2013 Lincoln MKZ Concept Debuts!

[ZanatWork]

Cost aside, I still have those mags from the early Lexus years...and it was the LS and the SC that really represented the brand, while the ES was the "affordable" way to get into the Lexus family. The ES is so bland (or should I say Camry-like?) that it gets in maybe 1-2 issues per year across the bigger mags, yet the LS (and lately the GS and IS) get real stories and more constant attention. Yes, the hybrid thing gets its commercials, but that's for the people that jumped on that trend and haven't hopped back off yet...plus, Toyota will milk every bit of status they have with the "greenies".

 

If Lincoln tries to go FWD-based for the future, they're going to trail, constantly, in some dynamic categories. Audi can survive that, but can Lincoln? Also, should we want them to?

 

Zan, not one to rain on your parade, but you DO realize when released the Ls400 pricing was such that the initial few years cost Toyota an arm and a leg, it was rumoured they lost 10- 15000 PER CAR...why? It got them in the door , it was a great car for the money ( once again I will say LOSS ) and basically began their business plan of getting people into the drivers seat...look where they are now....right up there in pricing with the very same manufacturers they undercut...but their customer base became exceptionally solid and loyal...as for your take on this concept, how can you mistake something this unique for something else? And personally the FWD/RWD argument gets trumped with AWD....if thats the route they decide to take, that said I DO long for some RWD platforms....

[Extreme4x4]

Are you really pulling out the spelling police on me, for one word??

 

Grow up. So sorry that I am posting while in pain.

 

That said, if I "suck" at this game, so do you. So, Lincoln should make squared off luxury cars that people would cry foul on for copying Cadillac (A&S which I cannot stand), or Chrysler (300, which I also cannot stand). You think square equals luxury, I do not. This does not make me any more right than you, as these are our opinions. However, to write off this effort as being subpar, when we don't know much of anything about it, other than what the interior and exterior will look pretty much like, is ridiculous and juvenile.

 

BTW, before stereotyping, it is best that you know of what you speak. This "wannabe tough guy" is a 47-year-old Mom who used to build extreme rockcrawling vehicles, and led extreme runs for local Jamboree's. I have also built cars, and wrenched in our auto repair and towing business. Not that it is any concern of yours, as I have used this login for decades.

 

I have also talked to many people who see no resemblance between these cars. However, there is this guy germeezy, on GMI who could be your long lost brother. After all, he says the MKZ interior is just a reskinned Fusion because a button location on the door panel is the same.

 

Oh, the MKZ prototype is about 3" longer than the Fusion, thus, the overhangs are not the same. If you want to see overhangs, I could give you a link to the Cadillac XTS.

 

I would invite you over to arm wrestle, to prove what a "tough guy" I am, but this "tough" gal knows that she would lose due to a lack of upper body strength (inherent in women). :rolleyes:

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

Lexus made its biggest initial headlines with the LS, their RWD flagship, as it took on and defeated the S-Class and 7-series. The early SC was also a constant winner of comparisons, and THOSE vehicles were the ones that anchored Lexus' reputation, not the over-stuffed Camry known as the ES.

 

Yes, folks, those darned RWD cars that could actually play in the deep water of the luxury segment. You can argue about the ES sales all day, but it's the LS that made the reputation. In this regard, Lincoln is trying to show up to a gunfight with a slingshot. Those ES owners will be wanting a GS (gosh, RWD!) or an LS when they trade up next, and Lexus has the IS (guess which wheels drive it?) for those wanting the smaller sports-sedan experience...or a car to give very spoiled college students, just as the 3-series is.

 

 

You are absolutely correct. The LS made huge headlines by defeating Mercedes and BMW (BMW was the considerably smaller player of the two, back then) at their own game. People wanted a RWD, luxury car with the reliability of a Toyota. Lexus gave them all of that. There just isn't such a latent market of people wanting a FWD luxury car with the reliability of a Ford, today.

