rkisler Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 back to the fiesta, I wonder how many changes will be made to the fiesta to make Us and ROW more similar? if any. there is a opportunity to bring the US fiesta's wieght more in line with the ROW fiesta's weight. US's 2600lbs vs ROW 2400lbs The thing I'm not sure of is the Fiesta cycle. I'm assuming the next-generation Fiesta will be internally developed now that we're going through the Mazda divorce? The timing of that replacement will have a lot to do with the implementation of any structural changes like commonizing the front structure. At this point, it's not really necessary as the unique tooling is already in place on both sides of the pond. You'd have to ask what exactly the benefits would be during the remaining cycle if you made the addtional investment -- I'm having trouble seeing the carrot. I'm sure there are other areas that will be commonized. Seats in particular have already been mentioned by Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 back to the fiesta, I wonder how many changes will be made to the fiesta to make Us and ROW more similar? if any. there is a opportunity to bring the US fiesta's wieght more in line with the ROW fiesta's weight. US's 2600lbs vs ROW 2400lbs If anything the US based car gets more sound deadening etc to justify its higher costs...thus the higher weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Not unless they change the U.S. crash standards. I don't think that will be nessessary, the mazda2 meets the standards, the way the fiesta was added to the North American market, I would assume, in order to minimize risk Ford NA overlaid the ROW fiesta to meet NA standards. while it would have been better to use higher strength steel in the body where extra strength was needed, they may have simply use thicker gauge steel in places to save money and more importantly time. in theory. The thing I'm not sure of is the Fiesta cycle. I'm assuming the next-generation Fiesta will be internally developed now that we're going through the Mazda divorce? The timing of that replacement will have a lot to do with the implementation of any structural changes like commonizing the front structure. At this point, it's not really necessary as the unique tooling is already in place on both sides of the pond. You'd have to ask what exactly the benefits would be during the remaining cycle if you made the addtional investment -- I'm having trouble seeing the carrot. I'm sure there are other areas that will be commonized. Seats in particular have already been mentioned by Ford. the fiesta,or it architecture is an improvement of the previous Fiesta architecture, the original Mazda2 sold in Europe was a version of the Fiesta, decoupling the Fiesta from the mazda2 should not be difficult. the Global fiesta debuted in September 2008, the refresh is in Q1 2013. that 4 years from intro to restyle. the restyle may be the right time to do what could not be done in 2010, bring the ROW fiesta up to ALL global standards, while giving it a heavy restyle. also the impact the of the other less plentiful B2 variants,Eco sport and B-max, could have on this. Of course this is all speculation, how much trouble is it to maintain the differences between models, how much of these safety changes will be carried over to the next fiesta due in 2015, and how much will it cost to make those changes, which will do the same thing anyway. If anything the US based car gets more sound deadening etc to justify its higher costs...thus the higher weight this is true, but understand the US focus and EU Focus are very close in weight, I think the because the US fiesta missed design freeze of the ROW Fiesta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) back to the fiesta, I wonder how many changes will be made to the fiesta to make Us and ROW more similar? if any. there is a opportunity to bring the US fiesta's wieght more in line with the ROW fiesta's weight. US's 2600lbs vs ROW 2400lbs The 6 speed DCT and the 4 door model with trunk accounts for most of the weight gain. The 2400 lb weight you mentioned is more accurate for the 3 door 1.25 liter version with manual transmission - a model not for sale in the US. The Asian Fiesta just went into production at Thailand and Taiwan and uses the 1.6 liter engine, 4 door body style and DCT and weights 1140~1190 kg depending on model/options, which is basically about 2,550~2,600 lbs. Same as the US-spec model. The updated European spec Fiesta will adopt the DCT transmission so I think it will end up being about the same weight as the US/Asian Fiesta. Mazda2 weights a bit less mainly because it has different engine and old fashioned 4 speed auto... not because the US-spec Fiesta added structural weight. As for the next model cycle, I think the Fiesta is going to stick around a little bit longer than normal. The car was originally conceived as European market only car and later adapted for One-Ford global consumption (The Chinese market Fiesta is really a Mazda2 with Fiesta body so has to be considered separately). Because the car is just now entering production at India/Thailand/Taiwan (albeit the improved version based on US-spec model), one would assume that they will stay unchanged for at least 3 years. The European