NickF1011 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Back to the topic. :-) Is there any info on the electronics? Says push button gear selection. I'm assuming push button start and keyless entry? I have the 20111. Can't wit to get rid of the 'Oh so retro' remote fob. Safe to assume it will have both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedonut Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks, Nick. Should have also said and rid of the key. Had a 2007 Camry w/keyless entry. Love the Lincoln, and have fewer than 10,000 miles right now but I've been waiting for this one. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Back to the topic. :-) Is there any info on the electronics? Says push button gear selection. I'm assuming push button start and keyless entry? I have the 20111. Can't wit to get rid of the 'Oh so retro' remote fob. Yes, it has push button start and keyless entry). The button to the left of the HVAC controls is the start button (it is a trapezoid-shaped button instead of the "traditional" circle start button). Not sure whether that trapezoid-shaped button will carry over to production, but that's how it is on the concept. Edited January 11, 2012 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sounds like fighting is breaking out at the 2012 NAIAS with this BMW being overheard saying this: German automakers have scoffed at the Cadillac ATS and Lincoln MKZ, saying they aren't real competitors. "We don't produce trucks, nor taxis or buses," BMW's North American chief, Ludwig Willisch, said. "We don't produce sofas on wheels — and we don't take mass-market vehicles and rebadge them as premium." No wonder the Chrysler/Daimler merger failed miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Sounds like fighting is breaking out at the 2012 NAIAS with this BMW being overheard saying this: German automakers have scoffed at the Cadillac ATS and Lincoln MKZ, saying they aren't real competitors. "We don't produce trucks, nor taxis or buses," BMW's North American chief, Ludwig Willisch, said. "We don't produce sofas on wheels and we don't take mass-market vehicles and rebadge them as premium." No wonder the Chrysler/Daimler merger failed miserably. The very fact that BMW's North American chief is making remarks about these competitors speaks volumes about how seriously they actually take them. These two ehicles are both going to cost BMW some volume here. He should probably choose his words a little more carefully too. Edited January 11, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sounds like fighting is breaking out at the 2012 NAIAS with this BMW being overheard saying this: German automakers have scoffed at the Cadillac ATS and Lincoln MKZ, saying they aren't real competitors. "We don't produce trucks, nor taxis or buses," BMW's North American chief, Ludwig Willisch, said. "We don't produce sofas on wheels — and we don't take mass-market vehicles and rebadge them as premium." No wonder the Chrysler/Daimler merger failed miserably. Lovely, BMW customers AND the company are D-bags. Makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 The very fact that BMW's North American chief is making remarks about these competitors speaks volumes about how seriously they actually take them. These two ehicles are both going to cost BMW some volume here. As much as I despise this dude, BMW isn't worried about Caddy or Lincoln . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 As much as I despise this dude, BMW isn't worried about Caddy or Lincoln . Worried? No. But they are certainly aware of the possibility of these new products eating into North American sales, even if it's not a significant portion of them. They should be worried about the effect some of these new American products will have on those American companies' future profit margins though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The very fact that BMW's North American chief is making remarks about these competitors speaks volumes about how seriously they actually take them. These two ehicles are both going to cost BMW some volume here. He should probably choose his words a little more carefully too. Yes, if Cadillac's sales get up to 200,000/year and Lincoln's 150,000/year in next couple years, those extra sales will come out of someone's hide. And I'll tell ya, that giant MB logo on front grille of latest MB luxury sports car is garish in the extreme. The 50's MB sports car next to it looks elegant and very tasteful compared to that garish cartoon of a a vehicle. Read Autoextremists review of NAIAS and especially his review of latest MB offerings. Not real kind to BMW either. He does love Audi and Porsche though. :hyper: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Hmm.. I thought the smilies all over his post indicated that he was joking. And my cousin called from the North Slope. She says you're all a bunch of candy-assed pikers. :hysterical3: If I took RJ's comment out of context, I apologize RJ. My interpretation of the smilies wasn't taken as a joke, more as a slight to me not knowing what cold was like. Again, my apologies. And sorry for the derailment. Now back to the topic. Edited January 11, 2012 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yes, if Cadillac's sales get up to 200,000/year and Lincoln's 150,000/year in next couple years, those extra sales will come out of someone's hide. And I'll tell ya, that giant MB logo on front grille of latest MB luxury sports car is garish in the extreme. The 50's MB sports car next to it looks elegant and very tasteful compared to that garish cartoon of a a vehicle. Read Autoextremists review of NAIAS and especially his review of latest MB offerings. Not real kind to BMW either. He does love Audi and Porsche though. :hyper: It seems to me that BMW has more to worry about right now from Audi. That said, If Cadillac and Lincoln make the necessary improvements to their lines and their dealership experience, they will take a bite out of BMW's sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Do cows in North Dakota have to wear sweaters to keep warm? My point, in case it wasn't clear, is that leather is a natural material and while it may be colder or warmer than cloth for a couple of minutes, it quickly adjusts to your body temperature. If you don't like leather or just don't want it - fine, but don't use temperature as a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 As much as I despise this dude, BMW isn't worried about Caddy or Lincoln . And Toyota wasn't worried about Ford. What did Gandhi say? First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) And Toyota wasn't worried about Ford. What did Gandhi say? But do you honestly believe Lincoln is aiming for BMW in any way? Certainly Caddy is after BMW, but they have not found tremendous success in doing so. I would be confident if I were BMW as well. Edited January 11, 2012 