He got a Jeep Liberty and three years out it's still running strong. Perfect vehicle for those who bitch about the feminized Escape even though I see a lot of females driving Liberty also. The Liberty is a little tank and proof is the very mediocre fuel milage.

 

As for the Socialism remark, it's amazing to me how no matter what the subject is, somehow politics gets into thread. And I don't care what the subject is. It could be about best fertilizer to use on your lawn and someone will bring politics into it. It's like the whole world and everything in it is seen through a political prism by some. I'm burnt out by the political bullshit and empty rhetoric on both sides. Like is too fricking short to be sidetracked by it all the time.

[RichardJensen]

he did help define the dynamic "personality" of a Ford vs. the "personality" of competitors and to drive that personality into new products

I've been curious about who led the development of the quadra-link rear suspension. I don't know if it showed up first on the Escort or the Tempo, but it was definitely a superior design than the skittish single lower control arm designs that seemed to be used everywhere else, except VW (beam axle) or Honda (wishbones). IMO, that's where Ford started to differentiate itself from the NA competition in terms of vehicle dynamics.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Just had a look at the Ford of Europe sales for October.

 

Ford Kuga New Escape shape October sales were 4,900 and down on last year in Europe last month.

 

Boxy shaped Ford Escape USA sales in October 19,048 and up on last year.

 

4,900 Kuga New shaped Escape sales the way to go in the US, Ford should have offered both and badged the Kuga as as Lincoln then everybody would have been happy?

Edited November 18, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds

[rkisler]

I've been curious about who led the development of the quadra-link rear suspension. I don't know if it showed up first on the Escort or the Tempo, but it was definitely a superior design than the skittish single lower control arm designs that seemed to be used everywhere else, except VW (beam axle) or Honda (wishbones). IMO, that's where Ford started to differentiate itself from the NA competition in terms of vehicle dynamics.

 

Sorry, don't know the background on this.

[Boss444]

You're already assuming that the new "Euro" style won't be as popular which I believe will turn out to be a bad assumption.

 

No, I'm not.

 

Or are you just saying that's what YOU want regardless of the bottom line to Ford?

 

I never mentioned the "bottom line" nor was it even brought up. If Ford can justify completely different sheet metal for a low volume luxury brand, then I think they could justify unique sheet metal for a high volume model.

 

 

If that's the case then stop making absolute statements about what Ford should or shouldn't do and just say "I would have preferred" or "I like this".

 

I did qualify my statements by using terms like "what I'm advocating for", "maybe this is just my opinion", "I would have preferred", ...All I would have liked to see", and "...I think anyway".

 

As far as I can tell, I didn't make one absolute statement.