midcycle update was delayed while Ford ironed out the changes to the car for the Americas. Edited March 19, 2012 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 this is true, but understand the US focus and EU Focus are very close in weight, I think the because the US fiesta missed design freeze of the ROW Fiesta. I didn't bother to check the specs, but is it possible that the weight of the global Focus was actually increased to meet the U.S. crash standards, therefore the global Fiesta would be closer to the U.S. weight than the European weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I didn't bother to check the specs, but is it possible that the weight of the global Focus was actually increased to meet the U.S. crash standards, therefore the global Fiesta would be closer to the U.S. weight than the European weight? maybe. the Focus gained 200 lbs from C1 to "C2". I remember when I saw the Fiesta at the 2010 NAIAS and the car had welded in reinforcements above the Rear frame rails, and above the rear floorpan. these addition were not present in the production car. We assumed there were some changes made to the Car to meet US standards, according to WArds http://m.wardsauto.com/ar/ford_fiesta_changes_100428 “The way we looked at the program right from the start, we knew the key (changes) were for federalization,” says Steve Pintar, Fiesta chief program engineer. “It has to be legal, so we had to adopt Canadian and U.S. federal safety standards.” For instance, U.S. regulations required a switch from single- to dual-stage airbags. Engineers also adjusted the bumper beams to meet requirements outlined by the U.S. and Canadian governments. “The height (requirements) for the bumper beam and the coverage of the beam for low- and high-speed (collisions) is just different,” Pintar says. It’s not that one is better or one is worse.” The emissions system had to be re-engineered to meet stringent U.S. and Canadian standards. Changes included recalibrating onboard powertrain diagnostics and reducing evaporative emissions, he says. maybe the changes would save as much weight as I thought they could, but It may provide an opportunity to unify the Design between the US and the ROW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I like the Fiesta. I've driven one a number of times and considered buying one. One of the reasons I didn't was because of the red instrumentation on the dashboard. I've never been a fan of it and maybe I'm ignorant as to the benefits, but I can't understand what the allure of it is. It just plain bothers me. If it's removed for the refresh - all the better! When considering the Fiesta I inquired and sampled a totally loaded SES model. I've never had a sunroof but somehow I don't think the opening is supposed to start near the back of the head. This seems to go against the whole point of having one but perhaps it's a result of the extreme angle on the windshield... I've test driven the Focus as well. I was more impressed with the Fiesta. I see a Fiesta and I like it - even in it's entry-level form it comes across as a much more expensive car than the most blinged-out version of it's competitors. When I test drove a Focus I couldn't get into it as easy as the Fiesta. Open the front driver/passenger doors and look at how much the dashboard interferes in getting in/out of the car. The amount of space left to get in is almost comical. Now Ford teases everyone with the B-Max. I have a good idea as to why it's not coming here. It would not only eat into Fiesta sales but those of the Focus as well. It looks that good! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Now Ford teases everyone with the B-Max. I have a good idea as to why it's not coming here. It would not only eat into Fiesta sales but those of the Focus as well. It looks that good! I understand what you are saying but the price point of the B-max would be high enough to not be too harmful to the fiesta and the the volumes on the focus are high enough to withstand a B-Max attack on it. I feel that the overall increase in sales would outweigh any overlap in the lineup, I beieve the B-max would bring in alot of conquest sales to ford dealerships, that is a very good thing for Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I agree, the way I see it is if Ford wants to increase market share, its going to have to be by product, and they need more of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I beieve the B-max would bring in alot of conquest sales to ford dealerships, that is a very good thing for Ford. I second that. B-Max, after a few of them get out in the field and people really see the unique design, will draw people into a Ford dealership that might not otherwise ever visit — IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 One of the reasons I didn't was because of the red instrumentation on the dashboard. I've never been a fan of it and maybe I'm ignorant as to the benefits, but I can't understand what the allure of it is. It just plain bothers me. If it's removed for the refresh - all the better! I like my red on Mustang instrumentation, but the rest of it is the typical green color on the radio..and not to mention I can change the colors if I want LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I've never