 

On a different note, I'm a bit lost on why Lincoln is so insistent on keeping the split grill. Yes, it was big from 1938 to 1941. My grandfather and great uncle would readily recognize this styling touch from those days. They have been dead since the 1970's and 1980's, though. Without the front-end height of the 1938-41 cars, this just doesn't work so well. There is no tall, narrow hood profile available to give it the great swept-back look hat it had on the early Zephyrs and the Continental. The wide, narrow, fine detail grill of the early 1960's world work a lot better and there are living people who would recognize the Lincoln heritage. The pundits and people have spoken again, and again, give this styling detail its notoriously deserved last rites.

[Deanh]

Cost aside, I still have those mags from the early Lexus years...and it was the LS and the SC that really represented the brand, while the ES was the "affordable" way to get into the Lexus family. The ES is so bland (or should I say Camry-like?) that it gets in maybe 1-2 issues per year across the bigger mags, yet the LS (and lately the GS and IS) get real stories and more constant attention. Yes, the hybrid thing gets its commercials, but that's for the people that jumped on that trend and haven't hopped back off yet...plus, Toyota will milk every bit of status they have with the "greenies".

 

If Lincoln tries to go FWD-based for the future, they're going to trail, constantly, in some dynamic categories. Audi can survive that, but can Lincoln? Also, should we want them to?

At the time of the LS release I was at a Jag store...the LS's were 10-15k cheaper yet were veiwed as a luxurious BARGAIN....alot of Jag, Bimmer and Mercedes sales personel lost a lot of sleep....as for potential handling dynamics of a FWD chassis, i wouldnt be concerned, according to inside sources that have actually had hands on, the St focus is beyond brilliant and its STILL being tweeked. The last iteration of the Mondeo was universally lauded and apparently THIS years is a few steps up. If the rumours of Lincoln having different powertrains remains true, dont be surprized to see some eyebrow raising AWD varients in performance models....Im kinda jacked as to where Lincoln is headed, especially based on this concepts appearance....on the road this car would be a head-turner, I cant recall ANY Lincoln doing THAT, for decades....

[2005Explorer]

I have also talked to many people who see no resemblance between these cars. However, there is this guy germeezy, on GMI who could be your long lost brother. After all, he says the MKZ interior is just a reskinned Fusion because a button location on the door panel is the same.

 

Actually there is a lot of interior resemblance between the 2013 Fusion and the MKZ concept. If you can't see any at all your not looking very hard.

 

I'm pretty convinced that on the outside the MKZ will look quite a bit different from the Fusion and will offer more features, but in the end it will still be seen as an expensive Fusion just as the ES as seen as an expensive Camry. I don't really see an issue doing this as your entry level luxury sedan. Lincoln and Lexus are smart going this route, however Lincoln has some work to do when it comes to brand image compared to Lexus.

 

I do think at some point depending on where Ford wants to take Lincoln they might need to have something a little more unique then a re-skinned, better equipped Taurus as a flagship sedan, but they can cross that bridge when they get to it.

[Edstock]

If the rumours of Lincoln having different powertrains remains true, dont be surprized to see some eyebrow raising AWD varients in performance models...

I wonder what the new MKZ will accept as an engine? Hopefully the 3.5EB for a close-to 10:1 weight/power ratio.

 

Can the Fusion take the 3.5 EB? Could we see an SHO Fusion? The 2.0EB will be very quick, but no SHO.

 

 

 

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

If the rumours of Lincoln having different powertrains remains true, dont be surprized to see some eyebrow raising AWD varients in performance models...

 

I haven't been able to find figures for how well the AWD Fords and Lincolns are selling. I don't see many on the lots and my friend who sells new Fords says they aren't that easy to move in Western Montana. What is the percentage of Fusions, Taurusi and Lincolns are being purchased in AWD? Does anyone know, google doesnt seem to?

[Deanh]

I haven't been able to find figures for how well the AWD Fords and Lincolns are selling. I don't see many on the lots and my friend who sells new Fords says they aren't that easy to move in Western Montana. What is the percentage of Fusions, Taurusi and Lincolns are being purchased in AWD? Does anyone know, google doesnt seem to?

read PERFORMANCE models, because aside from snowbelt States the take on regular AWD sedans in Fords lineup is minimal

[Deanh]

I wonder what the new MKZ will accept as an engine? Hopefully the 3.5EB for a close-to 10:1 weight/power ratio.

