BORG Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Forbes Article Erm, enjoy? In fact, Ford sells more of its cars to rental agencies and other fleet customers than does any other major carmaker. In 2011 about 32% of the 2.1 million vehicles Ford sold went to fleet customers (45% of Focus sales). GM, by contrast, sold 23% to fleets. Most others were below 10%. Another interesting statistic that challenges conventional wisdom: Ford recalled 3.3 million vehicles in 2011, almost as many as Honda (3.9 million) and Toyota (3.5 million), according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Meanwhile, GM recalled 500,000 vehicles, and Chrysler, usually tagged as having the worst quality among the domestics, recalled 773,000. Edited January 27, 2012 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Forbes is completely wrong. Fleet sales are only good for FMC. Terrible for every other automaker, but A-OK for Ford. And fleet sales are only going to go up with the Taurus PI and Explorer PI. And I haven't a clue how Ford is going to make a dollar selling the Taurus for $23K to police departments. As for the recall paragraph...that was pointless. Sure a massive amount of Fords were recalled in 2011, but what were the model years. Frankly if Ford recalls a million F-150s from 2000 and some other auto maker recalls 250K 2011 model;s, I view the 2011 models as a more accurate indicator of recent quality than the 2000 models. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think they were referring more to rental fleets. Bad analogy with the last gen Focus though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Ford has a much lower percentage of rental fleet sales and more commercial fleet sales than the others. That should drop even more with the new Escape. And the ones they do sell to rental fleets are done at higher prices and trim levels than before. There is no more "fleet dumping" or using fleet sales just to increase overall sales volume. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Forbes is completely wrong. Fleet sales are only good for FMC. Terrible for every other automaker, but A-OK for Ford. And fleet sales are only going to go up with the Taurus PI and Explorer PI. And I haven't a clue how Ford is going to make a dollar selling the Taurus for $23K to police departments. As for the recall paragraph...that was pointless. Sure a massive amount of Fords were recalled in 2011, but what were the model years. Frankly if Ford recalls a million F-150s from 2000 and some other auto maker recalls 250K 2011 model;s, I view the 2011 models as a more accurate indicator of recent quality than the 2000 models. Do you ever have anything positive to say? I'm going to start calling you Matt. Make note of this so you can stop repeating yourself every time you see the word "fleet". When an auto company (i.e. Ford of today) sells vehicles to fleets at a price that doesn't affect the re-sale value of their retail products and it's at a profit, that is a GOOD thing. But, when an auto company (i.e. Ford of the late 90's) dumps vehicles into rental car fleets at a loss, killing resale values, just to artificially inflate sales number to make a stupid "best seller" claim, that is a BAD thing. ¿Comprende? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Forbes is completely wrong. Fleet sales are only good for FMC. Terrible for every other automaker, but A-OK for Ford. And fleet sales are only going to go up with the Taurus PI and Explorer PI. And I haven't a clue how Ford is going to make a dollar selling the Taurus for $23K to police departments. As for the recall paragraph...that was pointless. Sure a massive amount of Fords were recalled in 2011, but what were the model years. Frankly if Ford recalls a million F-150s from 2000 and some other auto maker recalls 250K 2011 model;s, I view the 2011 models as a more accurate indicator of recent quality than the 2000 models. note to boss....the Crown vic sells NOW for > 23k.......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Ford has a much lower percentage of rental fleet sales and more commercial fleet sales than the others. That should drop even more with the new Escape. And the ones they do sell to rental fleets are done at higher prices and trim levels than before. There is no more "fleet dumping" or using fleet sales just to increase overall sales volume. EXACTAMUNDO....note the year 2011........get rid of old model Focuii and old model Escapes...and Rental companies buy bargains in BULK, with the odd higherline model, nothing else....the landscape is about to change, the new Focus #s to Rental companies has dropped substantially due to $....plenty of Kias and Versas though....and Commercial Fleet sales are highly profitable.... Edited January 27, 2012 by Deanh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Wtf, Ford made 20 billion, so how that. "in trouble"?. Vw and Toyota are the #1 fleet in Europe and most of Asia, are they in trouble?. Edited January 27, 2012 by Fgts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Wtf, Ford made 20 billion, so how that. "in trouble"?. Vw and Toyota are the #1 fleet in Europe and most of Asia, are they in trouble?. in some peoples eyes ( and for the life of me I dont know why ) "Fleet" seems to be associated with "lack of profit"....which is grossly wrong, any comapny can get a "Fleet" number if they buy 5 or more vehicles...but some have the perception ford should just get pout of the "Fleet" business....so just hand those sales to GM and Dodge right?....Fleet business does NOT cheapen the Brand....not sure I can say the same about Rental though, although i must admit to receiving sales from people that have rented Fords and had the week test drive....so in moderation I believe renatl sales CAN be beneficial. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Not all fleet sales are equal. Long term fleet buys don't affect resale values. My local Post office still has a bunch of Aerostars and Windstars delivering the mail. Most of the utilities around Pittsburgh use Super Duty trucks and keep them for years. The City fleet still has some C-900's from the '80s. Most police and taxi fleet vehicles get used up and don't compete with regular cars on the resale market. My neighbor is a sales rep and his last two company cars have been a Fusion and an Escape. He gets a new car about every 3 years/50,000 miles. Daily rentals are a mixed bag. I see that Zipcar is using Escapes and Focuses now. That is an opportunity to get some new prospects behind the wheel of a Ford since Zipcar has traditionally only offered foreign nameplates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Another article of numbers only with no persective or context. Simply not enough data to make an informed decision. As for rentals, renting a vehicle you might be interested in purchasing can be an excellent idea to get a feel opposed to a test drive and pressure at the lot. I don't want to waste anyone's time so I feeel that's a viable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 As GM learned a few years ago, it's not how many you sell, it's how much you make and by all accounts, Ford is crying all the way to the bank... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "Fleet" seems to be associated with "lack of profit"....which is grossly wrong, any comapny can get a "Fleet" number if they buy 5 or more vehicles...but some have the perception ford should just get pout of the "Fleet" business....so just hand those sales to GM and Dodge right?....Fleet business does NOT cheapen the Brand....not sure I can say the same about Rental though, although i must admit to receiving sales from people that have rented Fords and had the week test drive....so in moderation I believe renatl sales CAN be beneficial. Once again, Deanh is the voice of reason. Ford has continually demonstrated commitment to its customers in the commercial, rental, and government fleet markets and I expect that to continue. Mutually beneficial relationships between Ford and customers in all three sectors are the norm. Unfortunately, misconceptions about the fleet management industry continue to abound among general interest automotive and business publications. As a former fleet manager, I find that irksome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Funny how the author suggests that Ford is fleet dumping but the reality could be that fleets want Ford product.. perhaps rental companies are getting requests from customers wanting to rent Ford products? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think Forbes grabbed defeat from the jaws of journalistic victory. It's just a piss poor article that misses the much bigger and more important picture: Ford screwed up. Focus's 45% fleet number was a result of Ford needing to fulfill outstanding rental fleet contracts with the vehicle. The story is that Focus's retail sales have been weak because of the poor quality perception (DSG, MFT) and poor marketing. This statistic was not a result of Ford dumping on lots - it was Ford not moving them off the lots. Big difference. The bad behaviour of the past has not returned. However, Ford has screwed up one of its most important product launches in modern history. The transmission, the MFT system, the general size/capacity too small... The product was and in some ways still is weak. And the marketing was worse. Hopefully the Fusion will wipe all those memories away this year. And hopefully someone at Ford got fired over the Focus. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Ford makes a ton of commerical trucks, something the media snobs like Forbes look down upon, or ignore. And how can someone get fired for a global design? Fat Americans may say too small, but oveseas the car is a hit. Also, compacts overall are down in past few months. It just those that expected an AWD Turbo Focus RS for $19,999 have an axe to grind. The issues with the trans and MFT are user hysterics, and marketing? What the fuhck? Again, expecting $3500 rebates at Job 1? Edited January 27, 2012 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Fleet sales at Ford were discussed on a recent Autoline Detroit. The fleet market has to be divided into two categories, commercial and daily rental. Commercial fleet sales (selling trucks/vans to AT&T, FTD, Orkin, etc.) can be quite profitable. Selling cars to Avis and Hertz, less so. The majority of Ford's fleet sales are commercial. The guy who write this article didn't bother to do any research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 How does this article suck? Let me count the ways: In fact, Ford sells more of its cars to rental agencies and other fleet customers than does any other major carmaker. This sentence implies that Ford sells primarily to rental agencies. It does not. that means carmakers earn less profit on those sales A valid concern, if Ford's revenue and profit per unit sold trailed the industry average. They don't. Meanwhile, GM recalled 500,000 vehicles, and Chrysler, usually tagged as having the worst quality among the domestics, recalled 773,000 What vehicles were recalled? What years? Can't be