liked red or orange. I remember when the first PCs came out you could either get an orange monitor or green (text only) and I always picked green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I completely disagree about the B-max, a hiked up Fiesta minivan with some hideous design problems is not appealing. Now a fiesta based Crossover that isn't ugly, cheap, nor gimmicky would be nice. Edited March 22, 2012 by BORG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I like my red on Mustang instrumentation, but the rest of it is the typical green color on the radio..and not to mention I can change the colors if I want LOL I usually keep my ambient lighting on red. Though it does change to purple during football season. :cheerleader: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I usually keep my ambient lighting on red. Though it does change to purple during football season. :cheerleader: LOL Thats the one thing I was shocked at when I moved down here....all the Purple around here...you guys are hard core! Where I come from you have Pro Sports overload....Giants, Jets, Eagles, Devils, Islanders, Rangers, Knicks, Nets, Yankees, Mets, Phillys...etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 LOL Thats the one thing I was shocked at when I moved down here....all the Purple around here...you guys are hard core! Where I come from you have Pro Sports overload....Giants, Jets, Eagles, Devils, Islanders, Rangers, Knicks, Nets, Yankees, Mets, Phillys...etc etc... Yeah well, we are limited on our franchises...especially the ones who are any good. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I completely disagree about the B-max, a hiked up Fiesta minivan with some hideous design problems is not appealing. You're entitled to your opinion. Please specify the "hideous design problems", because I don't see any "hideous" problems. You might not like the way it looks, but, again, where's the "hideous design problems"? Considering how the elimination of a stationary "B" pillar requires very careful engineering, the problems probably reside in your mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I completely disagree about the B-max, a hiked up Fiesta minivan with some hideous design problems is not appealing. Now a fiesta based Crossover that isn't ugly, cheap, nor gimmicky would be nice. your opinions are so strong. Is it OK if we disagree? having chioces can be a good thing. even if 90% of the general public dislikes the Flex or any other vehicle that does not mean there isn't a large enough market to support it. 10% of the US population is 31 million people, that is larger than alot of markets in the world. LincolnV, Edstock, myself, and other think it is a good product, do we have your permission to disagree with you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 LincolnV, Edstock, myself, and other think it is a good product, do we have your permission to disagree with you? The fact that the B-pillar is absent and the front passenger seat folds down makes the ability to carry large/long objects that much easier. In addition, I think the B-Max would be a huge hit for young families. Access to child seats in the back is so much easier than any other small vehicle. I hope Ford reconsiders bringing it to North America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) If anything at least it would give the consumer who wants a Honda Fit type vehicle have another choice. Edited March 22, 2012 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 One of the reasons I didn't was because of the red instrumentation on the dashboard. I've never been a fan of it and maybe I'm ignorant as to the benefits, but I can't understand what the allure of it is. It just plain bothers me. A given intensity of red light is supposed to affect your night vision less than a given intensity of the other major colors. That's probably the theory behind it. However, the intensity of light required to discern details in green is lower than for red, so I figure it's probably a wash if you can adjust the brightness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You're entitled to your opinion. Please specify the "hideous design problems", because I don't see any "hideous" problems. Only design aspect I can pickout on the car is the front end is entirely too busy with 3 openings on it...I'd much rather see an Fiesta ST or Fusion opening on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I usually keep my ambient lighting on red. Though it does change to purple during football season. :cheerleader: I thought the Lakers were a basketball team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Borg I think is CUV inclined Fiesta based EcoSport maybe....Borg? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XZtsLUH0_s&feature=youtu.be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 I loathe red instrumentation...makes me fell all hot, sweaty, bothered...that or past childhood traumas for my mothers BMW's...even with some Mazda6 I had as rental I would dim down the red instrumentation as much as possible because it was just garrish to me. Saturn had a pee-orange yellow that wasn't very attractive either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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