 

Can the Fusion take the 3.5 EB? Could we see an SHO Fusion? The 2.0EB will be very quick, but no SHO.

in this car I still would love to see the first iteration of the Nano lineup.......the current hp of the 3.5 is 365 in the SHO....I dont see why a 2.7 with some semblance of a durable trans couldnt attain the same HP in a more efficient and lighter drivetrain.....

[rickm70]

One thing to watch for is to see if the new MKZ will be cross-shopped against other luxury brands and not against it's Ford sister. It has always seemed to me that the biggest current competitors to Lincoln is the high line Ford models especially when you have Ford and Lincoln sharing dealerships. Possibly this will move the MKZ into another level and people won't consider a Fusion Titanium when they go in for an MKZ because the Fusion will seem like a plain old mainstream vehicle designed for a different class of people.

 

I really do think as Ford transforms Lincoln they need to make sure that people who consider buying a Lincoln would never be seen in a Ford. Right now you have to wonder how many people went in for an MKS and came out with a Taurus Limited or SHO or went in for an MKX and came out with an Edge Limited or Sport? If anything I'd say the current MKZ is probably less likely to be cross-shopped against the Fusion compared to those other classes. I'd mention the MKT, but I don't think anybody buys those things anyhow.

 

Interesting point you make about cross-shopping. I am looking for a new car within the next year and while I had my mind set on the Mercedes C class coupe, I will definitely wait until I can compare it against the new MKZ. Although the MKZ is a sedan, the interior design has two features similar to the C class that I am looking for; an expansive glass roof and an uncrowded rear seat designed for two passenger comfort. A deciding point for me could be the engine options. The base C class will still likely have the app. 200 hp turbo four requiring premium gas, delivering a 0-60 in the 7+ second range. I would bet that the MKZ base engine will not require premium gas and will outperform the C class 0-60 time. Its gonna be fun testing the driving dynamics of each. Although I really like the design of the new Fusion, I don't think it's for me. I haven't made up my mind whether to keep my current daily driver, a Mustang convertible.

[Deanh]

Interesting point you make about cross-shopping. I am looking for a new car within the next year and while I had my mind set on the Mercedes C class coupe, I will definitely wait until I can compare it against the new MKZ. Although the MKZ is a sedan, the interior design has two features similar to the C class that I am looking for; an expansive glass roof and an uncrowded rear seat designed for two passenger comfort. A deciding point for me could be the engine options. The base C class will still likely have the app. 200 hp turbo four requiring premium gas, delivering a 0-60 in the 7+ second range. I would bet that the MKZ base engine will not require premium gas and will outperform the C class 0-60 time. Its gonna be fun testing the driving dynamics of each. Although I really like the design of the new Fusion, I don't think it's for me. I haven't made up my mind whether to keep my current daily driver, a Mustang convertible.

note to the naysayers....Mercedes and Lincoln mentioned in the same sentence...irrespective, Fords as a whole are being viewed lately in a TOTALLY different light by drivers of said "Image" cars.....Amazing how many customers we get now that pull up in so called "Prestige" vehicles......( read German Imports )

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

in this car I still would love to see the first iteration of the Nano lineup.......the current hp of the 3.5 is 365 in the SHO....I dont see why a 2.7 with some semblance of a durable trans couldnt attain the same HP in a more efficient and lighter drivetrain.....

 

I think the 2.7 can't come soon enough.

 

Let me add to this statement - The EcoBoost really does seem to offer a big advantage for Ford. The competitors are working hard to catch-up. I'd like to seem them build a lead on this technology while they have the clear lead.