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 But do you honestly believe Lincoln is aiming for BMW in any way? No. But, BMW is vulnerable. Their products are expensive, underpowered (unless you pay through the nose), not fuel efficient, laden with cumbersome technology, they are expensive to maintain, their reliability is not the best. Consider: A stylish product that offers a better value proposition, unapologetic fuel efficiency, 'just works' technology, and affordable maintenance and stellar reliability. There is an opportunity to gradually reduce BMW to its core customers--the go-fast set and snobs, and those which BMW can attract by lease deals. You don't attack BMW's strengths, you attack their numerous weaknesses. -- What was the initial differentiator between the Camry & Fusion? The Fusion was more stylish, more affordable, and had a sportier character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) BMW doesn't have a good hybrid program, they face pressure from CAFE (despite the odious German exception), they'll probably sacrifice a considerable portion of their prestige by foolishly launching BMW branded FWD vehicles (instead of expanding the Mini brand)--and if the German exception (which shouldn't even exist) is not extended, they'll have to meet the same CAFE standards as Ford within the next 6 years. Edited January 11, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 But do you honestly believe Lincoln is aiming for BMW in any way? Not specifically BMW, but they are aiming at the luxury market in general. Any luxury sale for Lincoln is a sale that BMW (or any other luxury players) didn't get. As small as the overall luxury market is, every sale that goes to an opposing brand needs to be taken seriously at least to a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) No. But, BMW is vulnerable. Their products are expensive, underpowered (unless you pay through the nose), not fuel efficient, laden with cumbersome technology, they are expensive to maintain, their reliability is not the best. Consider: A stylish product that offers a better value proposition, unapologetic fuel efficiency, 'just works' technology, and affordable maintenance and stellar reliability. There is an opportunity to gradually reduce BMW to its core customers--the go-fast set and snobs, and those which BMW can attract by lease deals. You don't attack BMW's strengths, you attack their numerous weaknesses. -- What was the initial differentiator between the Camry & Fusion? The Fusion was more stylish, more affordable, and had a sportier character. That makes alarmingly good sense. Although it's hard to penetrate globally, Lincoln will likely never have that opportunity. Edited January 11, 2012 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hey, it's just Wee Willie Keeler's advice applied to this field: "I hit 'em where they ain't" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It seems to me that BMW has more to worry about right now from Audi. That said, If Cadillac and Lincoln make the necessary improvements to their lines and their dealership experience, they will take a bite out of BMW's sales. on a side note Mark, its been interesting to watch what people interested in fords lineups have been driving into the dealership in, and in a lot of cases trading in.....think German....there has been a marked change in how Fords lineup is veiwed/ perceived by image concious import drivers....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) More pictures. This looks fantastic! Initially I didn't like this all too much but its growing on me. They've also done an excellent job of differentiating it from the Fusion... It has nothing in common with the Fusion save for proportions. Even though they both have a "slick" roofline, an almost fastback look, they both execute it differently. My only gripe is still how the beltline, c-pillar, and deck lid interact. Other than that, its perfect. Also here's a snippet of the articleblog that I pulled these photos from: It's a nice idea and there's no doubt that there are always customers out there who want something a little different. But the idea that Lincoln is going to snatch away customers from BMW and Mercedes simply by providing more personalized service is a stretch. Yeah, people like great service, but they also like great cars and great brands. Right now, Lincoln doesn't have any great cars and the brand is barely a shadow of its former self. What a doosh! Lincoln's goal was to never take BMW and Merc customers, he even alluded to this philosophy in his own sentence. The sales of the MKZ show that they are competitive with other entry-level luxury brands. If he believes Lincoln competing with BMW/Merc is an absurdity, then must think Cadillac is devastating. Edited January 12, 2012 by GT-Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 German automakers have scoffed at the Cadillac ATS and Lincoln MKZ, saying they aren't real competitors. "We don't produce trucks, nor taxis or buses," BMW's North American chief, Ludwig Willisch, said. "We don't produce sofas on wheels — and we don't take mass-market vehicles and rebadge them as premium." This qoute is totaly within line of how BMW as a company brands and markets itself, and as such not a surprise. You've got to understand that this is exactly how BMW has for years differntiated itself from Mercedes. BMW as a corporate culture puts a strong emphasis in its historical heritage; motor company came first, followed by motorcycles and automobiles. This is in contrast to Damlier-Benz who is a full line manufacture with a strong commerical divison building trucks and buses. BMW has for years taken the "we don't produce trucks or buses" marketing slant to seperate itself from Mercedes-Benz. So its completely within character for them to apply the same to Ford and GM. And as for the "rebadge" comment it is BMW parroting the mass media... When one has a media advantage one enforces it everytime they get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 When one has a media advantage one enforces it everytime they get. I refer you to the Gandhi quote. I also refer you to the pending platform sharing between BMW & Mini. BMW is in a tough squeeze, likely to get tougher. The NA market isn't going to be theirs for the asking forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I am with you... I just think the qoute was a knee jerk reaction for an executive ingrained in the BMW corporate thinking. I don't think it was a true defensive reaction, but one of arogent indiffernce (applying Mercedes digs at Ford and GM). They are vulnerable, but like Marie Antoinette has yet to understand the revolution at their door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I rode in quite a few BMW taxis when I lived in Italy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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