bothered with that data? Then don't use those numbers. Ford muddled through an out-of-court restructuring Muddled? That's the verb you use? This is another instance of damning with faint praise. It implies that Ford botched their restructuring. Huge profits from Ford’s trucks and big SUVs, as well as its Ford Credit unit, made it easy to overlook Ford’s sagging car business, losses in Europe Restructuring Europe was a top priority for Ford in the late 90s. It was NOT overlooked. Things started to go bad in 2000 Um, it was actually several years earlier, but whatever. Meanwhile, competitors are stronger. GM and Chrysler are back on their feet, turning out great vehicles and profits, too. Toyota and Honda are reloading their arsenals with a wave of new products coming in 2012. Nissan has been steadily growing in the U.S., and Volkswagen is threatening. Gah. This is horrible journalism. This is brain-dead cut and paste slack job writing. Sloppy sloppy sloppy. I mean this is just phone-it-in journalism at its worst. Spend hours culling a few small facts (fleet sales), and then cram a lot of filler material into the rest of the article in order to pad out your word count. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Ford muddled through an out-of-court restructuring It's sly innuendo, because, the word "restructuring" is most often combined with a court order, pertaining to Chapter 11 and is generally referring to a corporate corpse, like GM or Chrysler. As a sly pejorative, it's A+, the blade's so sharp, you don't feel it. Ford did not go through an out-of-court restructuring, it re-financed its operations and restructured. When you recall what Bill Ford got happening, "muddled" is preposterous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Do you ever have anything positive to say? I'm going to start calling you Matt. Make note of this so you can stop repeating yourself every time you see the word "fleet". When an auto company (i.e. Ford of today) sells vehicles to fleets at a price that doesn't affect the re-sale value of their retail products and it's at a profit, that is a GOOD thing. But, when an auto company (i.e. Ford of the late 90's) dumps vehicles into rental car fleets at a loss, killing resale values, just to artificially inflate sales number to make a stupid "best seller" claim, that is a BAD thing. ¿Comprende? LOL... There was nothing negative in my post. note to boss....the Crown vic sells NOW for > 23k.......... And? The Taurus isn't an old, out of date dinosaur. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ALERT...the lady that initiated the article has responded to a comment I made on this article on Autoblog.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 LOL... There was nothing negative in my post. And? The Taurus isn't an old, out of date dinosaur. so where did you exactly come to the conclusion 23k is what the Taurus will be sold for?.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Forbes is completely wrong. Fleet sales are only good for FMC. Terrible for every other automaker, but A-OK for Ford. And fleet sales are only going to go up with the Taurus PI and Explorer PI. And I haven't a clue how Ford is going to make a dollar selling the Taurus for $23K to police departments. LOL... There was nothing negative in my post. There is, but it's really slippery innuendo, quite good, actually, for slimage, or more properly, pejorative implication, LOL. The sarcasm implicit in " Fleet sales are only good for FMC. Terrible for every other automaker, but A-OK for Ford." Of course you should know that fleet sales for other brands can be fine, as well. Considering the sarcasm is directed at Ford, that's negative. The "A-OK" is a nice piece of condescension, as well. Then after your statement of how "Fleet sales are only good for FMC".you contend how sales of the Taurus PI and Explorer PI are going to go up, but that Ford can't make any money at what you say the PI sells for. Well, that's negative, implying that Ford's sales success will cost it money. LOL, we have a troll. Thanks for playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Do you ever have anything positive to say? I'm going to start calling you Matt. Make note of this so you can stop repeating yourself every time you see the word "fleet". When an auto company (i.e. Ford of today) sells vehicles to fleets at a price that doesn't affect the re-sale value of their retail products and it's at a profit, that is a GOOD thing. But, when an auto company (i.e. Ford of the late 90's) dumps vehicles into rental car fleets at a loss, killing resale values, just to artificially inflate sales number to make a stupid "best seller" claim, that is a BAD thing. ¿Comprende? No, he doesn't have anything positive to say because he's a troll. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) ALERT...the lady that initiated the article has responded to a comment I made on this article on Autoblog.... Good for you. I can see 'Luke' was ready with his simple 'facts' like the MFT and DCT argument although the 'bad dashboard' was somewhat original and simply wrong. No use arguing or as we say here at work 'Picking the pepper out of the flys$it'. I thought the original article was 2011 Foci not 2012? Your counter-point held weight considering the 2012 numbers. If an article uses numbers and only numbers will only be open to scrutiny.ack. Correction: It wasn't 'Luke'. It looks like he's got your back. Edited January 28, 2012 by Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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