Edited January 17, 2012 by TBirdStangSkyliner

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

read PERFORMANCE models, because aside from snowbelt States the take on regular AWD sedans in Fords lineup is minimal

 

Where I've lived in Minnesota, Washington and now Montana, Subaru seems to have a hammer-lock on the AWD car market. It appears to be the same in Alaska, Colorado and Oregon. Michigan is less import friendly, so that might be the one sweet spot in the snow-belt market. Maybe my observations are wrong, I'd like to see sales figures.

Edited January 17, 2012 by TBirdStangSkyliner

[Boss444]

I WANT Lincoln to blow my mind, I WANT Ford's BS to have meaning. I'm more of a "Ford guy" than anyone I've ever met, and it's mostly because I don't just smile and nod when I'm underwhelmed. That's for cronies, or maybe wannabe "tough guys" that put "Extreme" in their forum names.... :shades: The kinds of guys that can't spell "resemblance".

 

That's what they're looking for. A blind following. You are not good at this game. You cannot question and you cannot provide an opinion...unless it's blind praise.

 

You just made their list.

 

Frankly, I don't think the MKZ raises the bar all that much higher than the Fusion did. Sure some of the electronic doo dads will be nice...but from a styling perspective, the MKZ is already behind the 8-ball...because the Fusion set the bar so high. Of course, we haven't viewed the production model yet...so let's hope there are some changes instore. TTAC got it right when they talked about the Fusion and MKZ introductions at Detroit though:

 

TTAC

Edited January 17, 2012 by Boss444

[fou_bleu]

That's what they're looking for. A blind following. You are not good at this game. You cannot question and you cannot provide an opinion...unless it's blind praise.

 

You just made their list.

Re-read he bit you bolded, ZanatWork is NOT a blind follower!

 

Frankly, I don't think the MKZ raises the bar all that much higher than the Fusion did. Sure some of the electronic doo dads will be nice...but from a styling perspective, the MKZ is already behind the 8-ball...because the Fusion set the bar so high. Of course, we haven't viewed the production model yet...so let's hope there are some changes instore. TTAC got it right when they talked about the Fusion and MKZ introductions at Detroit though:

 

TTAC

... So let's quit our bitching about what we don't or won't like about the PRODUCTION model. You ruin your arguments halfway through your posts by forgetting or contradicting them! Sheesh!

Edited January 17, 2012 by Aussie_Ford

[ZanatWork]

Well, I apologize for the "guy" part of my post, ma'am.

 

I didn't say "angular caricature" or "Etch-a-Sketch abortion"...those would've mean Caddy-line. I meant muscular, more formal, finding that blend of visual cues that are the equivalent of a powerful man in a well-tailored suit.

 

My kudos to your 4 wheeling, I was in parts (both normal and performance) for many years, and rock crawlers alone make the Spicer heavy duty drivetrain parts worth keeping around, despite my boss's assurances that there wasn't enough call for them.

 

Here's my summary: the concept's shape is a nice "alternate" to the Fusion's, but the relationship is very clear despite all the stuff we've read and heard about the "brand differentiation". For how little they've accomplished for years, now, they should've just kept the Mercury name and sent Lincoln out to pasture. It will take much more effort and investment than they've shown thus far to make the rhetoric come true...and the rhetoric's been around for a looooong time. If I'm jaded about it, it's because "brand identity" BS has been in constant flow at least my adult life. I read the mags, then I read the sites, and I don't understand why Ford will do everything up to but still short of building a true, world-class rwd platform...even when scores of potential customers call for it.

 

Are you really pulling out the spelling police on me, for one word??

 

Grow up. So sorry that I am posting while in pain.

 

That said, if I "suck" at this game, so do you. So, Lincoln should make squared off luxury cars that people would cry foul on for copying Cadillac (A&S which I cannot stand), or Chrysler (300, which I also cannot stand). You think square equals luxury, I do not. This does not make me any more right than you, as these are our opinions. However, to write off this effort as being subpar, when we don't know much of anything about it, other than what the interior and exterior will look pretty much like, is ridiculous and juvenile.

 

BTW, before stereotyping, it is best that you know of what you speak. This "wannabe tough guy" is a 47-year-old Mom who used to build extreme rockcrawling vehicles, and led extreme runs for local Jamboree's. I have also built cars, and wrenched in our auto repair and towing business. Not that it is any concern of yours, as I have used this login for decades.

 

I have also talked to many people who see no resemblance between these cars. However, there is this guy germeezy, on GMI who could be your long lost brother. After all, he says the MKZ interior is just a reskinned Fusion because a button location on the door panel is the same.

 

Oh, the MKZ prototype is about 3" longer than the Fusion, thus, the overhangs are not the same. If you want to see overhangs, I could give you a link to the Cadillac XTS.

 

I would invite you over to arm wrestle, to prove what a "tough guy" I am, but this "tough" gal knows that she would lose due to a lack of upper body strength (inherent in women). :rolleyes:

[RichardJensen]

I still have those mags

 

it gets in maybe 1-2 issues per year across the bigger mags

 

You are absolutely correct. The LS made huge headlines

 

Magazines? Really? That's the measure of success?

[NickF1011]

Magazines? Really? That's the measure of success?

 

Well, Motor Trend and their ilk likely did account for about a third of all first year Lexus LS sales, so....

 

Point remains, if Lexus didn't offer the ES and RX, there wouldn't be a Lexus anymore.

Edited January 17, 2012 by NickF1011

[2005Explorer]

Magazines? Really? That's the measure of success?

 

I don't think the magazines mean much, but if your trying to re-build a damaged brands reputation some positive media coverage would seem to be necessary.

[NickF1011]

I don't think the magazines mean much, but if your trying to re-build a damaged brands reputation some positive media coverage would seem to be necessary.

 

Which is more improtant when trying to rebuild your brand: Positive gushing from a magazine about a niche product that won't make you hardly any money or a wholly compitent entry level product that will give your struggling dealers the sales volume and profits they need to stay in business?

 

Media coverage thus far on the MKZ concept (aside from the small flap over the little "smoking" incident) seems to be on the positive end of the spectrum, so you can have your lunch and eat it too.

Edited January 17, 2012 by NickF1011

[Edstock]

From Auto Savant.

 

Nice angle on the car, shows the contours of the hip/window sill line. Nice!

 

 

 

[NickF1011]

From Auto Savant.

 

Nice angle on the car, shows the contours of the hip/window sill line. Nice!

 

 

The lower grille detailing doesn't look as fussy and busy in the real world shots either.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Where I've lived in Minnesota, Washington and now Montana, Subaru seems to have a hammer-lock on the AWD car market. It appears to be the same in Alaska, Colorado and Oregon. Michigan is less import friendly, so that might be the one sweet spot in the snow-belt market. Maybe my observations are wrong, I'd like to see sales figures.

 

 

Subaru was the only game in town for AWD cars for many years. That's changing and I expect that Ford will pick up more of that market. Lincoln isn't in the same class as Subaru so, an AWD Lincoln will be aimed at a different buyer.

[akirby]

From Auto Savant.

 

Nice angle on the car, shows the contours of the hip/window sill line. Nice!

 

 

Bah - it's just a Fusion.........anybody can see that.

[Edstock]

Subaru was the only game in town for AWD cars for many years. That's changing and I expect that Ford will pick up more of that market. Lincoln isn't in the same class as Subaru so, an AWD Lincoln will be aimed at a different buyer.

Last week, I was driving a 2K11 Taurus SEL AWD through snow storms in Ottawa and Peterborough. The snow was fairly intense in spots and things were typically winter slippery.

 

I had never driven an AWD sled in the slippery snow. All-season tires, 55-series.

 

 

Absolutely astounding stability — I've never driven any car like it, including some 150,000 miles in various Panthers in Ontario snow-country. That was also the opinion of my passenger, another veteran winter driver, who commented that it sure felt different from a FWD side-hop or a RWD tail-slide: hardly any 'shift' in the sled, just smooth tracking, no slip, no slide. I look forward to trying it out in a parking lot after the next snow; I tried it for a couple of minutes, and the stability programs seem to keep one from being able to do donuts and stuff, but I didn't have time to get really aggressive.